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‘Pakistan’s glaciers will melt by 2035’

Some Himalayan glaciers are advancing rather than melting, study finds

Researchers have discovered that contrary to popular belief half of the ice flows in the Karakoram range of the mountains are actually growing rather than shrinking.

It challenges claims made in a 2007 report by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that the glaciers would be gone by 2035.


Although the head of the panel Dr Rajendra Pachauri later admitted the claim was an error gleaned from unchecked research, he maintained that global warming was melting the glaciers at "a rapid rate", threatening floods throughout north India.
Some Himalayan glaciers are advancing rather than melting, study finds - Telegraph


Karakoram glaciers unaffected by global warming


LONDON - Glaciers nestling under the shadow of Diran and Rakaposhi, two towering peaks in the Karakoram Range of northern Pakistan, remain impervious to global warming and have even grown slightly in recent years, suggests a new study.
Bucking regional and global trends that indicate ice loss, French glaciologists have confirmed that glaciers in Himalayan Karakoram have remained impervious to global warming and climate change.

Karakoram glaciers unaffected by global warming

what i believe is on the name of global warming some people in pakistan are also trying to grab some $$
What a Stupid Writer. The Karakoram Mountain Range and Himalaya Mountain Ranges r Different. The Himalaya Range Ends in G-B and starts the Karakorum Range. Rather there is a Point where all these 3 mountain Ranges meet ie Hindu Kush, Karakorum, Himalaya.

@krash
 
What a Stupid Writer. The Karakoram Mountain Range and Himalaya Mountain Ranges r Different. The Himalaya Range Ends in G-B and starts the Karakorum Range. Rather there is a Point where all these 3 mountain Ranges meet ie Hindu Kush, Karakorum, Himalaya.

@krash

There's a general confusion when it comes to the Himalayas, the Karakoram and the Hindu Kush. It began in early history when people believed that the mountains in the Karakoram, the Hindu Kush and the Himalaya were all part of a single massive mountain range. Back then the Karakoram and the Hindu Kush were defined as sub-ranges within the Himalaya. However both the Karakoram and the Hindu Kush were later on realized to be separate and independent proper ranges (proper range: an independent mountain range) in of themselves with sub-ranges of their own, e.g. the Batura Muztagh sub-range of the Karakoram (interestingly the Karakoram, a long time ago, were also called the Muztagh range). This is when it got even more confusing; now there were three proper ranges, the Karakoram, the Hindu Kush and the Himalaya, which which were grouped together to be called the 'Great Himalayas'. It got even more confusing because then the proper Himalaya were sub divided into three groups; the lower (or lesser), the middle and the greater Himalayas, all running parallel to each other and differentiated by their heights. But the confusion has yet only begun! Many other smaller ranges in central Asia and China are also at times still included in the Himalayas.

In short, there still is no clear definition of what constitutes the Himalayas and what does not. If you are talking on actual facts, topography and geography then yes the Karakoram and the Hindu Kush are proper ranges separate from the Himalaya (they don't even look alike). But if you're just looking at a map and want to clump all these mountains that you see together just because they happen to be laying together then everything for you is the Himalayas.

I took this picture at the point which @Umair Nawaz mentioned, the place the Karakoram, the Himalaya and the Hindu Kush meet. The mountains on the left with the darker plain brown color belong to the Hindu Kush, the mountains on the right, with the lighter brown color and golden blotches belong to the Himalaya and the taller, darker (grey-ish black) mountain in the middle belongs to the Karakoram. The river Indus divides them.

169127_10150132782233319_8171404_o_zps2f57043b.jpg


If someone wants a detailed overview of the nomenclature confusion then this is a pretty good read which tries to define the Himalayas:
Defining Himalaya

Following is an even more interesting read on how our mountains got the awesome names that they do, instead of nonsensical names such as "Mt. Everest", "Mt. Mckinley" or "Mt. Godwin Austin" as they tried to.

KARAKORAM NOMENCLATURE | Himalayan Club
 
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This is global warming and environmentalist hysteria. By 2035? Glaciers would have to rapidly melt for that to ever be achieved.

The minister said in the past 100 years, the average temperature of the world had increased by one degree centigrade.

This is false, and a propaganda factoid used by the globalist crowd quite often. The glaciers are at high altitude and are subject to extremely cold temperatures during winter.

Top climate scientists admit global warming forecasts were wrong - Telegraph
 
This is global warming and environmentalist hysteria. By 2035? Glaciers would have to rapidly melt for that to ever be achieved.



This is false, and a propaganda factoid used by the globalist crowd quite often. The glaciers are at high altitude and are subject to extremely cold temperatures during winter.

Top climate scientists admit global warming forecasts were wrong - Telegraph

The glaciers are actually rapidly melting. The Mt. Everest glacier is the biggest example. The glacial retreat in the Korakaram has been less rapid than other places but has still been very alarming. The Baltoro, the Biafo and Siachin have all retreated or shrunk quite a bit. I had a slide show of pictures of these glacier over the years but I can't seem to find it right now.
 
There's a general confusion when it comes to the Himalayas, the Karakoram and the Hindu Kush. It began in early history when people believed that the mountains in the Karakoram, the Hindu Kush and the Himalaya were all part of a single massive mountain range. Back then the Karakoram and the Hindu Kush were defined as sub-ranges within the Himalaya. However both the Karakoram and the Hindu Kush were later on realized to be separate and independent proper ranges (proper range: an independent mountain range) in of themselves with sub-ranges of their own, e.g. the Batura Muztagh sub-range of the Karakoram (interestingly the Karakoram, a long time ago, were also called the Muztagh range). This is when it got even more confusing; now there were three proper ranges, the Karakoram, the Hindu Kush and the Himalaya, which which were grouped together to be called the 'Great Himalayas'. It got even more confusing because then the proper Himalaya were sub divided into three groups; the lower (or lesser), the middle and the greater Himalayas, all running parallel to each other and differentiated by their heights. But the confusion has yet only begun! Many other smaller ranges in central Asia and China are also at times still included in the Himalayas.

In short, there still is no clear definition of what constitutes the Himalayas and what does not. If you are talking on actual facts, topography and geography then yes the Karakoram and the Hindu Kush are proper ranges separate from the Himalaya (they don't even look alike). But if you're just looking at a map and want to clump all these mountains that you see together just because they happen to be laying together then everything for you is the Himalayas.

I took this picture at the point which @Umair Nawaz mentioned, the place the Karakoram, the Himalaya and the Hindu Kush meet. The mountains on the left with the darker plain brown color belong to the Hindu Kush, the mountains on the right, with the lighter brown color and golden blotches belong to the Himalaya and the taller, darker (grey-ish black) mountain in the middle belongs to the Karakoram. The river Indus divides them.

169127_10150132782233319_8171404_o_zps2f57043b.jpg


If someone wants a detailed overview of the nomenclature confusion then this is a pretty good read which tries to define the Himalayas:
Defining Himalaya

Following is an even more interesting read on how our mountains got the awesome names that they do, instead of nonsensical names such as "Mt. Everest", "Mt. Mckinley" or "Mt. Godwin Austin" as they tried to.

KARAKORAM NOMENCLATURE | Himalayan Club
Dont u think these Mountain should be called with their real Names that locals gave them Like Chogori meaning King of Mountain in Local Language for K-2?
 
^@krash

There is a natural cycle of thaw in summer and freeze in winter. These glaciers have existed for millions of years, they aren't going to melt by 2035.
 
its called korakoram anomaly; recently it has been called into question. most agree that more studies are needed to confirm whether glaciers are growing or shrinking. one thing is certain that there will always be condensaton in the winter which will provide fresh water for consumption during summers. with higher temp. there will be more evaporation hence more rains. with higher co2 in air there will always be more of it available to be fixed into plants, this is already shown on the southern edges of sahara with an increased bush cover.
our biggest hope for sustainable water supplies will probably cheap technology to desalinate ocean water. just the other day there were news of single molecule thick carbon filters that could bring drastic reductions to the price of reverse osmosis.
 
Dont u think these Mountain should be called with their real Names that locals gave them Like Chogori meaning King of Mountain in Local Language for K-2?

I do. In the appendix of the second link the whole Karakoram Conference report has been given. If you go through the notes you'll realize that where a local name of any mountain, pass or valley was present it was always adopted. If there wasn't then a name was derived from the most major adjacent feature which did have a local name. The only exceptions to this were K2, Broad Peak and the Muztagh Tower (although Muztagh Tower is clearly heavily influenced from the local language except for the word "tower"). This was mainly because these three peaks did not have any local names.

K2's naming is actually very interesting. Until K2's discovery by the westerners few people, including the locals, knew of its existence, the same went for the Gasherbrums and Broad Peak as well. Nobody in their right mind ever wanted to walk across the Baltoro Glacier (local cultures had myths that beyond the snout of the Baltoro lay the place where demons lived, others thought it was where fairies lived and then add a hundred more myths). You might think that you could see K2 and her sister peaks from other mountains closer to the inhabited valleys but you'd be wrong. These mountains are completely curtained off from the rest of the world by other seriously tall mountains all around them. It was only in 2010 that a place (Iqbal point or the vertical point) was discovered North-East of the Hushe valley from where you can actually see K2 in any appreciable way on very clear days, but you have to climb 6000 meters to get there (!!!). Basically no one knew that these mountains were actually there (imagine that!). Due to this these mountains had practically no mention or significance in the local cultures and thus remained unnamed.

In the 1950s, under the Great Trigonometric Survey, Thomas Montgomerie was sent to mark out the most prominent features of the now Northern Pakistan. While on Mount Harmukh (in Indian occupied Kashmir) he observed two very tall and prominent peaks far off in the distance. He drew a sketch of the peaks and for record keeping designated the seemingly taller (only because it was closer) one K1 and the second K2, where the 'K' stood for the Karakoram and the '1' and '2' stood for a numerical designation. This is that sketch:

K2_by_Montgomery.jpg




The designation for K1 held for a little but soon gave way to its actual name; Masherbrum. Masherbrum was/is a very well known and observable mountain for the locals and thus had a name. The second unknown peak, however, did not and so the designation 'K2' stuck around. Numerous attempts have been made to give it a name in one of the local languages ('Chogori' is one of them) but none have stuck (the locals themselves call the beauty K2). Some narcissistic white men tried their best at getting it named Mt. Godwin Austin but that failed too.

My opinion on this matter was shaped by a low level mountaineer's blog who's name I can't remember. I'll paraphrase. In his opinion the designation K2 perfectly defines the very nature of the mountain i.e. the name K2 is perfect exactly because it is not a name and just a designation. Giving K2 a name will be an attempt at humanizing it when it is the epitome of inhuman and beyond human. It's character is savage, wrathful, unforgiving, terrifying, and most importantly unaccepting of the so-called might of the human spirit, will and arrogance, a character which cannot be explained let alone summarized in a human name. And thus any human-given-name will be disrespectful and arrogant.

I can't agree more.

If you notice it, the 'persona' or the 'ring' that the word "K2" gives off can't, at least for me, even be described in sentences.

^@krash

There is a natural cycle of thaw in summer and freeze in winter. These glaciers have existed for millions of years, they aren't going to melt by 2035.

True, however, the rate of melting in the past few decades has far exceeded anything that we have ever seen in the planet's history. I'm talking about millions of years as observed through scientific means. The retreats which have occurred in a few years used to happen over hundreds of years. I for one am not willing to take any chances.
 
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I do. In the index of the second link the whole Karakoram Conference report has been given. If you go through the notes you'll realize that where a local name of any mountain, pass or valley was present it was always adopted. If there wasn't then a name was derived from the most major adjacent feature which did have a local name. The only exceptions to this were K2, Broad Peak and the Muztagh Tower (although Muztagh Tower is clearly heavily influenced from the local language except for the word "tower"). This was mainly because these three peaks did not have any local names.

K2's naming is actually very interesting. Until K2's discovery by the westerners few people, including the locals, knew of its existence, the same went for the Gasherbrums and Broad Peak as well. Nobody in their right mind ever wanted to walk across the Baltoro Glacier (local cultures had myths that beyond the snout of the Baltoro lay the place where demons lived, others thought it was where fairies lived and then add a hundred more myths). You might think that you could see K2 and her sister peaks from other mountains closer to the inhabited valleys but you'd be wrong. These mountains are completely curtained off from the rest of the world by other seriously tall mountains all around them. It was only in 2010 that a place (Iqbal point or the vertical point) was discovered North-East of the Hushe valley from where you can actually see K2 in any appreciable way on very clear days, but you have to climb 6000 meters to get there (!!!). Basically no one knew that these mountains were actually there (imagine that!). Due to this these mountains had practically no mention or significance in the local cultures and thus remained unnamed.

In the 1950s, under the Great Trigonometric Survey, Thomas Montgomerie was sent to mark out the most prominent features of the now Northern Pakistan. While on Mount Harmukh (in Indian occupied Kashmir) he observed two very tall and prominent peaks far off in the distance. He drew a sketch of the peaks and for record keeping designated the seemingly taller (only because it was closer) one K1 and the second K2, where the 'K' stood for the Karakoram and the '1' and '2' stood for a numerical designation. This is that sketch:

K2_by_Montgomery.jpg




The designation for K1 held for a little but soon gave way to its actual name; Masherbrum. Masherbrum was/is a very well known and observable mountain for the locals and thus had a name. The second unknown peak, however, did not and so the designation 'K2' stuck around. Numerous attempts have been made to give it a name in one of the local languages ('Chogori' is one of them) but none have stuck (the locals themselves call the beauty K2). Some narcissistic white men tried their best at getting it named Mt. Godwin Austin but that failed too.

My opinion on this matter was shaped by a low level mountaineer's blog who's name I can't remember. I'll paraphrase. In his opinion the designation K2 perfectly defines the very nature of the mountain i.e. the name K2 is perfect exactly because it is not a name and just a designation. Giving K2 a name will be an attempt at humanizing it when it is the epitome of inhuman and beyond human. It's character is savage, wrathful, unforgiving, terrifying, and most importantly unaccepting of the so-called might of the human spirit, will and arrogance, a character which cannot be explained let alone summarized in a human name. And thus any human-given-name will be disrespectful and arrogant.

I can't agree more.

If you notice it, the 'persona' or the 'ring' that the word "K2" gives off can't, at least for me, even be described in sentences.



True, however, the rate of melting in the past few decades has far exceeded anything that we have ever seen in the planet's history. I'm talking about millions of years as observed through scientific means. The retreats which have occurred in a few years used to happen over hundreds of years. I for one am not willing to take any chances.
I dont agree with this..... This is a conservative thinking.

The local Names must be given the every peak inside the boundaries of Pak. If NWFP can be named as KP then why cant they they r just mountains? After all they r just peaks. Actually the gov in 2007 or 2006 renamed it officially as Chogori instead of K-2 as it was a British named/designation given to it. It was done when Mushy's gov was taking tourism seriously and the term ''Destination Pakistan'' was used. But then the gov gone and nobody else bothered to use its actual name its not like this K-2 in itself so significant that it cant be renamed. About local people well any name which is get famous will be on the minds of local and foreign people for Chogori K-2 became as lot of books were written on this peak this this name so this got popularity thats all.

Same way if Chogori is given its rightful popularity/publicity by using this name in different blogs/book/websites then definitely this will replace K-2 in the minds of people. This is called psychological effect.
 
What a Stupid Writer. The Karakoram Mountain Range and Himalaya Mountain Ranges r Different. The Himalaya Range Ends in G-B and starts the Karakorum Range. Rather there is a Point where all these 3 mountain Ranges meet ie Hindu Kush, Karakorum, Himalaya.

@krash


if m not wrong karakorams are part of great himalayas ,,, btw i dont think so glaciers are melting rapidly these reports are just bogus one reports says glaciers are expanding one says glaciers are melting :P when i visited Nanga parbat base camp in first week of july 2011 it was empty of snow and when i visited same place in same days in 2012 base camp was covered with snow and glaciers :D
 
if m not wrong karakorams are part of great himalayas ,,, btw i dont think so glaciers are melting rapidly these reports are just bogus one reports says glaciers are expanding one says glaciers are melting :P when i visited Nanga parbat base camp in first week of july 2011 it was empty of snow and when i visited same place in same days in 2012 base camp was covered with snow and glaciers :D
Yes yr wrong Karakorum r not part of Himalaya.....Fellow this thread. And read Krash's posts.
 
I dont agree with this..... This is a conservative thinking.

The local Names must be given the every peak inside the boundaries of Pak. If NWFP can be named as KP then why cant they they r just mountains? After all they r just peaks. Actually the gov in 2007 or 2006 renamed it officially as Chogori instead of K-2 as it was a British named/designation given to it. It was done when Mushy's gov was taking tourism seriously and the term ''Destination Pakistan'' was used. But then the gov gone and nobody else bothered to use its actual name its not like this K-2 in itself so significant that it cant be renamed. About local people well any name which is get famous will be on the minds of local and foreign people for Chogori K-2 became as lot of books were written on this peak this this name so this got popularity thats all.

Same way if Chogori is given its rightful popularity/publicity by using this name in different blogs/book/websites then definitely this will replace K-2 in the minds of people. This is called psychological effect.

Well I guise its a matter of perspective. To me and that anonymous mountaineer, mountains are not just mountains or peaks. Some of us have strong emotional connections to them while others just do not. Personally, "Chogori" doesn't even sound right for me.

That said, as I mentioned before K2 has no 'actual name' or any name given to it by the locals. All the other names are artificial impositions (I admit "K2" was once artificial too, but not anymore). Had this been the case The Karakoram Conference would have established it the way it did for so many other peaks. It was at first a designation but now its a name, there's no K1, K3 or K4 anymore, there's just the one and the only mighty K2. The 'K' doesn't stand for anything and the '2' doesn't designate anything. But it's still not a human or humanizing name. It's perfectly unique and rightly inhuman, just like the mountain.

ps: I don't really mind the British having given K2 the name because it isn't a British name, point in case; Mt. Everest. The 'K' did stand for the Karakoram. They did make honest efforts at discarding all the artificial names and giving the peaks their original names. I respect that.

if m not wrong karakorams are part of great himalayas ,,, btw i dont think so glaciers are melting rapidly these reports are just bogus one reports says glaciers are expanding one says glaciers are melting :P when i visited Nanga parbat base camp in first week of july 2011 it was empty of snow and when i visited same place in same days in 2012 base camp was covered with snow and glaciers :D

The glaciers are melting, no doubt about it. You can't really judge the retreat in two visits this close to each other. Plus it was just a cooler year in 2012, happens every now and then. The extra snow and ice wouldn't have had any effect on the glacier. Next, the Nangaparbat glacier is a small one, can't be held as a marker.

The report which did say that some glaciers in Pakistan were holding their sizes or expanding made it clear that it was only some while other's were indeed retreating. Also the glaciers that it claimed were expanding are only the small ones. One reason why our glaciers are holding their ground better than the rest is because of the thick layer of mountain debris on them which shields them somewhat. But they are still loosing ground.

I still can't find the comparative pictures for Pakistani glaciers but here are some of the Nepali glaciers,

The Himalaya’s Melting Glaciers: e360 Gallery
 
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is there anything that can be done to stop this? (specifically glacier melting, not global warming)
 

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