Pakistan's Founder Jinnah: Tragic Hero

[Armstrong]

@Jungibaaz - Theek hai bhai ko koi lift hi nahin ?

 

[Jungibaaz]

@Jungibaaz - Theek hai bhai ko koi lift hi nahin ?

Brother I didn't get your notification before, but you're 100% spot on.

 

[Armstrong]

Brother I didn't get your notification before, but you're 100% spot on.

 

[Bratva]

Do i look like a gay to you that i would be captivated by "devilishly handsome" baba? was Jinnah my class fellow or rival and were we competing for a girl or what i would be jealous of him?. For God sake he was a bony-faced old man of my great grandfather times, dont act like a nerdy fangirl. I have read that he was cold introvert, mistaken for being arrogant, smoking cigarettes might be looking "cool" for you but it was deteriorating his health, baba-e-qaum had smoking problems. S

Now coming to the serious tone , i think Jinnah sahab was not man of deep vision and philosophical mind, he was just a sharp lawyer who was doing politics for time pass for first two or three decades. Jab congress may Dal nahi gali then he resigned and gave some attention to Muslim League. I think some one gave him idea or he himself realized that that talk more about muslims and islam in speeches, it would work. And it worked. I doubt that he was even remotely interested in religion but he was sharp enough to know that it is necessary tool for his politics and achieving goals. He promised Pir of manki Sharif that there would be sharia in pakistan and to secular person like Sikander Mirza, he said 'no such non-sense will be imposed in Pakistan.The British facilitated Jinnah's and Nehru's dreams , both of whom desired partition. Going with partition, was good decision by Jinnah, no one would dispute that.

My some criticism on post-Independence Jinnah

1- Jinnah stirred Urdu-bengali conflict

2- He acted like a civilian dedicator

3- For petty reason like seat of Governor General, he antagonized Lord Mount Baitan. Mr. Introvert coldly rejected the friendly gestures from Viceroy who then approached Nehru , who was then favored in partition plan. Kashmir and Gurdaspur went into hands of India due to poor judgment and decisions by Jinanh. The man signed Radcliffe award without even knowing the exact details of drawing of border.

Pir Jamaat Ali Shah (R.A.) (1841-1951)

You jelly bro that he has more brain and brawn than you ? This guy single handedly tackled the assassin who came to kill him. He single handedly fought and won against 3 forces of Indian subcontinent through his tounge and pen.

Bring me another example from history where a leader was able to free his nation through tounge and pen. Then we will consider your petty criticisms. Until then, do ponder why jinnah succeed and able to liberate pashtoons where babaye pashtoon ghaffar khan failed and previous revolts of pashtoon qabail failed to liberate them from british subjugation

 

[Samandri]

Until then, do ponder why jinnah succeed and able to liberate pashtoons where babaye pashtoon ghaffar khan failed and previous revolts of pashtoon qabail failed to liberate them from british subjugation

Ghaffar Khan was against partition of India so was Abdul Kalam Azad, Deoband, JI etc, in that sense they all failed......while Nehru and Jinnah succeeded......but the credit of partition goes to British, they were decision makers, and they they were the ones who divided India. If British had decided to go with united India, Jinnah would have been completely powerless, not tasting baba-e-qaum title. British decided to give Gurdaspur to India, for Kashmir ,and Jinnah was totally powerless and helpless on the occasion.

Pashtun fighters can not be compared to the politicians of British Indian political system, they had the culture of resisting invaders (both muslims and non-muslims) whether they succeeded or not. Their attacks on Sikhs and Mughals were also not fruitful. No combined resistance was offered to British forces and the tribes fought mostly for their individual interests. Jinnah didnt liberate them from British, he reconciled with them as a successor of British empire and was perceived as such in tribal areas. Most tribals welcomed his decision of pulling out of "pakistani troops" from tribal areas except for those who went with Pashtunistan idea. If Jinnah had decided to keep troops in tribal areas to engage "rebels" and "miscreants", Pakistan would have been facing insurgency in tribal areas right from 1947.

The one who was supporting tribal people in difficult times was not Jinnah but Ghaffar Khan

 

[SecularNationalist]

what he really wanted is a forgotten dream. He wanted a country which should be counted among the most developed countries and second to none. Unfortunately we have interpreted it other way round and are second to none in corruption, ruthlessness, theft and illiteracy. Mind it there is difference between being literate and educated. An uneducated person can be literate and a PhD can be illiterate. By the grace of God we are self sufficient in all the above. We blame it on politicians, military men, civil servants and so on but have we ever looked at ourselves. How many of us have regards for petty laws. We violate whatever we can. Look at the traffic mess in all the cities. People coming wrong side sarcastically look at those who follow traffic laws. How many of us have refused to pay bribe, it is because we do not want to wait and get going as fast as we can. How many of us has preferred getting a traffic ticket against greasing the palm of a constable.

He, Jinnah, wanted a country where people live in peace, with equality and without any fear of being prosecuted for following a particular belief. What he wanted was a secular state, where every religion has right to practice what they want. He wanted a country where tenants of Islam are considered while making law, which means that those should be based on justice and not personal will. His concept of secular state has been molded to suit vested interest rather then interest of this nation.

He indeed wanted a secular state but he did not want Islamic laws become part of Pakistani law. Secularism means separating religion from the state constitution and the matter of religion or a belief should strictly remain a private affair. Otherwise you cannot call yourself secular.

 

[nana41]

Great for Hindus,Sikhs,Christians , think of the possibility of all the fundamentalists being part of undivided India.
Interestingly he didn't spend a day in prison for India's independence , compared to 20 years each for Gandhi and Nehru.

Gandhi and Nehru never stayed in jail for 20 years.....may be less than
20 months.

 

[Panther 57]

He indeed wanted a secular state but he did not want Islamic laws become part of Pakistani law. Secularism means separating religion from the state constitution and the matter of religion or a belief should strictly remain a private affair. Otherwise you cannot call yourself secular.

With due respect to your freedom of thought and opinion.
Definition of Secular
noun
1.
a person who is not a member of the clergy; one of the laity.
2.
a person who is not a member of a given profession, as law or medicine.
adjective
1.
of or relating to worldly things or to things that are not regarded asreligious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal:
secular interests.
2.
not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred ):
secular music.
3.
(of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.
4.
(of members of the clergy) not belonging to a religious order; notbound by monastic vows (opposed to regular ).
5.
occurring or celebrated once in an age or century:
the secular games of Rome.
6.
going on from age to age; continuing through long ages.

Tenants of Islam do not contradict with secular state. In fact Islam itself is secular. If anyone studies Islam as a neutral person, not as an Islamic Cleric; BTW there is no concept of clergy in Islam unlike other religions. It is obligatory on every individual to study the fundamentals. And remember fundamentals of Islam are not what is being preached in Juma prayers. It is equality. justice, kindness, peace, respect, care, etc etc etc. Those who think fundamentals are mechanically praying 5 times a day; i am afraid they are sadly mistaken. Almighty has given top priority to Haqooq ul Ibad and then talked about Haqooq Allah, which is between the creator and created. A society which is based on Haqooq ul Ibad is a secular state, if some one realises it.

but the credit of partition goes to British, they were decision makers, and they they were the ones who divided India.

Credit does not go them as they had no choice but to leave India, at that point in time. WWII had taken its toll from them