Pakistan's Artillery Upgrade Discussions

[jamal18]

We do manufacture tank guns/smoothbore.

I don't think we make Guns as per tank and artillery Guns, if we do it would be a pleasant surprise. I thought the Gun for the Al-Khalid was made in China.

 

[Army research]

I wonder, what would it take to reverse engineer the M109 series? I mean, we maintain a rebuild factory for these, so we understand how to put the M109s together. The issue is fabricating a new chassis, but if we invest in it, would it really be outside of our ability? The main challenges would likely be the howitzer gun, engine and electronics, but we could those off-the-shelf (or build under license via South Africa, Ukraine, China, etc).

If only we can make the gun and FCU loader etc and other minor components , that too as a first start is good enough

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If only we can make the gun and FCU loader etc and other minor components , that too as a first start is good enough

Yeah. 100% indigenization might not be feasible, but I do think there's enough at play locally and from abroad to make a SPH based on the M109. We can acquire the actual gun/turret system from China or South Africa, and the engine from Ukraine. The rest (chassis and integration) we should be able to handle drawing on our experience with the al-Khalid and Talha (i.e., licensed/localized M113).

 

[Army research]

Yeah. 100% indigenization might not be feasible, but I do think there's enough at play locally and from abroad to make a SPH based on the M109. We can acquire the actual gun/turret system from China or South Africa, and the engine from Ukraine. The rest (chassis and integration) we should be able to handle drawing on our experience with the al-Khalid and Talha (i.e., licensed/localized M113).

I agree but being a bit of an optimist ,
Seeing how we've been manufacturing 125 barrels ,
Maybe we can step up a notch to 155 howitzer guns ? The manufacturing capability will have to be acquired but I'm sure the RND capability exists

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I agree but being a bit of an optimist ,
Seeing how we've been manufacturing 125 barrels ,
Maybe we can step up a notch to 155 howitzer guns ? The manufacturing capability will have to be acquired but I'm sure the RND capability exists

I think so to. I don't think the barrel should be an issue, mostly the dynamic components around the barrel (which make the gun). One idea could be to take a hit on near-term quality issues by co-funding an original project with SA based on their T6-52 platform? That way, we can accelerate the R&D.

 

[Signalian]

I think they raised new SP regiments, not sure though.

I believe our @Signalian would know, considering he is also a Gunner’s son.

Some medium towed converted to SP inducting M-109L.

May be from your fathers (respect for him) era? Induction of SPG-9 (@Signalian your favourite LOC gun) and 122mm KRL multiple rocket launcher?
View attachment 586299

My favourite on LOC is SPG-9 ?

Hahahahahaha

I don't think we make Guns as per tank and artillery Guns, if we do it would be a pleasant surprise. I thought the Gun for the Al-Khalid was made in China.

GUN Factory has the capability of producing barrels ranging from 105mm to 203mm caliber. It has a long standing experience in manufacture of 105mm Gun barrel for upgraded T-59 & T-69 II MP tanks and 125mm Guns / Barrels for the ongoing programmes of Tank Al-Khalid and Al-Zarrar. The autofrettaged barrels are manufactured from very high quality Electro Slag Refined Steel.

http://www.hit.gov.pk/defence-tab.php

 

[Army research]

I think so to. I don't think the barrel should be an issue, mostly the dynamic components around the barrel (which make the gun). One idea could be to take a hit on near-term quality issues by co-funding an original project with SA based on their T6-52 platform? That way, we can accelerate the R&D.

Yeah that's why I said 155 howitzers instead of barrel, much more complex than standard mbt barrels,
However since the M777ER is almost ready , and India being a customer of base version will most likely also order the ER version in the future as well ,
A threat like that we can't counter with off the shelf purchases , similar to how AZM is going something ambitious needs to be done for the army , Sort of a future army instead of a future soldier program , ie encompassing all the main fighting components

 

[The Accountant]

I believe that we cannot manufacture a Gun barrel. The rest should be no different to copying a heavy duty commercial vehicle.

We were making gun barrel for al khalid

 

[Smarana Mitra]

I think so to. I don't think the barrel should be an issue, mostly the dynamic components around the barrel (which make the gun). One idea could be to take a hit on near-term quality issues by co-funding an original project with SA based on their T6-52 platform? That way, we can accelerate the R&D.

Barrel is an issue when it comes to higher power/caliber artillery. The barrel will have to bear enormous pressure from the charge as well as stay straight despite the heavy barrel being pulled down by gravity. If proper quality control is not made, the barrel will start to bend in few weeks time and also, the chances that the barrel will burst when firing will increase drastically

 

[HRK]

I believe that we cannot manufacture a Gun barrel. The rest should be no different to copying a heavy duty commercial vehicle.

HIT is capable of manufacturing any gun barrel from 105 mm till 203 mm

 

[Sine Nomine]

I wonder, what would it take to reverse engineer the M109 series? I mean, we maintain a rebuild factory for these, so we understand how to put the M109s together. The issue is fabricating a new chassis, but if we invest in it, would it really be outside of our ability? The main challenges would likely be the howitzer gun, engine and electronics, but we could those off-the-shelf (or build under license via South Africa, Ukraine, China, etc).

We can do that,we fear Uncle Sam.

 

[iLION12345_1]

I think they raised new SP regiments, not sure though.

I believe our @Signalian would know, considering he is also a Gunner’s son.

I know they raised new regiments, what I meant to ask was, where does the M109”L” variant fit in. Is it an A2? An A5? Or something different all-together.

Thats way way before my father commanded an MLRS battery.

Heck my father joined graduated in 89.


We do manufacture tank guns/smoothbore.

My father joined in 1981. 71st L/C. He’s Also a gunner.

Also to add to the discussion. HIT is indeed capable of producing 155MM guns for the M109s. But they do not do it currently. Technically they can produce Most of the components for an M109 and have often done so while overhauling them. But I do believe there would be other issues in producing them.

I don't think we make Guns as per tank and artillery Guns, if we do it would be a pleasant surprise. I thought the Gun for the Al-Khalid was made in China.

HIT produces 105 and 125MM smoothbore guns. All of Al-khalids guns are made there. They have that capability for quite a while now.
The pictures are some barrels made in HIT that they have on display.

 

[khanasifm]

I know they raised new regiments, what I meant to ask was, where does the M109”L” variant fit in. Is it an A2? An A5? Or something different all-together.




My father joined in 1981. 71st L/C. He’s Also a gunner.

Also to add to the discussion. HIT is indeed capable of producing 155MM guns for the M109s. But they do not do it currently. Technically they can produce Most of the components for an M109 and have often done so while overhauling them. But I do believe there would be other issues in producing them.


HIT produces 105 and 125MM smoothbore guns. All of Al-khalids guns are made there. They have that capability for quite a while now.
The pictures are some barrels made in HIT that they have on display.

The original plan was to build barrels for 105 mm all the way to 155 mm but not sure if that has materialized

Gun barrel factory

 

[jamal18]

Making the barrel is the most technically difficult part. If we can make the barrel, then why aren't we making our own artillery, SP or towed. What's stopping us?

 

[Signalian]

I know they raised new regiments, what I meant to ask was, where does the M109”L” variant fit in. Is it an A2? An A5? Or something different all-together.

M-109 L is a variant of M-109 A3 with L/39 Gun. Auto loader is not present. FCS is of M-109 A3G (german variant) which makes M-109 L capable as an MBT in direct fire mode.