Pakistan's Artillery Upgrade Discussions

[fatman17]

But they are still helping us out

Anything that doesn't offend the Indians

 

[Zarvan]

But they are still helping us out

We can lot of weapons from South Africa from Artillery to MRAP and Sniper Guns and yes India has influence but not to forget Denel was banned by India so Indian influence is thing of past.

 

[fatman17]

We can lot of weapons from South Africa from Artillery to MRAP and Sniper Guns and yes India has influence but not to forget Denel was banned by India so Indian influence is thing of past.

Ban is removed bcuz too much money had to be made.

 

[Arsalan]

But they are still helping us out

And i heard that a private organization from our side is involved in some business as well. Bringing some goodies for PA

We can lot of weapons from South Africa from Artillery to MRAP and Sniper Guns and yes India has influence but not to forget Denel was banned by India so Indian influence is thing of past.

No dear, the ban was removed a couple of years back.

 

[Gryphon]

Any news about towed light howitzers (like Norinco AH4) ??

@Arsalan

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

And i heard that a private organization from our side is involved in some business as well. Bringing some goodies for PA


No dear, the ban was removed a couple of years back.

To be honest, South Africa doesn't have a single thing India can't get from elsewhere, especially Israel or the West. The only reason why they'd butt in is to basically interdict Pakistan's efforts. However, their last attempt at the Indian market did not turn out well, so there are people in the industry who will think twice about cutting Pakistan out. That still doesn't change the need for Pakistan to work doubly or triply hard to form key relationships in the South African defence industry. Unfortunately, proactive foreign policy work isn't our forte.

 

[Signalian]

Transportation of 130mm Artillery Guns by Helicopters to Shaqma & Olding using combination of Lama and Mi-17


The next phase after successful trials of high altitude Mi-17 landings was the transportation of 130mm arty guns to Shaqma and Olding Sectors from Skardu.

Lt. Col Tughral Bashir Commanding Officer 27 Squadron along with his team of pilots, Maj Nasir Iftikhar and Capt Naeem Masood Khan reached Skardu on 26 July 1996. At Shaqma the ground was descending all along after crossing Bari La at 16000 feet density altitude over Deosai into a narrow valley. Helicopter approach had to be terminated on a critically located helipad with no room to go-around. This place is known as Fultukush. There was a stream of water just short of helipad which would take away the ground cushion as well. Where as at Olding the ground was rising with terraces every 25 to 30 feet. Two terraces were cut and made one making it big enough for MI- 17 helicopter to land.

It indeed was a challenging task, Guns were disassembled and the heaviest part was the barrel which had to be transported in one piece of course. And it had to be put inside the cargo compartment in absence of sling equipment. The weight calculations necessitated that least quantity of fuel with no reserve be filled in the fuel tanks and even the crew chief and the ladder to climb into and come out of the helicopter be left behind. When barrel including breach block was adjusted inside the cargo compartment the barrel remained 6 feet out from rear cargo door.

Lama pilots were tasked to give the wind direction before descending from Deosai. Because without favorable wind landing was not possible and MI- 17 could not climb out of valley with the load of barrel once descend had been initiated. With all the factors are calculated and taken care of three 130mm guns were flown to Hassan Gun Position from 27 July to 8 August 1996 in eight sorties. After this preparations were made to fly remaining three guns to Olding Sector.

After successful gun transportation by helicopter in Shaqma sector FCNA planned to shift more artillery guns to different sectors. The weight of one gun was approximately 7500 kilograms.

MI- 17s proved equal to the task and 1x 57mm, 15 x 105mm and 43 x 130mm guns along with crew and ammunition, defence stores, troops, overhead protection, engineers stores were successfully transported to the desired locations.

 

[Gryphon]

FCNA is inadequate for a large area like GB. If a war breaks out, how will it hold against three divisions of IA attacking from Turtuk , Skardu-Kargil and Minimarg-Gurez sectors ? Even air support from Skardu Airfield and possibly Gilgit Airport will prove ineffective as IA will have much more air support from Leh, Kargil, Srinagar and Awantipur Airbases. The result will be rapid loss of territory in GB. So, a new Corps for PA in GB (with several light artillery battalions) is required as soon as possible.

 

[Gryphon]

Transportation of 130mm Artillery Guns by Helicopters to Shaqma & Olding using combination of Lama and Mi-17


The next phase after successful trials of high altitude Mi-17 landings was the transportation of 130mm arty guns to Shaqma and Olding Sectors from Skardu.

Lt. Col Tughral Bashir Commanding Officer 27 Squadron along with his team of pilots, Maj Nasir Iftikhar and Capt Naeem Masood Khan reached Skardu on 26 July 1996. At Shaqma the ground was descending all along after crossing Bari La at 16000 feet density altitude over Deosai into a narrow valley. Helicopter approach had to be terminated on a critically located helipad with no room to go-around. This place is known as Fultukush. There was a stream of water just short of helipad which would take away the ground cushion as well. Where as at Olding the ground was rising with terraces every 25 to 30 feet. Two terraces were cut and made one making it big enough for MI- 17 helicopter to land.

It indeed was a challenging task, Guns were disassembled and the heaviest part was the barrel which had to be transported in one piece of course. And it had to be put inside the cargo compartment in absence of sling equipment. The weight calculations necessitated that least quantity of fuel with no reserve be filled in the fuel tanks and even the crew chief and the ladder to climb into and come out of the helicopter be left behind. When barrel including breach block was adjusted inside the cargo compartment the barrel remained 6 feet out from rear cargo door.

Lama pilots were tasked to give the wind direction before descending from Deosai. Because without favorable wind landing was not possible and MI- 17 could not climb out of valley with the load of barrel once descend had been initiated. With all the factors are calculated and taken care of three 130mm guns were flown to Hassan Gun Position from 27 July to 8 August 1996 in eight sorties. After this preparations were made to fly remaining three guns to Olding Sector.

After successful gun transportation by helicopter in Shaqma sector FCNA planned to shift more artillery guns to different sectors. The weight of one gun was approximately 7500 kilograms.

MI- 17s proved equal to the task and 1x 57mm, 15 x 105mm and 43 x 130mm guns along with crew and ammunition, defence stores, troops, overhead protection, engineers stores were successfully transported to the desired locations.

Too much time-consuming process... Light howitzers like LEO can be quickly deployed at forward locations using Mi-17 attached with sling equipment.

For 155 mm guns like AH4, heavy transport choppers are needed. Russia can sell Pakistan one such type if PA decides to go for 155 mm light towed guns.

 

[Signalian]

FCNA is inadequate for a large area like GB. If a war breaks out, how will it hold against three divisions of IA attacking from Turtuk , Skardu-Kargil and Minimarg-Gurez sectors ? Even air support from Skardu Airfield and possibly Gilgit Airport will prove ineffective as IA will have much more air support from Leh, Kargil, Srinagar and Awantipur Airbases. The result will be rapid loss of territory in GB. So, a new Corps for PA in GB (with several light artillery battalions) is required as soon as possible.

Put GB scouts in defensive positions between regulars. Give heavy weapons like RR, RL's, Mortars, SAM's to hold ground through fire power, making up for inadequate man power. A stop gap till the plan for raising a new formation is made.

Chaklala and Peshawar airbases/airport also cater for AJK sector.

 

[Gryphon]

Put GB scouts in defensive positions between regulars. Give heavy weapons like RR, RL's, Mortars, SAM's to hold ground through fire power, making up for inadequate man power. A stop gap till the plan for raising a new formation is made.

Chaklala and Peshawar airbases/airport also cater for AJK sector.

Paramilitary GB Scouts has three wings only, i.e. roughly 2400 men. So, GB Scouts as a reinforcement would help very little.

Last year, a new division of PA namely Special Security Division (SSD) with 9 army battalions was being raised with its HQ at Chilas in GB (not far away from Minimarg Sector).Will SSD have an area of responsibility or it is for CPEC security only ??

 

[Signalian]

Paramilitary GB Scouts has three wings only, i.e. roughly 2400 men. So, GB Scouts as a reinforcement would help very little.

Last year, a new division of PA namely Special Security Division (SSD) with 9 army battalions was being raised with its HQ in Chilas in GB (not far away from Minimarg Sector).Will it have any area of responsibility ??

CPEC routes.

 

[fatman17]

Paramilitary GB Scouts has three wings only, i.e. roughly 2400 men. So, GB Scouts as a reinforcement would help very little.

Last year, a new division of PA namely Special Security Division (SSD) with 9 army battalions was being raised with its HQ at Chilas in GB (not far away from Minimarg Sector).Will SSD have an area of responsibility or it is for CPEC security only ??

SSD is for nuclear sites and now CPEC infrastructure.

 

[fatman17]

M109A7

 

[Michael Corleone]

Noice. Why don't bd get something like this.