Pakistan's Army Chief Calls Kashmir its 'Jugular Vein'

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Since creation of the nation, this state was never under its rule at any point of time.

Its like India calling Hawaii its jugular vein.

it has been a Princely State since time immemorial. The people were against accession to india and people are what matter....not puppet "maharajas" who are installed by foreigners

linguistically and ethnically - Kashmiris share nothing in common with majority "india"

 

[Contrarian]

But Pakistan needs a wise man with a big brain.

But India needs Pakistani's with aggressiveness and big balls.

Every time Pakistan gets such a leader, we make huge gains.

Do you know that because of the Kargil incident, no international forum or government even considers Pakistan's claim any more. Earlier western governments somewhat agreed to Pakistan's position.

But Kargil changed all of that, it converted the LoC there to a defacto IB(note - I said defacto, not legally).

 

[VCheng]

But India needs Pakistani's with aggressiveness and big balls.

Every time Pakistan gets such a leader, we make huge gains.

Do you know that because of the Kargil incident, no international forum or government even considers Pakistan's claim any more. Earlier western governments somewhat agreed to Pakistan's position.

But Kargil changed all of that, it converted the LoC there to a defacto IB(note - I said defacto, not legally).

Much of what you say may be correct, but I do have some hopes that Pakistan can, and will, produce sane leaders at some point.

 

[Contrarian]

Much of what you say may be correct, but I do have some hopes that Pakistan can, and will, produce sane leaders at some point.

Balance of probability is that it will.

But there is always hope on this side that it does not happen. As I said, for every Pakistani leader with aggression and big balls, we lose blood and treasure but we gain a lot of things that would otherwise not have been available for the taking. The cost-benefit scale tilts in the benefits side heavily.

 

[VCheng]

Balance of probability is that it will.

But there is always hope on this side that it does not happen. As I said, for every Pakistani leader with aggression and big balls, we lose blood and treasure but we gain a lot of things that would otherwise not have been available for the taking. The cost-benefit scale tilts in the benefits side heavily.

I could answer better if I could see both your flags.

 

[Contrarian]

I could answer better if I could see both your flags.

Dont get the significance there?
Indian, in any case.

 

[VCheng]

Dont get the significance there?
Indian, in any case.

It would make the meaning of "we" clearer, at least to me.

Anyway, one day India might realize that a stable and intelligent government in Pakistan might actually be beneficial for India too.

 

[k_arura]

Its all about water of Kashmir's rivers.

So you finally figured it out?

It would make the meaning of "we" clearer, at least to me.

Anyway, one day India might realize that a stable and intelligent government in Pakistan might actually be beneficial for India too.

Yes and WITHOUT nuclear weapons

 

[VCheng]

........
Yes and WITHOUT nuclear weapons

India would do well to regard Pakistani nuclear weapons as a permanent feature of its neighbor.

 

[Contrarian]

It would make the meaning of "we" clearer, at least to me.

Anyway, one day India might realize that a stable and intelligent government in Pakistan might actually be beneficial for India too.

Oh, in case you donot know.

The GoI is actively divided into two camps over Pakistan.
One believes that a stable, prosperous Pakistan is in India's interest. The other group believes that a withering, boiling Pakistan is in India's interest.

As of now ie over the last 2 terms of the GoI, no side could win or comprehensively convince the other.

However since Manmohan Singh was probably the strongest proponent of the 'prosperous and stable' camp and the most powerful voice in the Government, the hawks were relatively muted.

With a new Government all set to take power within 15 days, its up in the air again.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Balance of probability is that it will.

But there is always hope on this side that it does not happen. As I said, for every Pakistani leader with aggression and big balls, we lose blood and treasure but we gain a lot of things that would otherwise not have been available for the taking. The cost-benefit scale tilts in the benefits side heavily.

& that is exactly what we know of you guys & them, make no mistake about it !
because this time we will not let any Ayub ,Yahya, Zia, & Musharraf harm our national interest anymore !, so you are well advised to forget those days of your cunning games with idiots on our sides !
because today for every Ayub/Yahya we have a Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto for every ZIA we have a Benazir , for every Musharraf we have a Nawaz Sharif, & for every other guys with aggression and big balls to gift you BD & Siachen, we have a gen, Kiyani ! & trust me we will not let that happen again

 

[Contrarian]

& that is exactly what we know of you guys make no mistake about it !
because this time we will not let any Ayub ,Yahya, Zia, & Musharraf harm our national interest anymore !, so you are well advised to forget those days of your cunning games with idiots on our sides !
because today for every Ayub/Yahya we have a Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto for every ZIA we have a Benazir , for every Musharraf we have a Nawaz Sharif, & for every other guys with aggression and big balls to gift you BD & Siachen, we have a gen, Kiyani ! & trust me we will not let that happen again

Enough with the rhetoric genmiraj.
The 'we will not let' lines are for 16 year olds. And I thought you were older. Every country has what we call organizational knowledge accumulated over decades.

The kind of education system that Pakistan has, coupled with the blatant glorification of military, violence and conquest in the Pakistan's society - Add a touch of religious/racial bigotry present there and it practically assures that sooner or later, such individuals will keep rising to power in Pakistan.

If not sequentially, then intermittently.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Enough with the rhetoric genmiraj.
The 'we will not let' lines are for 16 year olds. And I thought you were older. Every country has what we call organizational knowledge accumulated over decades.

The kind of education system that Pakistan has, coupled with the blatant glorification of military, violence and conquest in the Pakistan's society - Add a touch of religious/racial bigotry present there and it practically assures that sooner or later, such individuals will keep rising to power in Pakistan.

If not sequentially, then intermittently.

yes there are flaws I agree but steps are also being taken to reform the education system , don't you see with all the glorifications & orchestrated onslaught on it, the media is still standing strong & exposing & hitting back against the anti-democratic movements, & with all the strings that are pulling those immature agitations , baring a few disgruntled 30-35 members from an insignificant block, the gov't & the main opposition ,along with majority of the parliamentarian's are standing rock solid & firm behind democracy
so, going by your logic, even I can say that AAP will form the next gov't with the third front in India, but we all know that, that is not happening same is the case with Pakistan here

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Much of what you say may be correct, but I do have some hopes that Pakistan can, and will, produce sane leaders at some point.

I think a strong statement from the U.S state department warning against any undemocratic movement can easily cool the temperature's & that is exactly what the democratic forces needs now , why isn't the state department intervening @ such a crucial moment ? where does the U.S goes when Democracy in Pakistan needs them the most just one strong statement one GOD damn Statement can literally turn the table & can strengthen the democratic forces inside Pakistan is this too much to ask ?

 

[VCheng]

I think a strong statement from the U.S state department warning against any undemocratic movement can easily cool the temperature's & that is exactly what the democratic forces needs now , why isn't the state department intervening @ such a crucial moment ? where does the U.S goes when Democracy in Pakistan needs them the most just one strong statement one GOD damn Statement can literally turn the table & can strengthen the democratic forces inside Pakistan is this too much to ask ?

The State Department also has to keep in mind who can actually deliver what is needed pending US withdrawal from Afghanistan. Idealism has to be tempered with practicality in this case, clearly.

Oh, in case you donot know.

The GoI is actively divided into two camps over Pakistan.
One believes that a stable, prosperous Pakistan is in India's interest. The other group believes that a withering, boiling Pakistan is in India's interest.

As of now ie over the last 2 terms of the GoI, no side could win or comprehensively convince the other.

However since Manmohan Singh was probably the strongest proponent of the 'prosperous and stable' camp and the most powerful voice in the Government, the hawks were relatively muted.

With a new Government all set to take power within 15 days, its up in the air again.

Up in the air? With Mr. Modi's likely ascension, it is likely the hawks will win for his term.