‘Pakistan’s armed forces far better today than ’65, ’71’

[Joe Shearer]

I respect your opinion however there are some obvious flaws...Please note my intention is not to degrade/chest thump here...



I am in agreement here...Pakistan did well to safegaurd West Pakistan(of that time) from an Indian onslaught...however we also need to keep in mind on some of key words used above...."escalation was not desired"....think about it...it was a diversionary move which means the main intent behind was to relive pressure in Kashmir...now i am not trying to defend IA not able to make deep inroads or taking away PA defending their home turf however just want to highlight that capturing Pak territory deep inside was perhaps not the main intent nevertheless an intent!!



Now this is where you are going wrong...1962 was perhaps an awakening for us. Prior to that our beloved(pun intended) chacha Nehru was of the opinion that NAM is the way to go and Army is a waste of resource....what a moron!!

Think about it ....IA is huge as compared to PA so 3 years in that context is too small a time to induct things, prepare doctrines, create infrastructure/ground support, provide it to your huge army and train them to fight a war!! ...no??

Pakistan which was a member of CENTO, Seato in 1955 and flogging GDP rate higher than India was in much better shape than Indian Army...Indian Army major force at that time was its numerical superiority. This is also quiet evident from the fact that by the time ceasefire came into picture 80% of our ammunition was intact as compared to 20% of yours...Had war continued a bit longer PA would have find it very difficult.... In short we can't ignore that PA army was enjoying the best toys of that time and perhaps the only time in history where IN had no answers to PN(though navy hardly play a role however used just to prove a point)


Bold part is wrong and sorry to say this piece smells hypocricy as well...IA did want to destroy PA however that idea was floated in 71 war which never got political nod and thus died...In 65 had the aim of destroying PA then perhaps an easier target would have been eastern Pakistan, no?? We would have gone and capture that Area and played defensive in western flank...

Also on one hand you justified claiming victory by saying that Indian Army failed to achieve objective of destroying PA(which is more of a speculation) however simply ignoring the PA objectives(which actually was the aggressor) failure viz-a-viz Gramdslam and Gibralatar....


Now this is intellectual dishonesty....Your eastern flank was never protected enough and "Defence of East lies in West" was your military staff planners mantra...check your history books...this is not something that we made...Your western flank failed to make any major inroads into our borders and that is where you lost the war...This is the time when India military was getting all the goodies from USSR and was turning into a major force to rekon with....IN which was literraly cooling heals in 65 war turned the tide never to look back from there....



If you are talking in purely conventional terms then I am sorry but you have lost the edge...An army which was more of an aggressor has simply shed the role and turned into a defensive force...if you are bringing in nukes then i believe even china will not go victorious....the day you field a true ICBM then you can strike Russia and USA as well...because nobody win's a nuclear war...simple!!

Just to supplement your point about the relatively better situation of India and the Indian Army at the time, that same status regarding ammunition was reported as an 'out-of-ammunition' situation by an unnecessarily cautious leadership.

In general this post was a model of restraint combined with sober and comprehensive analysis. Very readable.

 

[ConcealCarry]

LOL........... Indians always knew everything before it happened and always get caught with their pants down...........LOL

So if that was a "cunning strategic" move by india, then they failed miserably as we not only survived but came out stronger, determined and learned who to trust and who not to..............developed our nukes, missiles, tanks and jets.................what did india do?

BS propaganda in red, no one lost a single penny all Dollar accounts were frozen "no withdrawl " allowed in dollars instead converted to PKR at prevailing rate

Stop this BS that Indians are prone to lying and Half truths. Well Indians knew that Pakistan had a nuclear weapon and it will do the nuclear test, even the Indians wanted that Pakistan should do the testing. There would be sanctions on both the countries and Pakistan would find very hard to face the sanctions. After the sanctions were imposed on both the countries,Pakistan found it very difficult to pay it import bills,foreign loans so much the prime Minister imposed a ban on flight of foreign currency. In short at that time, I remember that lakhs of Pakistanis lost all their savings when their dollar accounts were frozen and told they could withdraw their money in rupees at a rate fixed by the government.

 

[Joe Shearer]

LOL........... Indians always knew everything before it happened and always get caught with their pants down...........LOL

So if that was a "cunning strategic" move by india, then they failed miserably as we not only survived but came out stronger, determined and learned who to trust and who not to..............developed our nukes, missiles, tanks and jets.................what did india do?

BS propaganda in red, no one lost a single penny all Dollar accounts were frozen "no withdrawl " allowed in dollars instead converted to PKR at prevailing rate

Could you two kindly get a room?

 

[ConcealCarry]

what do you mean?

Could you two kindly get a room?

 

[Joe Shearer]

what do you mean?

Ask an older person.

 

[ConcealCarry]

Kid, I am 50 years old, I am asking you what was the meaning of your statement? Why did you jump in with that insinuating statement without any reason?

if you can't answer your own stupid statements then stop making them,

Ask an older person.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Kid, I am 50 years old, I am asking you what was the meaning of your statement? Why did you jump in with that insinuating statement without any reason?

if you can't answer your own stupid statements then stop making them,

Kid, I am considerably older than you.

If you cannot confine your childish squabbles to private discussions, try not to inflict them on the rest of us. We don't deserve it.

 

[dadeechi]

KARACHI: Pakistan’s armed forces are far superior today than in the wars of 1965 and 1971, panelists at breakfast meeting organised by the Council of Pakistan Newspaper Editors (CPNE) observed on Friday.

“Our armed forces are second to none in fighting militants and have proven themselves far better than many western armies fighting Islamic State and other militant factions without much success in the Middle East,” President of Pakistan Ex-Servicemen Association (Pesa) Lt-Gen (retd) Ali Kuli Khan said at the meeting held in Karachi.

According to Gen Khan, the command of Pakistan Army is in professional hands today. “There is line of senior officers capable of taking command from the present chief to carry on their legacy to future generation,” he said.

Talking about the fall of East Pakistan in 1971, the Pesa president said holding the army alone responsible for the debacle is unfair. “I don’t want to start a blame game but the war in East Pakistan was lost before it began… it was lost for political reasons,” he said.

He added that even the then army chief of the Indian army praised Pakistani forces and admitted that the latter faced the overwhelming strength of 16 to one in India’s favour.

Gen Khan also hit out at Pakistani leaders who have robbed the nation blind through rampant corruption. He said government servants, both uniformed and non-uniformed, were now chasing these leaders who have left Pakistan in a state beyond repair.

Shuja Nawaz, the author of ‘Crossed Swords’, a well-researched history of the Pakistan Army, praised the army of today at the meeting as well. He said instead of relying on theoretical text books, real-life experience is being shared with new recruits by battle-hardened instructors. Their interaction is producing excellent results, he added.

CPNE Secretary General Dr Jabbar Khattak said the army has been playing a positive role in Pakistan in addition to their duties on border. “This has impacted our country’s history both inside and outside Pakistan,” he said.

Defence analyst Ikram Sehgal also praised the army and rangers, saying they had done an exceedingly good job in Karachi. “After 2008 there is a tremendous change in army’s achievements. No army has got success against militants in the world with all their vast resources like Pakistan Armed Forces,” he said. “This momentum must carry on into future,” he added.

Published in The Express Tribune, October 3rd, 2015.

‘Pakistan’s armed forces far better today than ’65, ’71’ - The Express Tribune

Excellent and Amazing how Pakistan is able compete with a much larger country like India. As a poster said this decrease in conventional capability gap between Pakistan and India would go a long way in decreasing the need for nuclear conflict. This also now allows Pakistan to go for the nuclear deal offered by US.

 

[ConcealCarry]

If despite being older than 50, you haven't yet figured it out that this is internet forum, then listen carefully, I'll just say it once, no one gives a hoot what anyone likes or not, If you don't want to read the "childish" squabbles than keep off the internet and don't poke your stinky nose in other's discussions.

Kid, I am considerably older than you.

If you cannot confine your childish squabbles to private discussions, try not to inflict them on the rest of us. We don't deserve it.

 

[suresh1773]

LOL........... Indians always knew everything before it happened and always get caught with their pants down...........LOL

So if that was a "cunning strategic" move by india, then they failed miserably as we not only survived but came out stronger, determined and learned who to trust and who not to..............developed our nukes, missiles, tanks and jets.................what did india do?

BS propaganda in red, no one lost a single penny all Dollar accounts were frozen "no withdrawl " allowed in dollars instead converted to PKR at prevailing rate

U r talking like a kid here and not like a 50 year old,yes there was restrictions on foreign currency transactions at that time. In such a case which foreign investor will invest in Pakistan,how can a pakistani resident make a payment to a foreign customer if his foreign currency accounts are frozen,it is not the question of converting into Pakistani rupees.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Excellent and Amazing how Pakistan is able compete with a much larger country like India. As a poster said this decrease in conventional capability gap between Pakistan and India would go a long way in decreasing the need for nuclear conflict. This also now allows Pakistan to go for the nuclear deal offered by US.

It is amazing, but hardly excellent. If there had not been an artificially induced hostility created and kept in place, all this would not have been required. The money - on both sides of the border - could have gone to far more worthwhile and developmentally desirable objectives.

If despite being older than 50, you haven't yet figured it out that this is internet forum, then listen carefully, I'll just say it once, no one gives a hoot what anyone likes or not, If you don't want to read the "childish" squabbles than keep off the internet and don't poke your stinky nose in other's discussions.

As it happens, you will probably do well to take advice, rather than dishing it out. If it has not occurred to you already, those who have been here and know what is going on need none of this simple-minded advice.

 

[dadeechi]

It is amazing, but hardly excellent. If there had not been an artificially induced hostility created and kept in place, all this would not have been required. The money - on both sides of the border - could have gone to far more worthwhile and developmentally desirable objectives.

Development has never been the objective of any state or the powers that be. Development has always been the child born out of collateral effect and has never been the main objective.

 

[ConcealCarry]

what is your argument? I responded to your claim that indian tests were meant to draw Pakistan to carry out it's test so that when sanctions are imposed, india will survive but Pakistan will crumble...............and I proved that it did not happen like india planned..................your last post has no material in it to respond to

U r talking like a kid here and not like a 50 year old,yes there was restrictions on foreign currency transactions at that time. In such a case which foreign investor will invest in Pakistan,how can a pakistani resident make a payment to a foreign customer if his foreign currency accounts are frozen,it is not the question of converting into Pakistani rupees.

LOL khisyani billi khamba nochay...
don't bother with your rants

As it happens, you will probably do well to take advice, rather than dishing it out. If it has not occurred to you already, those who have been here and know what is going on need none of this simple-minded advice.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Development has never been the objective of any state or the powers that be. Development has always been the child born out of collateral effect and has never been the main objective.

Partially correct. It is not for nothing that such vast international effort is going into the Sustainable Development Goals, and that it had once gone into the Millennium Development Goals.

 

[suresh1773]

what is your argument? I responded to your claim that indian tests were meant to draw Pakistan to carry out it's test so that when sanctions are imposed, india will survive but Pakistan will crumble...............and I proved that it did not happen like india planned..................your last post has no material in it to respond to

U have a IQ of an office boy.Why WERE foreign currency accounts frozen,do u have any answer. U don't understand the implications.After the tests the then PM Nawaz Sharief was on a begging bowl mission to IMF,World Bank,Middle East for debt rescheduling. Due to sanctions imposed on Pakistan,there was no way that Pakistan would be able to clear its debts and international obligations