Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[mhosein]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1485951554796593159

Is this just happening or has already been implemented?

 

[araz]

Is this just happening or has already been implemented?

They did try it before and the plane was in China but it ould not happen then. The question is what has changed since then?
A

 

[mhosein]

They did try it before and the plane was in China but it ould not happen then. The question is what has changed since then?
A

No, what I meant to ask was whether the ZDK-03s have already been outfitted with AESA now, or is the process about to commence.?

 

[Sage]

No fresh deal with Pakistan

While Saab is offering the Gripen fighters to India, it is also providing the early warning aircraft system to Pakistan — an issue that has upset the IAF.

Pakistan used the SAAB-manufactured early warning aircraft system to coordinate its attack on an Indian military installation in Jammu and Kashmir a day after the Balakot strike earlier in February.

During his visit to Sweden in June this year, Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa had expressed his displeasure with the defence major for supplying Pakistan with early warning systems and also offering Gripen fighters to India.

New Delhi is of the view that it will be difficult to do business with a country that also arms the enemy.

In a bid to pacify the IAF, Ola Rignell persisted that SAAB is not selling any new products to Pakistan.

He also pointed out that every contender has dealt with Pakistan, and other assets were also used in the post-Balakot action.

Pakistan had used French fighters Mirage as well American F-16s.

However, Rignell remained non-committal on future sales to Pakistan, saying the Swedish government decides on such matters and not the company.

“As far as I know, we are not selling any new products to that country (Pakistan). There is an old order and we are fulfilling our contract obligation,” Rignell said.

The Pakistan Air Force had ordered three new SAAB 2000 early warning aircraft in 2017 to supplement the ones that were destroyed in a terror attack on Minhas air base five years before that.

Rignell added that he was part of the meeting in Sweden when Dhanoa raised the issue and this is exactly what he had told him as well.

“We are trying to sell the latest AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) — Golden Eye — to India. We have sold them to UAE. (But) India is already working on its indigenous systems,” he said.

SAAB wants to offer Gripen at half of Rafale cost, with full tech transfer, local production

In an interview to ThePrint, SAAB India CMD Ola Rignell highlights efficiency of Gripen, its offer to India, & the issues around its sales to Pakistan.

theprint.in

http://In a nutshell, Ola showed his middle finger to the IAF cheap !

 

[araz]

You might want to read about the reality of Mig-35 and AESA radar

Why Russia’s MiG-35 Is Starting To Look Like A Dead Duck

The latest-generation Fulcrum should have been in service by now, so why isn’t it and what went wrong?

www.thedrive.com

There is a huge difference between promoting things for export and actually having it in production and on aircraft. Russians are very good at showing prototypes on air shows, but not very good at delivering it into production. For AESA radar, they simply haven't been able to get the cost of producing T/R modules down due to their backward electronics industry.

What China has is a relatively modern electronics industry along with a lot of investment in military radar. That started with AESA radar on KJ-2000 and Type 052C over 15 years ago. With continued investment and improving domestic industry, they have been able to put AESA radar on all their recent aircraft since 2015. That's really only behind America and France. EFT still does not have AESA radar. Just think about that. JF-17 will get AESA radars before EFT.

Again, look at what's in production rather than what's promoted in air shows. Huge difference. Don't fall for capabilities that sales teams are promising to be ready in a couple of years.

Totally unrelated and apologies for being off topic but do you know why the PAF KEs couuuld not get upgraded to AESA radars as PAF had sent one over to China and it stayed there for 18 months or so, Help appreciated. You can respond in the relevant topic and ttag me if you want.
A

 

[Beast]

Totally unrelated and apologies for being off topic but do you know why the PAF KEs couuuld not get upgraded to AESA radars as PAF had sent one over to China and it stayed there for 18 months or so, Help appreciated. You can respond in the relevant topic and ttag me if you want.
A

There are some sensitive technology especially AWACS AESA that cannot be share with outsider.

Just like Type 99A and J-20 are not for export.

 

[araz]

There are some sensitive technology especially AWACS AESA that cannot be share with outsider.

Just like Type 99A and J-20 are not for export.

If the media is correct the KE was in China for 18 months. You dont call in a plane to upgrade it and then say "sorry the project is secret". Something must have gone wrong, attempted and not worked out. PAF is very sensitive the our brothers sensitivities and will never ask for what will not be given.
A

 

[Beast]

If the media is correct the KE was in China for 18 months. You dont call in a plane to upvrade it and then say "sorry the project is secret". Something must have gone wrong, attempted and not worked out. PAF is very sensitive the our brothers sensitivities and will never ask for what will not be given.
A

Sometimes, engineer and government level are not always well informed of each other. Engineer side will seek approval for certain export order from government. But if it's rejected for export order.

There is nothing the supplier can do. We are talking about upgrade and servicing. So the application and process can be last minute and haste. Especially when comes to AWACS, the technology export are highly control. Repeat request can be make but end result will depend on government level.

 

[The Eagle]

Sometimes, engineer and government level are not always well informed of each other. Engineer side will seek approval for certain export order from government. But if it's rejected for export order.

There is nothing the supplier can do. We are talking about upgrade and servicing. So the application and process can be last minute and haste. Especially when comes to AWACS, the technology export are highly control. Repeat request can be make but end result will depend on government level.

You are saying that they called the KE for upgrade and then took 18 months to decide and then rejected. Don't you think that such an alleged call in first place seems to be childish behaviour, non professional & opting something without homework. This argument seems to be wrong in the first place which apparently shows Chinese military aviation in very wrong picture.

My humble opinion is that, if someone is not aware of the situation/details/facts; it is better not to argue with wrong perspective and make it more messy.

 

[araz]

Sometimes, engineer and government level are not always well informed of each other. Engineer side will seek approval for certain export order from government. But if it's rejected for export order.

There is nothing the supplier can do. We are talking about upgrade and servicing. So the application and process can be last minute and haste. Especially when comes to AWACS, the technology export are highly control. Repeat request can be make but end result will depend on government level.

I wish I could explain in English what "bongian marna" is. However @ The Eagle has explained our view point so I will wait for a more informed point of view.
A

 

[The Eagle]

I will wait for a more informed point of view.

I think, if not upgraded secretly; it was more about air-frame condition/space/utility like cost Vs benefits given the study and findings afterwards..

 

[araz]

I think, if not upgraded secretly; it was more about air-frame condition/space/utility like cost Vs benefits given the study and findings afterwards..

Bhai.
Iam happy to accept the later explanation. I dont think it was upgraded asotherwise the rest of them would have gone over by now. However the manufacturers spent 18 months to decide it was not worth it? Still it is the most plausible along with cost vs benefit exercise. There may have been other issues.
Anyways onwards and upwards. It seems PAF has gone down the Erieye route with more platforms.

Kind regards
A

 

[The Eagle]

Iam happy to accept the later explanation. I dont think it was upgraded asotherwise the rest of them would have gone over by now. However the manufacturers spent 18 months to decide it was not worth it? Still it is the most plausible along with cost vs benefit exercise. There may have been other issues.

No explainer I have at all but I agree that it is just nonsense to say that 18 months were spent merely to say no due to secrete tech. Informed members with that episode can help though. I will tag it in relevant thread.

 

[serenity]

What happened with KE upgrade?

The aircraft sent in for upgrade for 18 months and then went back to Pakistan with no changes?

I would guess 18 months for waiting on approval for certain planned upgrades is probably not likely. PAF wouldn't allow waiting for a response for 18 months. Maybe some upgrades were made but said as nothing changed. Or some repair work done.

 

[The Eagle]

What happened with KE upgrade?

The aircraft sent in for upgrade for 18 months and then went back to Pakistan with no changes?

I would guess 18 months for waiting on approval for certain planned upgrades is probably not likely. PAF wouldn't allow waiting for a response for 18 months. Maybe some upgrades were made but said as nothing changed. Or some repair work done.

Last time I remember, it was said that lot of upgrade was done. Only @araz brought the argument of AESA. But I agree that it doesn't seems plausible to station for 18 months and nothing changed.

I have moved posts here for the relevancy of discussion.