Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[Falcon26]

The Erieye is able to datalink to ALL of our systems. They are highly flexible and can operate whatever standard is requested by the customer




Nope, it does not mean we will get more F-16's, it just means we are happy with their performance and find them sufficient for our needs. They datalink with the Mirages and JF-17's too.



But sniper pods arent exactly an offensive asset, or even an asset that would raise objection from India. Its not that the US refuses to sell us anything, its more that they want us to pay for it. The T129's are stuck because of Turkey, the AH1Z's are stuck because we dont want to pay the full price for them. We can buy more new F-16's, just at a price of $120m each. Selling us new aircraft would raise major red flags for India, considering the US is relatively pro India atm, it would be highly unlikely they want to upset them. Just look, India has been offered the Patriot, THAAD, SLAMRAAM's, F-15, F/A-18, a new variant of the F-16 etc, India is favored by the US due to its immense market size

You’re contradicting yourself. The F-16 BLK 52s were sold despite Indian protestation. As were the AH1Z helicopters. As you have mentioned, they didn’t come due to financing issues. The Pakistanis wanted to pay them through FMS & CFC. The Obama/Trump didn’t think Pakistan was doing enough to deserve those funds. India got its goods because it paid for them.

Folks need to stop exaggerating India’s influence when it comes to Pakistan. Yes, India was able to blackmail European manufacturers with the phantom MMRCA competition, but it was never able to dictate terms. Pakistan still got the Saab Erieyes despite Indian blackmail and in the end the Indians canceled the whole thing and went with their 50-year pizza project Tejas. Members on this forum habitually inflate India’s influence with US arms manufacturers which is becoming annoying, to say the least. The Americans are entirely capable of selling weapons to both parties, Arabs/Israelis, Turkey/Greece, India/Pakistan etc etc.

 

[ali_raza]

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er!?

 

[GriffinsRule]

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You left off the serial # on the tail =P

 

[Safriz]

View attachment 634216

In 1994 when there was no internet in Pakistan, I wanted airplane photos and obviously could not Google it as there was no Google.
I went to the library and found addresses of two aircraft manufacturers, SAAB and Dassault .
Then from my little town in northern Pakistan I wrote letters to Saab in Sweden and Dassault in France , asking them for their airplane pictures and that I don't have any other way of getting these pics in Pakistan.
Few months later two large packages arrived at my house on the bicycle of our postman "cha-cha". It was unexpected as I thought the airplane companies won't bother and bin my letter.
Inside were posters of saab-2000 and many more planes.
My rooms walls had those pics for the next 10 years.
That feeling of joy always comes back to me whenever I see a saab-2000.

 

[Akh1112]

You’re contradicting yourself. The F-16 BLK 52s were sold despite Indian protestation. As were the AH1Z helicopters. As you have mentioned, they didn’t come due to financing issues. The Pakistanis wanted to pay them through FMS & CFC. The Obama/Trump didn’t think Pakistan was doing enough to deserve those funds. India got its goods because it paid for them.

Folks need to stop exaggerating India’s influence when it comes to Pakistan. Yes, India was able to blackmail European manufacturers with the phantom MMRCA competition, but it was never able to dictate terms. Pakistan still got the Saab Erieyes despite Indian blackmail and in the end the Indians canceled the whole thing and went with their 50-year pizza project Tejas. Members on this forum habitually inflate India’s influence with US arms manufacturers which is becoming annoying, to say the least. The Americans are entirely capable of selling weapons to both parties, Arabs/Israelis, Turkey/Greece, India/Pakistan etc etc.

I dont think i contradicted myself, if i did, i apologize. Let me break down what i meant.

"You’re contradicting yourself. The F-16 BLK 52s were sold despite Indian protestation. As were the AH1Z helicopters. As you have mentioned, they didn’t come due to financing issues. The Pakistanis wanted to pay them through FMS & CFC. The Obama/Trump didn’t think Pakistan was doing enough to deserve those funds. India got its goods because it paid for them."

So, for the Block 52's, this was at a time where the US actually needed us, when Indian protests were brushed off and India wasn't a target market for US arms. In terms of the AH-1Z's, sure, but they're a valuable COIN asset and the US recognizes this, while yes, they may be used offensively, their primary role would be COIN, something the US wants us to proactively undertake. In terms of the financing issues part, what i meant by "not wanting to pay for them" was in reference to paying the full price, since CSF and FMF subsidizes part of the cost of acquisition. That is what i meant in relation to that.

"The Obama/Trump didn’t think Pakistan was doing enough to deserve those funds. India got its goods because it paid for them."

Sure, that's why we wont be getting any new toys from the US, they don't believe we deserve the funding and they find us to be more responsive without said funding, Trump had said something along those lines. I don't see CSF/FMF being resumed for a long, long time.

"Folks need to stop exaggerating India’s influence when it comes to Pakistan. Yes, India was able to blackmail European manufacturers with the phantom MMRCA competition, but it was never able to dictate terms."

If this was maybe 5 or 10 years ago, id agree its an exaggeration, however, its simply fact that we will need to accept that the world is leaning more towards India now, its natural, everyone chases profits and sales, the fact is, India can offer more lucrative contracts than we can, unless its smaller purchases such as the MI-35's, i don't see any significant arms transfers to Pakistan in the near future from anywhere besides some of Europe, China of course and Turkey. The UK literally has India on a list of "core markets for arm transfers", to think that others wont follow suit is absurd. Heck, India had LockMart by the bal*'s when they had proposed the F-21 in where they said 'we will not sell the aircraft to anyone else if selected by India, showing our commitment to our ties with India' (paraphrased).

"Pakistan still got the Saab Erieyes despite Indian blackmail"

Cant comment on India's objections to the Erieye sales since i am not aware of them.

"in the end the Indians canceled the whole thing and went with their 50-year pizza project Tejas."

While we do like to poke fun at the Tejas for its awful development time and being far, far behind the JF-17 in terms of deployments and sales, it is still a fine aircraft and has massive growth potential like the JF-17, an AESA equipped Tejas will be a worthy opponent, its just a matter of when and what we have in our arsenal to take it on. At the current rate however, by the time the IAF actually inducts an advanced Tejas variant, we more than likely will be fielding a few squadrons of FGFA's.

 

[ali_raza]

In 1994 when there was no internet in Pakistan, I wanted airplane photos and obviously could not Google it as there was no Google.
I went to the library and found addresses of two aircraft manufacturers, SAAB and Dassault .
Then from my little town in northern Pakistan I wrote letters to Saab in Sweden and Dassault in France , asking them for their airplane pictures and that I don't have any other way of getting these pics in Pakistan.
Few months later two large packages arrived at my house on the bicycle of our postman "cha-cha". It was unexpected as I thought the airplane companies won't bother and bin my letter.
Inside were posters of saab-2000 and many more planes.
My rooms walls had those pics for the next 10 years.
That feeling of joy always comes back to me whenever I see a saab-2000.

wow must be a memorable time

 

[Cookie Monster]

They will be integrated in Pakistan.

Brother, last time I said something on the Erieye, clueless people got upset. This time I'm double minded.

U can speak ur mind(of course it goes without saying that nothing confidential is to be said)...ignore the haters. Even if it's just a guess or rumors...the readers can simply read and choose to believe/wait and see/ignore/etc. Don't let anonymous internet nobodies dictate ur right to express urself.

 

[loanranger]

In 1994 when there was no internet in Pakistan, I wanted airplane photos and obviously could not Google it as there was no Google.
I went to the library and found addresses of two aircraft manufacturers, SAAB and Dassault .
Then from my little town in northern Pakistan I wrote letters to Saab in Sweden and Dassault in France , asking them for their airplane pictures and that I don't have any other way of getting these pics in Pakistan.
Few months later two large packages arrived at my house on the bicycle of our postman "cha-cha". It was unexpected as I thought the airplane companies won't bother and bin my letter.
Inside were posters of saab-2000 and many more planes.
My rooms walls had those pics for the next 10 years.
That feeling of joy always comes back to me whenever I see a saab-2000.

Thats an awesome story.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Still seems we have enough AWECs but are some what short on fighters now..
Erieye system us perfect for f16s and aim120 but what about jf17 & sd 10..
I doubt sd10 can talk to erieye

As per what I have gleaned off of PDF...Erieye has both Link 16 and Link 17. So it should be able to communicate with both F16s and JF17s...and presumably provide guidance to AIM120 and SD10s.

Perhaps someone knowledgeable can confirm the above...
@Dazzler @HRK @Quwa @araz

 

[Blacklight]

As per what I have gleaned off of PDF...Erieye has both Link 16 and Link 17. So it should be able to communicate with both F16s and JF17s...and presumably provide guidance to AIM120 and SD10s.

Perhaps someone knowledgeable can confirm the above...
@Dazzler @HRK @Quwa @araz

Affirmative.

In 1994 when there was no internet in Pakistan, I wanted airplane photos and obviously could not Google it as there was no Google.
I went to the library and found addresses of two aircraft manufacturers, SAAB and Dassault .
Then from my little town in northern Pakistan I wrote letters to Saab in Sweden and Dassault in France , asking them for their airplane pictures and that I don't have any other way of getting these pics in Pakistan.
Few months later two large packages arrived at my house on the bicycle of our postman "cha-cha". It was unexpected as I thought the airplane companies won't bother and bin my letter.
Inside were posters of saab-2000 and many more planes.
My rooms walls had those pics for the next 10 years.
That feeling of joy always comes back to me whenever I see a saab-2000.

It is good stories like this, that inspire our next generation, to never take a backseat.

We should have a dedicated thread for incidents like this.

 

[SQ8]

https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/saab-2000-lands-secretive-aewandc-deal/138431.article

 

[Akh1112]

As per what I have gleaned off of PDF...Erieye has both Link 16 and Link 17. So it should be able to communicate with both F16s and JF17s...and presumably provide guidance to AIM120 and SD10s.

Perhaps someone knowledgeable can confirm the above...
@Dazzler @HRK @Quwa @araz

Erieyes are compatible with ALL standards, including link 16 and 17, HOWEVER, for them to be able to guide missiles, atleast for the AIM-120(i assume the SD-10 will be similar) the launch aircraft MUST send it instructions since its reciever is in the X-Band, as opposed to the Erieye's S/L-Band transmitter(i assume since i cant find anything specific, however, that assumption isn't baseless but is based off of similar AWACS systems) , how it would work is that the launch platform would need to act as a medium between the Erieye, for example, The F-16 launches the missile, the Erieye provides midcourse guidance to the missile BUT it cant DIRECTLY provide it to the missile so it has to provide the information to the F-16 which will then transmit the data onto the missile to adjust its course or whatever

 

[HRK]

Erieye has both Link 16

Initial batch of SAAB-2000 Erieye AEW&C had link-16 on the basis of this we should assume that previous batch of 3 additional Erieye sys are also integrated with link-16; but as SAAB is open modular system therefore there might be a possibility to even integrate customized Data link, again as per SAAB marketing material its Data Fusion Engine in Reporting Center System (RCS) could fuse Data and information from other sensors to create complete Air, Sea and Land picture and to send it to all integrated operators so practically it eliminate the need to integrate any other Data link with Erieye AEW&C.

In any case system of SAAB Erieye AEW&C is capable to establish complete aerial picture integration or no integration of Link-17 with SAAB Erieye is not an issue .....

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/saab-2000-lands-secretive-aewandc-deal/138431.article

If this is a Pakistani order, it would bring the PAF's fleet to 8-9 aircraft.

It would be interesting if the PAF will continue operating the ZDK03, or if it would look at transferring those to the PN. The latter had wanted its own AEW&C (Hawkeye 2000 on the P-3B), but now, it's expanding its own network-enabled assets.

 

[Rafi]

If this is a Pakistani order, it would bring the PAF's fleet to 8-9 aircraft.

It would be interesting if the PAF will continue operating the ZDK03, or if it would look at transferring those to the PN. The latter had wanted its own AEW&C (Hawkeye 2000 on the P-3B), but now, it's expanding its own network-enabled assets.

As the Airforce is responsible for defense of entire airspace including over the sea, they will probably stay with the PAF, the thing that could change that would be if PN acquired a large fighter arm.

Considering all the services are going to be data linked and then data linked with each other, we will be probably going down the joint theatre commands route, which is going to be challenging and expensive and will require a change of mindset, and training in the higher level training institutes.