Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[araz]

which AWAS is the better in the world can you name them

Well unfortunately for us, Phalcon is one of the best , if not the best along with E3C.
Araz

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Well unfortunately for us, Phalcon is one of the best , if not the best along with E3C.
Araz

sir Phalcon and erieye early warning capability are almost the same except Phalcon has inboard control system while Erieye is ground linked system? PAF was more interested in MESA but due to tight budget they chose the cheaper and effective Erieye..

 

[nitesh]

sir Phalcon and erieye early warning capability are almost the same except Phalcon has inboard control system while Erieye is ground linked system? PAF was more interested in MESA but due to tight budget they chose the cheaper and effective Erieye..

23march isn't it is a major difference between two systems

 

[Myth_buster_1]

23march isn't it is a major difference between two systems

not at all.. one is ground linked system while the other has inboard system both are AESA and have same detection capability..

 

[nitesh]

not at all.. one is ground linked system while the other has inboard system both are AESA and have same detection capability..

So Erieye is dependent on ground systems which will be vulnerable to attack where as phalcon can do the job independently, so i think it is a major difference.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

So Erieye is dependent on ground systems which will be vulnerable to attack where as phalcon can do the job independently, so i think it is a major difference.

just from where did you come to this BS conclusion? any links to go with your claim?

 

[nitesh]

just from where did you come to this BS conclusion? any links to go with your claim?

First of all I had not started the this vs that thing. I was responding to your post.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

First of all I had not started the this vs that thing. I was responding to your post.

dude i was comparing + and - points for both platforms while you jumped in for a pissing contest.. please construct solid proof before you come to your genius conlusion..

Erieye is dependent on ground systems which will be vulnerable to attack

you just made a fool out of your self.. my advice, dont make such fanboy stunts...

 

[nitesh]

dude i was comparing + and - points for both platforms while you jumped in for a pissing contest.. please construct solid proof before you come to your genius conlusion..
you just made a fool out of your self.. my advice, dont make such fanboy stunts...

check the post no 321 which was posted by you and then post no 322 first.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

This article is 4 years old, but just wanted to bring up the point if PAK-Saudi AEW&C deal is still going on? I mean sure it will release financial burden off Pakistan.
___________
Defensenews.com

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan Eye Joint AEW Buy
By BARBARA OPALL-ROME,

TEL AVIV Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are discussing a joint purchase of 14 airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft based on Sweden’s Saab 2000 regional airliner and the Erieye radar and sensor suite by Ericsson Microwave Systems, according to an analyst specializing in South Asian military affairs.

In an Oct. 29 interview from Kuala Lumpur, Prasun Sengupta estimated the aircraft would cost up to $1.7 billion, the bulk of which would be funded by Saudi Arabia in exchange for in-country training of Saudi crews by Pakistani Air Force personnel.

The prospective deal, which he characterized as in advanced stages of negotiation, envisions seven aircraft for Saudi Arabia and seven for Pakistan. Used Saab 2000s would be refurbished with the Ericsson AEW&C system. As part of the package, Pakistan also would receive seven basic Saab 2000s, which would be upgraded for use by its national airline, Pakistan National Airlines, and Saudi Arabia would acquire an additional three or more used Saab 2000s for spare parts, Sengupta said.

“Since the [Saab 2000] production line is closed, these aircraft will be bought back from regional operators and sent for depot-level maintenance to bring the airframe and the engines back to zero-life — practically mint condition,” Sengupta said. “Then Ericsson, as a subcontractor to Saab, will install and integrate its Erieye system, which has already been validated in this aircraft.”
A Pakistani purchase of AEW aircraft would follow India’s recent acquisition of similar Israeli planes, while Saudi Arabia may be looking to replace its 1980s-vintage Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft.

Saab spokesman Peter Larsson confirmed the discussions with Pakistan, but declined comment on whether there were any talks under way involving the Saudis. However, several European sources confirmed there are talks under way on unspecified defense deals between the Swedes and Saudi Arabia. Ericsson declined to comment on the matter, and Swedish defense officials did not respond to requests for comment. A Pakistani diplomat in Washington said he had no knowledge of the deal. Sengupta said he was “100 percent certain” of the joint Saudi-Pakistani discussions with Saab and other industry partners. He said his information was verified by Swedish and European industry sources in Kuala Lumpur and by participants in Pakistan’s International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS 2004) held Sept. 14-17 in Karachi, Pakistan.

Pakistani Press Reports

Since Gen. Pervez Musharraf, Pakistani president and Army chief of staff, visited Stockholm in July, various Pakistani media outlets have published reports of an imminent purchase of at least six of the Saab/Erieye AEW&C planes.

A mid-July report in the Pakistan Times also noted that Musharraf’s visit paved the way for a visit later that month by Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, chief of staff of the Pakistani Air Force. According to the paper, Saadat was expected to pick up where Musharraf left off with regard to technical aspects of the deal. Sengupta’s assessment, however, is the first that links Saudi Arabia with Pakistan in the prospective AEW&C deal. The analyst said that the Swedish government had approved the sale, notwithstanding its policy of denying weaponry to regions of conflict, since the Saab 2000 is a commercial aircraft and the Erieye AEW&C system is defensive in nature.

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have been close strategic allies since the early 1970s, when a Pakistani Air Force squadron was deployed in the Saudi kingdom to assist air defense operations. A 2003 defense cooperation agreement has led to contracts to supply Saudi forces with Pakistani-built Al-Khalid tanks, Super Mushhak trainers, armored personnel carriers and Baktar Shikan wire-guided anti-armor missiles.

“Pakistan has always been there to meet the military needs of Saudi Arabia,” said Shireen Mazari , the director general of the PISS (Pakistan Institute of Strategic Studies) in Islamabad. “The two countries have been for some time sharing intelligence, holding joint military exercises and exchanging defense technology.” Most regional analysts believe that the two neighboring states have been fulfilling each other’s needs; Pakistan supplies defense technology and training, the oil-rich kingdom provides cash.

“The Kingdom has always provided big financial support to Pakistan,” said Anwar Eshki, chief executive of the Jeddah-based Middle East Center for Strategic and Legal Studies. “Saudi officials wish to benefit from Pakistani military expertise and defense technology.”

Saudi Arabia also has been the main source of energy to Pakistan, which is another main reason for Islamabad to develop a “unique relationship” with Riyadh, said Talat Masood, an Islamabad-based defense analyst and a retired Pakistani Army lieutenant general.

Response To Phalcon?

Israeli industry and defense sources could not confirm the existence of talks on a joint Saudi-Pakistani AEW&C procurement deal.

“We have no information on these discussions, but it wouldn’t surprise me. It sounds like a realistic response to our sale of the Phalcon to India,” an Israeli defense official said. He was referring to the $1.1 billion, three-aircraft sale of advanced AEW&C aircraft by Elta Systems to the Indian Air Force, which was concluded in early 2004.

When reporters at the IDEAS event in Karachi asked Pakistan’s Saadat about Indian-Israeli cooperation, he said, “We have no right to object to close relations between India and Israel, but we have concerns and are fully aware of our defense needs.”

Sengupta said the prospective Saudi-Pakistani AEW deal could prompt the Indian Air Force to exercise an option to buy an additional three Phalcons from Israel by 2007. “In light of the impending acquisition of the Saab/Erieye by Pakistan, it is more or less a foregone conclusion that New Delhi will exercise options for an additional three Israeli AEW aircraft.” {I sense Isreali making hard sell indirectly:Arun}

AWACS Alternative

The Israeli official noted that Tel Aviv and its U.S. congressional supporters likely would object to a repeat of the multibillion-dollar U.S. sale to Saudi Arabia of five Boeing 707-based AWACS aircraft, a deal finalized in 1981 after contentious and protracted debate between the executive and legislative branches of the U.S. government.

Deliveries of those aircraft were completed in 1987, and Boeing announced in September 2003 that it had completed a $60 million upgrade to the fleet’s mission computers and other hardware and software for the Saudi fleet. A Washington industry source who follows U.S. export licensing matters said the U.S. State Department likely would limit any kind of follow-on package that the kingdom might have sought from Boeing and the U.S. Air Force. “Getting the data is one thing, but when it comes to acquiring the final synthesized picture, that’s where the degree of control is very high,” the U.S. source said. “The Saudis won’t have access to this, and that could be one of the reasons for seeking an alternative.”

A European industry source said the U.S. company is in talks with the Saudis about a further round of upgrades on the 707s. Boeing officials say they are unaware of the Saudi-Pakistan discussions with Sweden. But Dave Sloan, a company spokesman, said Boeing “continues to support our Saudi customers and are ready to talk to them about any further requirements.” But, the European source said, one of the options was to ditch the E-3s and purchase a new system. While the Saab 2000, normally a 50-seat airliner, has shorter range and endurance than a Boeing aircraft, air warfare experts say the Erieye system is highly capable.

Its active, phased-array, electronically scanning and dual-side looking radar has an instrumented range of 450 kilometers and is able to detect multiple fighter-sized targets from 350 kilometers or more. Saab sources defended the choice of aircraft, saying the 2000 has a highly automated “glass cockpit” and an endurance of up to nine hours.

The Swedes also have also offered the 2000 to Malaysia, competing against the Ericsson-equipped Embraer 145 and the Northrop Grumman E-2 Hawkeye for a four-aircraft, $1 billion sale, a Saab executive said. • Andrew Chuter contributed to this report from London, Riad Kahwaji from Dubai, Gopal Ratnam from Washington, and Pierre Tran from Paris.

 

[araz]

This article is 4 years old, but just wanted to bring up the point if PAK-Saudi AEW&C deal is still going on? I mean sure it will release financial burden off Pakistan.
___________
Defensenews.com

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan Eye Joint AEW Buy
By BARBARA OPALL-ROME,

23 march.
Brother although there are various news around and there may have been some plans in the past, as a general idea, we should stop thinking along the lines of someone buying the stuff that we want to buy just to alleviate our financial burden. Things dont quite work out that way, as every nation has its own defence requirements and priorities.They dont always coincide with ours.
In any case Saudia has recently had its E3s upgraded by Boeing. I dont see them buying Erieyes simply because their purchases are alwys influenced by US pressure and they will not be allowed to chuck their E3s to buy Erieyes
My choice of language is intentional to make you understand the pressures that they are put under.
Regards
Araz

 

[fatman17]

AWACS of The World Directory:

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN AIR FORCE: 6 Boeing 737-700 Wedgetail aircraft to be delivered between now and 2010. assigned to 42 wing / 2 sqdn based at williamtown, NSW.

BRAZILIZN AIR FORCE: 5 R-99/A AEW aircraft based at Anapolis AB.
3 R-99B (EMB-145RS) remote sensing aircraft.

CHILEAN AIR FORCE: 1 Boeing 707 Phalcon AEW aircraft based at Mataveri Int. Airport.
Beech A99 ELINT airctaft.

PEOPLES LIBERATION ARMY AIR FORCE (CHINA): following the cancellation of the IAI/Beriev A-50I deal in July 2000 due to US pressure, the chinese govt. decided to press on by itself. deliveries of the resulting KJ-2000 to Wuxi Shuofang Airfield began in early 2006, but all four KJ-2000's are now based on Chongming island.
because Ilyushin no longer produces the IL-76 and Beriev has made it more expensive to procure the type, China has taken three IL-76MD transports from the quasi-civil China united airlines (serials B-4040, 4041 and 4043) and converted them to KJ-2000 standard. one a/c is fitted with an in-flight re-fuelling probe. this is presumably the IL-76/A-50I sourced from Russia.

ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AIRFORCE:4 E-2C Hawkeyes. are being upgraded to Hawkeye 2000 standard.

FRENCH AIR FORCE: 4 E-3F Hawkeyes operating from Avord.
FRENCH NAVY: 2 E-2C Hawkeye 2000. operating from the french aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle.

HELLENIC AIR FORCE: 4 EMB-145 AEW&C. even though Greece's a/c have been delivered, they are not fully operational due to delays and integration problems.

INDIAN AIR FORCE: The IAF has two types of AEW on order. the Phalcon equipped A-50Ehl should be delivered in early 2009 after delays of more than a year due to problems with upgrading the IL-76s with stronger airframes and more powerful engines. the first A-50Ehl performed its inagural flight on Nov-2007 and arrived for modification on Jan-2008.
each Phalcon system will cost more than US$500m making the a/c extremely expensive. as a result, India has chosen to develop a smaller more cost effective complement in the form of the Embraer EMB-145 with a locally developed radar. although originally scheduled for delivery in 2010, it seems likely that the EMB-145s will only enter service around 2013.

ISRAEL AIR AND SPACE ARM: 1 G-550 Conformal AEW (CAEW) known as Eitam.
3 G-550 Special Electronic Mission Aircraft (SEMA).

JAPAN AIR SELF DEFENCE: 13 E-2C Hawkeyes. in service with the 601 Hikotai sqdn at Misawa. being upgraded to Hawkeye 2000 standard.
4 Boeing E-767 AWACS.

MEXICAN AIR FORCE: 1 EMB-145 AEW&C.
2 EMB-145 MP maritime patrol.
MEXICAN NAVY: 3 E-2C Hawkeyes (from Israel). re-furbished for counter-narcotics role.
EMB-145 AEW&C.

NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY ORGANISATION (NATO): 16 Boeing E-3 Sentry. operation out of MOB Geilenkirchen, Germany.

PAKISTAN AIR FORCE: For a long time Pakistan has attempted to get its own AEW aircraft like its rival India, but this has been a difficult process due to the sanctions which followed the nations nuclear testing. However, after much delay the PAF is to receive five Saab 2000 AWACS at a cost of ~US$ 1.2 billion. the first a/c was rolled out on March 2008, and will be delivered in mid-2009.

RUSSIAN AIR FORCE: Bereiv A-50 Mainstay AEW. upgraded to A-50U and A-50M standards.

ROYAL SAUDI AIR FORCE: 5 Boeing E-3A Sentry. supplanted by 8 KE-3 inflight refuelling tankers.

REPUBLIC OF SINGAPORE AIR FORCE:4 Gulfstream G-550 CAEW in the process of delivery by 2010 to replace the E-2C Hawkeyes.

REPUBLIC OF KOREA AIR FORCE (SOUTH KOREA): 4 Boeing 737 AEW&C aircraft to be delivered between 2011 and 2013.

SWEDISH AIR FORCE: 6 S-100Bs ARGUS. upgraded to S-100D AEW standard.

REPUBLIC OF CHINA AIR FORCE (TAIWAN): 6 E-2C Hawkeyes. 4 E-2T Hawkeyes, 2 E-2K Hawkeyes. all are being upgraded to Hawkeye 2000 standard.

ROYAL THAILAND AIR FORCE: 2 Saab 340s. only one will be converted to AEW standard.

TURKISH AIR FORCE: 4 Boeing 737 AEW&C aircraft. first a/c delivered in 2006.

ROYAL AIR FORCE (UK): 7 Boeing E-3Ds operating from Waddington.
13 AEW Sea Kings.

UNITED STATES AIR FORCE: 34 Boeing E-3s based at Tinker, AFB in Oklahoma. total of 6 AWACS sqdns.
US NAVY: 28 E-2 Hawkeye a/c operating from the Navy's Carrier Wings.
US COAST GUARD: 1 EC-130V Hercules AEW.
US CUSTOMS & BORDER PROTECTION: 8 P-3 AEW&C.

Source: AFM-August-08

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan AF Saab 2000 Erieye Now Flight Testing:
For its maiden flight after Erieye conversion is Saab 2000 SE-045 (c/n 045, ex LY-SBW), the first of these a/c for the PAF. the a/c had been formally rolled out at the swedish airfield at Linkoping on March 2008 and was already in PAF markings, with serial 10045, but these have since been removed while the a/c undertakes its flight test program in Sweden. later this year a standard Saab 2000, 09019 (c/n 019, ex F-GMVB) will be delivered to the PAF for training and to undertake routine transport tasks. the remaining Erieye a/c for the PAF will be 10040 (c/n 040, ex F-GMVE), 10049 (c/n 049, ex F-GMVG) and one other, which will be either c/n 023 (ex LY-SBD) or 025 (ex LY-SBC). SAAB.
AFM-Aug-08

 

[fatman17]

Saab 100B Argus:
For more than 25 years Pakistan has been trying to get its own AEW platform and finally succeeded in June 2006 when it signed a deal with Saab. Pakistan will purchase 5 Erieye radar systems mounted on Saab 2000 a/c which are simply larger and powerful versions of the Saab 340. however the Saab 2000 Erieye a/c are vastly different to the S100 series. they feature 5 operator stations and an HES-21 electronic warfare suite that includes laser, radar and missile approach warning sensors and countermeasures dispensers. most significantly the radar has been made more powerful and is now able to detect hovering helicopters and track small naval targets out to 220 miles (350Km). in addition endurance has been increased to nearly 10 hours. the first Saab 2000 Erieye is scheduled for delivery to the PAF in mid 2009.

 

[shehbazi2001]

Geo is reporting that Pakistan has signed an agreement with China for 4 AWACS aircrafts. Finally its coming.