Pakistan's ad in Wall Street Journal on 9/11

[cyphercide]

What a waste of time and money. It's like advertising the losses of jews in holocaust to nazis and asking them to feel sorry about it. Americans couldn't give a **** if whole of the asia goes up in a nuclear war. Plus why are we trying to get american validation? Who seriously gives a f*ck what they think about us?

I wouldn't be so sure about that.If you recall,since the "advertisement" was published,there was a knee jerk reaction from the American camp that issued a statement along the lines of "We couldn't have done it without Pakistan". Invoking the higher ethical ground to the American masses rather than just it's government might be the best way to proceed given the current scenario.

Public opinion remains a powerful weapon.It changed the tides for Vietnam and wrapped up Iraq speedily since the majority of the American public were against it.It is the appropriate means to confront the US too considering the remaining alternative of leveraging sides to China could end up counterproductive for Pakistan.At least,that's my take on it.

 

[Windjammer]

You don't need a P.H.D in American psychology to understand what the American public in general is thinking at the moment.All you need is a bit of common sense. Apparently the person/entity who decided to bring out the ad needs some serious counseling for thinking that the Americans will fall far their well crafted but not needed ad.

P.H.D was indeed missing when during the Kargil conflict, GOI carried out full face Ads/articles in British tabloids,.... remember the conflict didn't concern the British Government/Public (General) however, there were some ridiculing the exercise while others were interested in the motive. You do realise that it's Pakistan bearing the brunt in this so called WOT, which was incidentally initiated by the Americans. No doubt, due to bad timing, the Ad will be sidelined by many however there are those who will note the substance within, but as VCheng pointed out, it needs to be a sustained effort...... Countries from around the world are known to hire American firms to make them look good in Washington.

 

[Vassnti]

I would agree with you on the quality of the advert, and the utility of it, but that is separate from whether it was appropriate or not, which IMO, given my reasoning above, was appropriate.

There is the only point of contention and there we seem to be holding different debates.

You about the right to do so and me about the effectivness of the way it was done.

Perhaps both sides need to step back take a deep breath and start from a point of mutual respect, no one involved has to like the other side but it is in everyones benefit to be working together.

Interesting line,

were the US Establishment and media not spitting on Pakistan's sacrifices and constraints and smearing it and denigrating it ever chance it got, Pakistan would not have had to take the advert out in the first place

Considering all the celebration each time Nato troops are killed the constant accusation that every thing in Pakistan is a CIA/blackwater conspiracy you could take that from the other side as well.

were the Pakistan politicians and media not spitting on America's sacrifices and constraints and smearing it and denigrating it ever chance it got, Pakistan would not have had to take the advert out in the first place

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As I review your comments and I invite other fair minded and responsible persons to do the same -- it is undeniable that Pakistani audiences and US and world audiences are not in Concorde -- So what we have is a dueling narratives thing going on -- it's counter productive - Pakistanis and US narrative makes are at odds with regard to political outcomes in Afghanistan - US narrative makers have adhered to the basics "Keep it simple, Stupid", they have associated Islamist ideology, terrorism, the deaths of innocents at the hands of Islamists, danger to the world, possibility of loose nukes, corruption, lack of transparency, constant threat of military overthrowing the elected government, in a simple message -- these have identified the bad guys, they have highlighted who the bad guys and WHY, WHAT makes them bad guys - and look at the poverty of the Pakistani position , who are the BAD guys? Pakistanis have multiple answers, the likes AM and others will point to the civilian government -- What makes the bad guy bad guys in Pakistan?? Again, a multiplicity of answers - Liberal fascists, islamists, Wahabis, corrupt policemen.

So for once, just take advice -- get the narrative right - the narrative must explain, who are the good, why - who are the bad, why- once this is set up, tie the loose ends to the good or the bad

Muse, complex problems cannot be properly explained, let alone resolved, with simplistic solutions. I would argue that complexity of Pakistan's position on the situation in Afghanistan and the 'multiple bad guys' some of US point to when trying to advocate change in Pakistan reflect the complexity of the problem and an attempt to understand, define and analyze the problem from all its aspects.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Problem is Americans treat 9/11 with a reverence that is religious. Putting the add in at this time is about as sensitive as sitting on the steps of a Mosque during Ramadan eating a pork sandwich.

A better analogy, if you want to argue 'religious reverence' would be a comparison to the 'Danish Mohammed Cartoons' - and if Americans/Westerners could not really understand or care for the 'outrage' many Muslims felt at the 'insensitivity' of those cartoons and their republication by others just to 'make a point', then there is no room to be arguing against the 'insensitivity of the Pakistani advert'.

And for the record, I didn't give a hoot about the cartoons.

Yes Pakistan has lost a great deal but you dont go to a persons funeral as they are burying their brother and tell them yes but i lost two brothers, its not the time they want to hear it.

No one is burying a 'brother' here, and were the US Establishment and media not spitting on Pakistan's sacrifices and constraints and smearing it and denigrating it ever chance it got, Pakistan would not have had to take the advert out in the first place.

And seriously who did they hire to do it, there are half a dozen people here on PDF that could have come up with some thing better

I would agree with you on the quality of the advert, and the utility of it, but that is separate from whether it was appropriate or not, which IMO, given my reasoning above, was appropriate.

 

[karan.1970]

A better analogy, if you want to argue 'religious reverence' would be a comparison to the 'Danish Mohammed Cartoons' - and if Americans/Westerners could not really understand or care for the 'outrage' many Muslims felt at the 'insensitivity' of those cartoons and their republication by others just to 'make a point', then there is no room to be arguing against the 'insensitivity of the Pakistani advert'.

Hmm.. Not too sure.. The cartoons were the work of an individual for a target audience that didnt get offended by them and were not intended to generate positive and sympathetic feelings in Muslims

This advert on the other hand was Pakistan Govt's attempt to blow its trumpet around its efforts in WoT and to mold the US public opinion..

Hence the comparison doesnt fit that well.. A large part of USA population believes that Pakistan is the source of terror threats that USA faces. To them, this advert would probably look retarded at best and mocking (considering the timing) at worst.

So if the agenda was to create positive public sentiment in the US, I believe the timing was as screwed up as it could get..

[/QUOTE]

 

[Developereo]

A large part of USA population believes that Pakistan is the source of terror threats that USA faces.

A large part of the USA population believes that UFOs are real and evolution is a myth. People believe what the media spoonfeeds them. Most of the media pundits simply paraphrase each other.

This is a perceptions war in the media and Pakistan is fighting the American administration on their home turf -- aided by the entire American media. The Americans have been desperate to find a scapegoat and it might as well be Pakistan.

The core question the Americans never articulate is this: even if the Taliban leadership supposedly resides in Pakistan, why do they find it so easy to find accomplices and foot soldiers throughout Afghanistan?

 

[SMC]

A large part of US public also believed that Iraq had WMDs. 85% in fact.

 

[Dance]

LOL at TOI(let) posting ONLY the negative comments from the comment section.

Haters will always be haters

 

[karan.1970]

A large part of the USA population believes that UFOs are real and evolution is a myth. People believe what the media spoonfeeds them. Most of the media pundits simply paraphrase each other.

This is a perceptions war in the media and Pakistan is fighting the American administration on their home turf -- aided by the entire American media. The Americans have been desperate to find a scapegoat and it might as well be Pakistan.

The core question the Americans never articulate is this: even if the Taliban leadership supposedly resides in Pakistan, why do they find it so easy to find accomplices and foot soldiers throughout Afghanistan?

The thread is not about whether the American public's perception is right or wrong.. and how their perception impacts the returns of the self serving, transparent advert, specially on the anniversary of an attack in which a lot of people in USA believe, Pakistan had a direct or indirect role.

 

[Mike2011]

AD confirms that hard times ahead for pakistan. Without American AID pak currency will devalue like no tomorrow.
Without freebie US military hardware, pak army is sitting ducks.

 

[Stumper]

Feel sorry to intercept this intelligent debate .

In my current job , im often asked to provide inputs to the Marketing team (Dont confuse with sales). And i think many critic of his advertisement are missing the point that this Ad is a PR advertisement and not a Marketting advertisement.

So what is the difference between both? (Yes, i admit both do overlap on occassions)

1)Marketting is focussed towards "selling" product/viewpoint ....Convincing/Influencing someone to buy product/viewpoint. A PR is focussed towards changing/maintaining "perceptions and awareness" and as single point of information distribution to outside world. GoP asking World community to invest in Pak economy to allow it to sustain WoT is a Marketting activity. GoP informing world community about its losses is a PR activity.

2)A Marketting team is more directed towards a focussed audience and a focussed product/message. Ex;Selling a Blackberry device to corporate customer highlighting easy access to corporate emails.
A PR team is generally directed towards masses and is not restricted to a product/message. Ex; Blackberry announcing its positive sales revenue

3)Marketting has a tangible benefits associated with it. PR may not have direct tangible results. Ex of PR; GoP Ad about its losses in the GWOT, does not expect anything in return except to let world know that it means business in this war.

4)Marketting requires a sustained campaign, PT activity are more touch and go. This Ad by GoP is not a campaign (till date).

5)Marketting can exagerate information to be more appealing. PR is more "Matter-Of-Fact". GoP Ad states statistics which are generally acceptable.


Now, if we discount the shoddy visuals and layout, does the Ad give us an incorrect information? .. NO. Does it ask for a return benefits ? .. NO.
Was it a sustained campaign to influence ? .. NO. Has it exaggerated information? .... NO.... Is it selling a viewpoint to the US Congress (which is in a position to aid pakistan) ?.. NO.

By all means, its a simple PR advertisement meant to inform world about its efforts so far.
At worst, we can accuse it of being opportunistic in its timing and not overtly acknowledging the efforts of world community in the WoT.

But it does, whats its supposed to do. Make people think, about remembering the fallen Pakistani's in their prayers.

Just my 2c.

 

[jayron]

Again, a miserable failure of Pakistani diplomacy. The tone and design of the ad is arrogant and propaganda'sqe rather than evoking sympathy. It just reinforces the image of Pakistani establishment as untrustworthy, manipulative . Even for propaganda, one needs a lot of intelligence and prudence. Vietcong achieved it successfully during the vietnam war. Pakistan with its strutting arrogant army men and feudal politicians will never achieve it.

 

[Kaislerlaut]

The attack on the embassy in kabul from pakistani based militants have angered the usa administration & public

 

[below_freezing]

Seriously, F*** the US. They are a bunch of ungrateful bastards. Pakistan should cut off their supply routes, and we will see how much they appreciate Pakistan then.