Pakistan's acquisition of the U-214

[SBD-3]

So any updates on Pakistani deal or President is still dragging his feet for some other ways?

No news recently in media about PN getting U-214s. WHY?

At least one good news that Aunty Angie has won the elections. It is not that fast my friend. it will take some time

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

ho jayga Inshallah

 

[pakpower]

Does anyone knows the first actual date of inducting this submarine in the P N ?

 

[ice_man]

Does anyone knows the first actual date of inducting this submarine in the P N ?

bro we haven't even signed the deal!!! and you are talking about induction?

i hope we do it fast before the U214 becomes an outdated technology!"

 

[sancho]

Only German subs will feature self defence weapon which has the advantage of firing while submerged...

Not anymore, US also testfired a AIM-9X underwater:

AIM-9X Missile Demonstrates Successful Underwater Launch

 

[BATMAN]

bro we haven't even signed the deal!!! and you are talking about induction?

i hope we do it fast before the U214 becomes an outdated technology!"

Role of Naval cheif is very dubious on this one!
He should come out openly and defend this deal from coolapsing.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Not anymore, US also testfired a AIM-9X underwater:

AIM-9X Missile Demonstrates Successful Underwater Launch

IDAS and Aim-9x sub launch have pros and cons.

SL Aim-9x can be decoyed or evaded by counter measures but have great maneuverability.
IDAS's maneuverability is limited but has very effective counter counter measures capability which gives it a better chance of hitting ASW air crafts.

 

[mughaljee]

Brother
Growler & Others ,

What is this, Comments Please?

Why Pakistan went to Paris for submarine deal?
PML-Q Senator Sardar Mohammad Jamal Khan Leghari in a surprising revelation shocked the members of the Senate on July 30 by a claim that President Zardari had refused to approve the deal for purchase of German submarines and the file submitted to the Presidency recently had been rejected. He added that a team of Pakistani Naval officials had been receiving training on manning of sophisticated submarine in Germany for one and a half year.The Senator also claimed that the rejection of German submarine was aimed at paving the way for the purchase of French submarines and the one billion dollars were behind the latest defence deal with France.He elaborated that Pakistan already possessed the French submarine technology and needed diversified technology. He demanded that Pakistan Naval Chief should give an in-camera briefing to the legislators to clarify the position.The Senator’s criticism followed a report that Islamabad was tilting towards France rather than Germany which with much struggle had recently cleared the way for export of three submarines to Pakistan.According to defence experts, for Germany it was an economically promising but politically risky deal but despite backdoor work by Indian lobby the Germans had agreed to sell three U-214 submarines built by German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems to Pakistan for an estimated $2 billion.Defence experts told Pakistan Observer that Germany was ready and was awaiting a formal order from the Ministry of Defence.

A German team of Naval experts had visited Karachi to discuss technicalities and a Pakistan Naval team also visited Germany to make final inspection. According to reports the German government had even agreed to grant federal export credit guarantees worth nearly $1.4 billion.Sources confirm that as the deal was proceeding and 95% ready, President Asif Ali Zardari overruled his military’s preference for the German subs to take up a “better offer” from France. The change of heart was noted when President Zardari visited Paris in May and has long meeting with French President.To the surprise of many Pakistanis on the eve of President Zardari’s visit a French judge accused some “powerful Pakistanis” of having something to do with the murder of 11 French engineers in Karachi in May 2002 as a retaliation for the decision of France’s new government to cease bribe payments from the 1995 deal.Coincidentally, in 1995 too, the Pakistan People’s Party was in power when the government bought three French Agosta 90-B submarines. President Zardari was then Minister for Investment in the PPP Government while now French President Nicolas Sarkozy was a key aide to then French President Edouard Balladur. The two developed a close relationship since then.President Zardari’s decision to turn to Paris for the deal also coincided with reports that PPP Government had decided to appoint a civil servant from the District Management Group as the Ambassador of Pakistan to France. The most unusual appointment was resented by the veteran and serving diplomats at home abroad and Prime Minister had to intervene and cancel the appointment of Mohammed Jehanzeb Khan.

Opposition members here claim that the delay in the issuing of the order for the German submarines that were almost finalized in December 2008 had “something to do with President Zardari’s meeting with President Sarkozy of France in May 2009? “ They also claim that the appointment of a junior civil servant as the envoy to Paris may also be related to this decision.Defence observers say that the Government managed to silence opposition to French deal by claiming that Paris had agreed to sign a peaceful nuclear cooperation deal while Germans were reluctant to deliver such an accord. Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi had claimed during President Zardari’s visit to Paris that France had agreed to extend cooperation in nuclear technology but French officials clarified that the cooperation would be limited to the safety and security of the nuclear plants.On July 2nd when French Admiral Edouard Guillaud, Advisor to President Sarkozy visited Pakistan he met with President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.Admiral Guillaud’s visit to Pakistan was considered as part of efforts aimed at further boosting the Pak-French relations in the wake of Zardari-Sarkozy meetings in May this year.PM proposed that the governments of Pakistan and France should chalk out a roadmap for pragmatic cooperation in the field of civil nuclear energy but there was no firm response from French side.

Admiral Guillaud however, assured the prime minister that France would provide military equipment including Tiger Helicopters to Pakistan.Again on July 23 on the occasion of a visist by French Secretary of State for Foreign Trade, Anne Marie Idrac, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani hoped that Pakistan would sign framework agreements with France on defence, security and energy this year and said that Pakistan wanted a long-term strategic partnership with France.Ms Idrac promised her country’s continued support to Pakistan in its efforts to overcome economic difficulties and win the war against terror. She said she would hold detailed discussions on economic and energy agreements. Ms Idrac made it clear that a proposed partnership between Pakistan and France on civilian nuclear energy would be limited to nuclear safety and security.What we propose is something very important, which is the possibility for technical people to discuss very precisely what can be done in terms of safety and security for the existing civil nuclear plants,’ she had clarified.

"http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/2009/07/why-pakistan-went-to-paris-for.html"

 

[sancho]

Taiwan in talks with Germany over four U- 214 SSK

Taiwan is considering purchasing four German-built submarines that had been rejected by the Greek Navy, a report said Wednesday. According to Next Magazine, Taiwan's military approached Kiel-based shipbuilder Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) for four Class 214s after Athens rejected them for not meeting standard requirements.

"The defence ministry has sent personnel to Germany, who have discussed a deal with the shipbuilder," the popular Taipei-based weekly said, citing an unnamed military source.

Taiwan's defence ministry said it was not aware of the report and would continue negotiations to buy submarines from the United States, the island's leading arms supplier.

Taiwan and mainland China have been governed separately since the end of a 1949 civil war, but Beijing has repeatedly threatened to invade should the island declare formal independence.

Beijing has previously asked the United States to permanently end arm sales to Taiwan. Washington is the island's leading arms supplier, despite switching diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing in 1979.

Taiwanese President Ma Ying-jeou, who took over from independence-leaning Chen Shui-bian in 2008, had said the island needed to secure defensive weapons from the United States despite warming ties with China.

The Taiwanese navy currently operates a fleet of four submarines, but only two of them, Dutch-built, could be deployed in the event of war. The other two were built by the United States in the 1940s.

ASIAN DEFENCE: Taiwan in talks with Germany over four U- 214 SSK

This would include the U214 that is ready now, so less chances for PN to get it.

 

[truepakistani17]

yeap i also heared about the report claiming Taiwan showing intrest in these subs, well if Taiwan proceed with the deal the germans will be more then happy to sell them rather then the controversial deal with Paksitan. i hope the gov of pakistan can take some proactive steps and move ahead with the deal as soon as possible or we may end up at the losing end!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

yeap i also heared about the report claiming Taiwan showing intrest in these subs, well if Taiwan proceed with the deal the germans will be more then happy to sell them rather then the controversial deal with Paksitan. i hope the gov of pakistan can take some proactive steps and move ahead with the deal as soon as possible or we may end up at the losing end!

you are misunderstanding alot of things..

PN initial plan is to sing a contract with HDW for the construction of Type-214 building facilities under TOT 3 type-214 will be constructed. How ever if PN sees that it can not wait 5 years they may order 1 type-214 most probably greek Papanikolis... its not that pakistan is the most hated country and we wont get it simply becuase of this reason.. but it is is more got to do with who ever comes first with the money gets it first..

 

[abbasniazi]

I think germans would sell those subs to taiwan because taiwan can pay for all four simultaneously, whereas, pakistan is not in a position to do so.

pakistan would surely go for the 5 year plan which involves TOT and slow delivery of subs, in my opinion pakistanis are confident that they can counter indian navy with present force.

However, they are trying to procure U-214s for future induction of ACs and submarines by Indian Navy.

Had pakistan been comfortable with its economic position it'd have surly opted for the Greek's leftover U-214s.

 

[mughaljee]

Now , i can bet, the deal will finalized in favour of Germany , and i am happy :

 

[ice_man]

well if we sit around for too long the Germans might stop looking our way!!!! and well the PN chief is a man closely linked to zardari because one of the minsters of the cabinet is his brother!!!!

i don't even know what boat besides the scorpene can the french offer us!

 

[TaimiKhan]

well if we sit around for too long the Germans might stop looking our way!!!! and well the PN chief is a man closely linked to zardari because one of the minsters of the cabinet is his brother!!!!

i don't even know what boat besides the scorpene can the french offer us!

This was clearly demonstrated by the PN statement on the recent Kerry Lugar Bill when they went against the Army. It shows who is in command of the Navy.

But as we all know, Navy doesn't matter in any of the political scenario, nor is there any importance of PN chief. COAS is the top man, with the Air Chief following behind him.