Pakistan's acquisition of the U-214

[araz]

Perhaps sir however in a time when the world is facing an economic melt down and there is a huge recession world wide, imo no country in its right state of mind can afford to loose million of dollars and that too just to please Israel or India.

Icecold.
i hope that the day will come when pakistan will have the fianacial and moral clout to make other nations honour their contracts. At the moment we dont and hence my statement. You can see how our Governemnt still appears rudderless. I hope it changes in time. As to the deal, Insha Allah we will go ahead and sign it. PN might have held off under pressure from IMF as well. The other reason is known.All I can hope for is that it does materialize.
waSalam
Araz

 

[sancho]

Perhaps sir however in a time when the world is facing an economic melt down and there is a huge recession world wide, imo no country in its right state of mind can afford to loose million of dollars and that too just to please Israel or India.

I don't think it's only to please Israel and India and you won't get it faster only because there is a huge recession. Here in Germany there are some left sided political parties that are always against military, war and weapon sales. That makes deals like this not so easy and especially since the Taliban take over some regions in north Pakistan (that is the way it's reported here) the public opinion of Pakistan is not the best. Maybe the time till the elections would help and also I think more economic oriented parties will win, what could make it easier, but ToT will still be a problem.

 

[SQ8]

Pretty soon it will be cancelled, Since the situation here is getting worse day by day. Reports of Taliban in Karachi confirmed by the Taliban themselves

 

[Arsalan]

all we can do is pray at the moment that the delays are just because ToT issue!

 

[rokhanyousafzai]

Pretty soon it will be cancelled, Since the situation here is getting worse day by day. Reports of Taliban in Karachi confirmed by the Taliban themselves

and u take the word of the taliban as a reliable source theyre just boasting about thier influence

 

[Comet]

Taliban in Karachi? duh..... wake up dude!

 

[mughaljee]

this is U214 Discussion area not taliban ?

 

[sancho]

This article confirmed what I thought.

Germany sells tanks to Qatar, delays on subs to Pakistan | Pakistan Daily

The sale of three sophisticated fuel-cell-powered Type 214 submarines to Pakistan had been approved, and an export credit of 1 billion euros (1.3 billion dollars) had been offered, but no contract had been signed yet, Spiegel said.

It said the sale negotiations were dragging out. With Pakistan destabilized by Taliban advances, the council had decided to adjourn further deliberation on the potentially controversial sale till after September.

 

[XYON]

Report: German Submarine Deal With Pakistan Goes Quiet


Dubai’s Khaleej Times relays a Der Spiegel report that Germany has approved a sale to Pakistan of 3 top-of-the-line Type 214 diesel-electric submarines with Air-Independent Propulsion. An export financing credit of EUR 1 billion euros ($1.36 billion equivalent) has reportedly been offered.

The catch? No contract. Contract negotiations were dragging out, and any contract is ultimately dependent on approval from Germany’s national security council, an inner cabinet of ministers with security portfolios. Pakistan’s insurgency has become a civil war, and recent Taliban advances are causing international observers to worry about the Pakistani government’s potential for collapse, or for a Taliban-backed coup led by the likes of Hamid Gul. In Germany, those developments reportedly led Germany’s national security council to take time away from serious matters like government efforts to ban paintball, and adjourn further deliberation on the Pakistani submarine sale until after September 2009.

If Pakistan buys the U-214s, they would join 3 new French Agosta 90B class diesel-electric boats equipped with MESMA AIP systems, and 2 Agosta 70 submarines commissioned in 1979-1980. The U-214s sit alongside the U-212As as the most modern submarines in the U-209 family, the world’s most popular line of diesel-electric submarines. Their Siemens AIP systems allow them to run submerged at reduced speeds for up to 2-3 weeks without surfacing for air, or at full speed for a shorter period of time.

 

[Rank]

Report: German Submarine Deal With Pakistan Goes Quiet


Dubai’s Khaleej Times relays a Der Spiegel report that Germany has approved a sale to Pakistan of 3 top-of-the-line Type 214 diesel-electric submarines with Air-Independent Propulsion. An export financing credit of EUR 1 billion euros ($1.36 billion equivalent) has reportedly been offered.

The catch? No contract. Contract negotiations were dragging out, and any contract is ultimately dependent on approval from Germany’s national security council, an inner cabinet of ministers with security portfolios. Pakistan’s insurgency has become a civil war, and recent Taliban advances are causing international observers to worry about the Pakistani government’s potential for collapse, or for a Taliban-backed coup led by the likes of Hamid Gul. In Germany, those developments reportedly led Germany’s national security council to take time away from serious matters like government efforts to ban paintball, and adjourn further deliberation on the Pakistani submarine sale until after September 2009.

If Pakistan buys the U-214s, they would join 3 new French Agosta 90B class diesel-electric boats equipped with MESMA AIP systems, and 2 Agosta 70 submarines commissioned in 1979-1980. The U-214s sit alongside the U-212As as the most modern submarines in the U-209 family, the world’s most popular line of diesel-electric submarines. Their Siemens AIP systems allow them to run submerged at reduced speeds for up to 2-3 weeks without surfacing for air, or at full speed for a shorter period of time.

now pakistan go for Nuclear subz

 

[BaburCM]

^^ Spot on. Let's go for Chinese Song class nuke subs. Let's do it proper in one go. Enough of the stalling. It was a nice try and too good to be true. I wouldn't go for anything French either at this stage. The French should only be sought for electronic upgrades on the Agosta. Pakistan could easily modify the Chinese subs in order to fit the SLBMs. The same applies for the Agosta subs. They are now in an advanced stage where we should aim to fit them with SLBMs. In the meanwhile, we need to start producing locally more Agosta's with AIP systems so that the fleet can be extended. Sanctions never worked. Neither won't any blackmail. We got better alternatives. This isn't the 1990s...

 

[Kasrkin]

Pakistan’s insurgency has become a civil war, and recent Taliban advances are causing international observers to worry about the Pakistani government’s potential for collapse, or for a Taliban-backed coup led by the likes of Hamid Gul.

Hamid Gul? I have no idea where these 'reports' get their credibility from.

Banning paintball? Now thats almost as silly...

 

[sohailbutt]

Bull ****, i would term, defenceindustrydaily, is very much pro-indian, I bet the guy who wrote this is indian, nothing ever comes good out of their loud mouths for Pakistan, there is also a whole analysis on JF-17 with the name "JF-17: Stuck in Siachen?", simply ignore this.

Just wait for the operation to be over, if we succeed inshallah, expect big decisions in Pakistan's favor in september this year.

West is just waiting for the result of this operation, they will only give a green signal to these technologies along with the nuclear technology once the operation is won by Army.

 

[BaburCM]

^^ Regardless, we cannot wait for operations to succeed. The WoT won't be won in one day. There will always be obstacles and we shouldn't put our eggs in one basket. We shouldn't rely on unreliable defence suppliers. I'm just hoping that this deal doesn't go through. It's time to send a clear message across. The consequences for delaying or backtracking from deals cannot be tolerated. Besides, at this stage Pakistan has much better alternatives at disposal. I've been a staunch supporter for our navy to opt for a Chinese nuke sub. It will put PN in a different league. This is a blessing in disguise. A nuke sub deal with the Chinese would be the way forward at this point. Pakistan already has a very potent sub, namely the Agosta which it can produce locally without any strings or subtle formalities. Frankly, I don't see any added value of the U-214 in contrast to our Agosta. Additonally, we will not be able to modify these German subs for a nuke triad. We will only have an edge if we go for a genuine nuke sub with SLBM/SLCM capability and not some diesel sub with extra cells. No matter how advanced.

 

[haawk]

^^ Spot on. Let's go for Chinese Song class nuke subs. Let's do it proper in one go. Enough of the stalling. It was a nice try and too good to be true. I wouldn't go for anything French either at this stage. The French should only be sought for electronic upgrades on the Agosta. Pakistan could easily modify the Chinese subs in order to fit the SLBMs. The same applies for the Agosta subs. They are now in an advanced stage where we should aim to fit them with SLBMs. In the meanwhile, we need to start producing locally more Agosta's with AIP systems so that the fleet can be extended. Sanctions never worked. Neither won't any blackmail. We got better alternatives. This isn't the 1990s...

slbm' s??!@#$%^%^&&*(()(*&^%$# errrr...... from where?

china being your friend does not mean that she will give you everything she has !!!!!!

as for locally producing agostas every one that is produced should have french approval

and before modifying the so called nuke sub, please produce an slbm first(unless you repaint chinese stuff and show off as yours -like always)

besides ,wats up with your economy ? dont expect every country to credit you with huge stuff,
china credis you coz-1>to keep india busy
2>it has not extracted all the juice out of you(one day everything you buy in pak is going to be chinese and you would be wondering if you are in china)till then china will be with you after that ? arent chinese goods affecting your local manufacturers already?- one day all your local manufacturers will have to shut down .