Pakistanis of Greeks and Macedonians Descent

[qamar1990]

This is big disrespect towards people of subcontinent and act of showing supremacy of a failed adventure of greeks and macedonians in the subcontinent.

This Alexander tried to change the genes and hereditary of every place he invaded. But after he was bashed by Purshotam(Porus) in Punjab region of Multan(now in Pakistan) he stopped his failed adventure out of fear. Later other empires from Indian side took back the territory. And greeks/macedonians were thrown out of the subcontinent into Iran.

multan? or kharian/jehlum region?? dont lie now

Haq's Musings: Kalash Girls of Pakistan

Many Pakistanis of Chitral, Hunza, Gilgit and Nagir have long claimed descent from the Greek and the Macedonian invaders who were led into India by Alexander in 327 B.C. Among them are the Kalash people who live in Chitral, Pakistan.

Kalash Genes:


Last year, a genetic study reported in The New York Times found that the Kalash people's DNA seems to indicate that they had an infusion of European blood during a "mixing event" at roughly the time of Alexander's conquests in 4th century B.C. This isolated people are thus most likely the direct descendants of the ancient Greek-Macedonian armies who came to this region 2,300 years ago.

The study was published in February 2014 in the journal Science by a team led by Simon Myers of Oxford University, Garrett Hellenthal of University College London and Daniel Falush of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany.

A 2013 Harvard study published in the American Journal of Human Genetics has found that vast majority of Indians today have descended from a mixture of two genetically divergent populations--Ancestral North Indians (ANIs) who migrated from Central Asia, the Middle East, the Caucasus, and Europe, and Ancestral South Indians (ASI), who are not closely related to groups outside the subcontinent.

Pakistan is a racially diverse country with a range of of skin colors and facial features. There are people of European descent in its northern areas like the Kalash along with the Sheedi or Makrani people of African descent in parts of the south along the Arabian Sea coastal line.

Sheedis of Sindh and Balochistan:

Sheedis are thought to be the descendants of African slaves brought to the shores of Pakistan at the height of the international slave trade that started in the 7th century and continued into the 18th century.

Also known as Siddis in other parts of South Asia, they are believed to have arrived in India in 628 AD at the Bharuch port. Several others followed with the first Arab invasions of Sindh in 712 AD. The latter group are believed to have been soldiers with Muhammad bin Qasim's Arab army, and were called Zanjis. Siddis are related to the Bantu peoples of Southeast Africa. They were brought to the Indian subcontinent as slaves by the Portuguese.

The Sheedis of Pakistan, also known as Makranis, live primarily along the Makran Coast in Balochistan, and southern part of Sindh. In Karachi, they are mainly concentrated in Lyari. Pir Mangho is revered by Sheedis as their patron saint. Sheedis have an annual celebration in Manghopir area around the shrine of their patron saint.

Chitral Valley:

A 10,000 ft high mountain pass and big glaciers separate the scenic Chitral valley, the home of the Kalash, from the Swat Valley that was hit by the Taliban insurgency in 2009. It has so far served to insulate these pagan people from the rising tide of intolerance and religious militancy in the Islamic Republic.



A CNN story calling the Kalsh "the happiest people in Pakistan" succinctly captured their lives in the following sentence: "Year round, the Kalasha dance their way through a stream of festivals and rituals, and socially and culturally, theirs appears to be a joyful existence".

Hunza's Greek and Macedonian Connections:

A few years ago, the neighboring Hunza people,who also claim descent from Alexander's men, found themselves in the middle of a tussle between the governments of Greece and Macedonia. Below is a post I wrote back in 2008 on this subject:

"I am honored to be in my country Macedonia", said Prince Ghazanfar Ali Khan of Hunza, as he arrived in Skopje, the capital of the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia in July this year, according to Financial Times.

So what is the Wali of Hunza doing in Macedonia? It is hard to believe but true that Pakistan and Pakistanis figure prominently in the ongoing struggle for the inheritance of the legacy of Alexander, the Great, and with it, Macedonia as a moniker. Both Greece and the country of Macedonia, officially called the "Former Yugoslav Republic (FYR) of Macedonia" by UN and other international bodies, claim Alexander's legacy.

The prince, his wife Princess Rani Atiqa and their entourage claim descent from Alexander the Great’s conquering army, which reached their Hunza tribal homeland in northern Pakistan 23 centuries ago.

The princely state of the Hunza is currently in northern Pakistan, former part of Persia, and the place of their residence is, according to historic data, the most eastern point of the kingdom of Alexander of Macedonia.

Hunza folklore gave a shot in the arm to the ex-Yugoslav country of 2m – still embroiled, 18 years after independence, in a frustrating “name dispute” with Greece, whose northern province is also called Macedonia. Greece has opposed the country of Macedonia calling itself Macedonia. To pacify Greeks, the world calls the nation of Macedonia F.Y.R. Macedonia, where F.Y.R. stands for the former Yugoslav republic.

As Greece and F.Y.R. Macedonia fight over their claim to the name of Macedonia and Alexander's heritage, they have both been courting the Kalash and Hunza people of Pakistan. While the FYR of Macedonia rolled out the red carpet for the prince of Hunza, the Greek government is funding the cultural activities of the Kalash people of northern Pakistan.



Aleksandar Dimiskovski, a business consultant in Skopje, told Financial Times: “The [Hunza] visit provides affirmation of our ties to the former Macedonia of Alexander the Great. Approval from these people confirms that the legacy of ancient Macedonia belongs to the Republic of Macedonia, not just to Greece.”


The fair-skinned, blue-eyed Hunza people, whose own accounts trace their descent to Alexander’s march-weary troops, are renowned for their longevity and their high literacy rate, says the Financial Times story on Hunza. In the 1930s, scientists in Nazi Germany also combed the Himalayas in search of lost Aryan cousins.

In addition to the Macedonian prime minister and his cabinet, the Hunza delegation also met Archbishop of Ohrid and Macedonia, HH Stefan, and Skopje Mayor Trifun Kostovski, according to Turkish Weekly Journal.

The delegation visited sites and towns throughout Macedonia, and attended the renowned Galichnik Wedding. The Hunza visit was organized by Macedonian Institute for Strategic Research.

FYR Macedonia has been making efforts to seek the attention and support of the United States in its fight with Greece. As a part of this campaign, Macedonian officials attempted to ingratiate the US by trying to become an ally in the war on terror. Macedonian security officials planned and staged fake anti-terrorist raids in which six innocent Pakistanis and an Indian migrant were killed in cold blood in late 2001, two months after 911 attacks. The New York Times covered the details of this fake tale of terror in Macedonia in a May 2004 story. The Hunza prince's sponsored visit, and the warm welcome he received in Macedonia, seem to be a continuation of the same cynical campaign that started with the massacre of innocent Pakistanis in Macedonia.

Here's a video clip of Wali of Hunza's visit to Macedonia:

Related Links:

Haq's Musings

Pakistan's Greek and Macedonian Connection

Soccer Loving Sheedis of Lyari

Taliban Insurgency in Swat

Harvard Genetics Study Finds Most Indians Not Indigenous

Rising Tide of Intolerance in Pakistan

Pakistani Cover Girls

Pakistan's Top Fashion Models

Upwardly Mobile Pakistan


Haq's Musings: Kalash Girls of Pakistan

this is very sad how pakistanis are show casing these people simply becuase they have white skin,blue eyes, and blonde hair. its shame. these europeans looking people are not even .01 percent of our population. ....

 

[Shan-e-ibrahim]

multan? or kharian/jehlum region?? dont lie now

this is not an argument whether it was multan, pathan, tarn taran or etc. the argument is, whether he won on lost.

 

[django]

They are not Greeks and it has been proved scientifically by DNA testing. The British created this myth to prove European superiority. White people are gone but left some Brown idiots that repeat lies like parrots.

I agree, that red hair and blond hair probably comes from earlier migrations to these parts by settlers from southern Russia, Ossetian for instance has similarities with Pashto, anyway Greeks hardly have blond hair and blue eyes.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

Ossetian for instance has similarities with Pashto, anyway Greeks hardly have blond hair and blue eyes.

Ossetians are Iranic people like Pashtuns. Greeks are short, round and dark hairs. Lord Byron in 1824 who read classics and thought Greeks were blond and white was shocked to see Middle Eastern looking Greeks.

 

[django]

Greeks are not short by any means, however they are olive skinned and dark haired and the Ossetians are indeed an Iranic people.

 

[Kabira]

Ossetians are Iranic people like Pashtuns. Greeks are short, round and dark hairs. Lord Byron in 1824 who read classics and thought Greeks were blond and white was shocked to see Middle Eastern looking Greeks.

Obviously Greeks don't look like north euros. What do you mean by round? Greeks don't look like middle easterns at all on average.

Greek army

If one notices light Kalash don't look like Greeks either.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

Probably you have not see Greeks. many of them are short (5'5feet to 5'8) and fat. They look ike Banya in India minus the hat and Lungi.

 

[RiazHaq]

Modernity and Muslims encroach on Kalash, a unique ancient tribe in #Pakistan's [HASHTAG]#Chitral[/HASHTAG] region Modernity and Muslims Encroach on Unique Tribe in Pakistan - WSJ via @WSJ

Members of this community (Kalash) say they are battling to preserve their traditions against two powerful forces: the encroachment of modernity and pressure to conform with the surrounding Muslim population.

At this year’s festival, the women wore their traditional long black dresses embellished with bright patterns, heaps of colorful necklaces and headdresses adorned with beads and seashells. But some of the younger women covered their faces for the dance with scarves, in a recent adoption of conservative Muslim norms.
---------

The tribespeople now inhabit three narrow valleys in Chitral, where they grow crops and raise long-haired goats. Their valleys are accessible only by a narrow track carved into the mountainside. The Kalash language and religion are distinct, as are their pacifistic ways in a region known for violence and internecine feuding.

“We’re a peaceful people,” said Muhammad Iqbal Kalash, sitting outside his traditional stone-and-wood house on the banks of a mountain river in the Rumbur valley. “Without the security now provided, we would no longer go to our dancing places.”

Even in their remaining three valleys, the Kalash are now outnumbered by Muslims. While the native Chitralis are known for their tolerance, many Muslim settlers from outside the region have brought a harsh brand of Islam with them.

Women are in many ways the anchor of Kalash culture. Confidently mixing with men and enjoying home-made wine and liquor fermented from mulberries or apricots at festivals, women usually choose their husbands—unlike most of Pakistan, where marriages are arranged by family elders. A Kalash wife can leave her husband for another man as long as the first one is financially compensated.

“Kalash religion and culture has survived because of the women,” said Sayed Gul Kalash, a woman taking a break from dancing at the festival. “Conversion is a silent killer. When someone leaves their religion, they leave their language and culture too.”

Kalash men have adopted the shalwar kameez, the baggy shirt-and-trousers combination worn by men throughout the rest of Pakistan. The men say they are encouraged by Muslims neighbors to shave, so they are not mistaken for Muslims.

The Kalash have adopted Muslim names, while the now-educated young men are reluctant to tend goats, an animal considered pure by the Kalash and an important part of their religion.

With no written tradition and no sacred book, many Kalash find their religion, a faith of shamans and animal sacrifice, hard to explain. They believe in one supreme God, but other deities function as intermediaries.

Cellphone service, another intrusion of the modern world, arrived in some Kalash areas only this year. But while modernization has taken some Kalash away from their home valleys and beliefs, it has also made many of them prouder of their unique heritage.

“There is now awareness of our culture,” said Meeta Gul, a mother of two in Rumbur. “Educated Kalash don’t convert.”

Modernity and Muslims Encroach on Unique Tribe in Pakistan - WSJ

 

[faisal6309]

Modernity and Muslims encroach on Kalash, a unique ancient tribe in #Pakistan's [HASHTAG]#Chitral[/HASHTAG] region Modernity and Muslims Encroach on Unique Tribe in Pakistan - WSJ via @WSJ

Members of this community (Kalash) say they are battling to preserve their traditions against two powerful forces: the encroachment of modernity and pressure to conform with the surrounding Muslim population.

At this year’s festival, the women wore their traditional long black dresses embellished with bright patterns, heaps of colorful necklaces and headdresses adorned with beads and seashells. But some of the younger women covered their faces for the dance with scarves, in a recent adoption of conservative Muslim norms.
---------

The tribespeople now inhabit three narrow valleys in Chitral, where they grow crops and raise long-haired goats. Their valleys are accessible only by a narrow track carved into the mountainside. The Kalash language and religion are distinct, as are their pacifistic ways in a region known for violence and internecine feuding.

“We’re a peaceful people,” said Muhammad Iqbal Kalash, sitting outside his traditional stone-and-wood house on the banks of a mountain river in the Rumbur valley. “Without the security now provided, we would no longer go to our dancing places.”

Even in their remaining three valleys, the Kalash are now outnumbered by Muslims. While the native Chitralis are known for their tolerance, many Muslim settlers from outside the region have brought a harsh brand of Islam with them.

Women are in many ways the anchor of Kalash culture. Confidently mixing with men and enjoying home-made wine and liquor fermented from mulberries or apricots at festivals, women usually choose their husbands—unlike most of Pakistan, where marriages are arranged by family elders. A Kalash wife can leave her husband for another man as long as the first one is financially compensated.

“Kalash religion and culture has survived because of the women,” said Sayed Gul Kalash, a woman taking a break from dancing at the festival. “Conversion is a silent killer. When someone leaves their religion, they leave their language and culture too.”

Kalash men have adopted the shalwar kameez, the baggy shirt-and-trousers combination worn by men throughout the rest of Pakistan. The men say they are encouraged by Muslims neighbors to shave, so they are not mistaken for Muslims.

The Kalash have adopted Muslim names, while the now-educated young men are reluctant to tend goats, an animal considered pure by the Kalash and an important part of their religion.

With no written tradition and no sacred book, many Kalash find their religion, a faith of shamans and animal sacrifice, hard to explain. They believe in one supreme God, but other deities function as intermediaries.

Cellphone service, another intrusion of the modern world, arrived in some Kalash areas only this year. But while modernization has taken some Kalash away from their home valleys and beliefs, it has also made many of them prouder of their unique heritage.

“There is now awareness of our culture,” said Meeta Gul, a mother of two in Rumbur. “Educated Kalash don’t convert.”

Modernity and Muslims Encroach on Unique Tribe in Pakistan - WSJ

Sometimes, you need to mix both things for sake of modernization. You cannot live in such places all the time when men is discovering more and more planets. Jews follow very old religion. Islam is 1400 years old. Christianity is older than that. They all follow technology but keep their culture and religion. Religion and culture both are two different things.
Arabs wore different stuff than Pakistanis and Egyptians. All three countries are Muslim majority countries. One can keep their culture after converting to other religion but its upto him/her if they want to keep their culture.

 

[salam.pakistan]

All the threads I have seen on Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Iran, Middle East, Central Asia all the ethnicities whether it's a Persian, Pushtoon, Tajik, Punjabi, Baluch, Kashmiri in short everyone try to make themselves as much distant from South Indians as much as possible. What is wrong with south Indians. Why you hate them so much. I understand People trying to preserve their identities their uniqueness but hating their own genetics so much is beyond my understanding. Why you people can't be proud of what you are???

 

[Trango Towers]

It is interesting people looking at Pakistanis for approval...Just get a genetic test to identify who more closely resembles the dead man called Alexander the great

Rather disgusting to stoop this low:

But all of us in pakistan are saluting you for looking like a baboons ass5.

 

[Hephaestus]

After Aornos, Alexander crossed the Indus and fought and won an epic battle against King Porus, who ruled a region in the Punjab, in the Battle of the Hydaspes in 326 BC. Alexander was impressed by Porus's bravery, and made him an ally. He appointed Porus as satrap, and added to Porus' territory land that he did not previously own. Choosing a local helped him control these lands so distant from Greece. Alexander founded two cities on opposite sides of the Hydaspes river, naming one Bucephala, in honor of his horse, who died around this time. The other was Nicaea (Victory), thought to be located at the site of modern day Mong, Punjab.

East of Porus' kingdom, near the Ganges River, were the Nanda Empire of Magadha and further east the Gangaridai Empire (of modern day Bangladesh). Fearing the prospect of facing other large armies and exhausted by years of campaigning, Alexander's army mutinied at the Hyphasis River (Beas), refusing to march farther east. This river thus marks the easternmost extent of Alexander's conquests.

Plutarch:

"As for the Macedonians, however, their struggle with Porus blunted their courage and stayed their further advance into India. For having had all they could do to repulse an enemy who mustered only twenty thousand infantry and two thousand horse, they violently opposed Alexander when he insisted on crossing the river Ganges also, the width of which, as they learned, was thirty-two furlongs, its depth a hundred fathoms, while its banks on the further side were covered with multitudes of men-at-arms and horsemen and elephants. For they were told that the kings of the Ganderites and Praesii were awaiting them with eighty thousand horsemen, two hundred thousand footmen, eight thousand chariots, and six thousand war elephants."


Alexander tried to persuade his soldiers to march farther, but his general Coenus pleaded with him to change his opinion and return; the men, he said, "longed to again see their parents, their wives and children, their homeland". Alexander eventually agreed and turned south, marching along the Indus. Along the way his army conquered the Malhi (in modern day Multan) and other Indian tribes and sustained an injury during the siege.

We should stop believing western versions of our history!

 

[Samlee]

People From Various Regions Have Invaded Migrated Settled In The Subcontinent And Especially Present Day Pakistan.Nobody Can Say They Are Directly Descended from Greeks Arabs or Persians.People Settled Intermarried
And The Rest Is History

 

[Kyoto]

All the threads I have seen on Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Iran, Middle East, Central Asia all the ethnicities whether it's a Persian, Pushtoon, Tajik, Punjabi, Baluch, Kashmiri in short everyone try to make themselves as much distant from South Indians as much as possible. What is wrong with south Indians. Why you hate them so much. I understand People trying to preserve their identities their uniqueness but hating their own genetics so much is beyond my understanding. Why you people can't be proud of what you are???

I dont think South Indians particularly but I think a lot of Pakistanis want to be seen not as 'Indian Asian' or 'basically Indians' as the stereotype goes. India has tried to delegitimise Pakistan's creation by saying they are just Indian Muslims who made their own country out of India whilst in reality the Indus Basin has a partly shared but different history and culture.

 

[PakForce]

Ossetian for instance has similarities with Pashto,

Sir, you have found great info for me. I didnt know this. Thanks.