Pakistanis have failed so see the latest Indians psychological gimmickry

[Silverfalcon]

Pakistanis have failed so see the latest Indians psychological gimmickry in the form of Jaswant Singh’s book praising Pakistan’s founding father Quaid Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Pakistanis are going ballistic that a hard core Indian from BJP has spoken good and high of the Pakistani leader but fail to see the underlying sinister move in the plan. There is hue and cry against the book in India by the hard core Hindus making the book more acceptable in Pakistan to the extent that its launching would be from Islamabad in days to come.

The reality is that Jaswant has played a very subtle and sinister trick on Pakistanis projecting and promoting the hardliner and extremist Hindu agenda of creating divisions within Pakistan’s ideological and political leadership. The biggest challenge for the Indian Brahman Hindus has been to create a division between Jinnah as political leader and Allama Iqbal as an ideologue and also to debunk the idea that Jinnah wanted a separate State for Muslims in India. If the Indians can achieve this, they have scored a major psychological victory. This is what this book aims to achieve.

The theme of this book revolves around following dangerous points which destroy Pakistan’s ideological and philosophical foundations.

-Jinnah was a secular man with no Islamic ideology.

-Jinnah never wanted partition and wanted to stay in united India. It was mistake of Hindu leaders that Pakistan was created while Muslims wanted to live in united India. (Basically creating the case for re-unification of two States)

- Iqbal was a mediocre non-entity and not an ideologue with no spiritual or ideological strength for Jinnah.

-Sir Syed Ahmad Khan was a British tout and had no ideological strength to give the concept of two nation theory – which makes Muslims as a separate political and social group from Hindus.

If this ideology of Jaswant is accepted in Pakistan, then basically India would achieve the greatest victory to weaken and destroy Pakistani ideology and the “two nation” theory which became the foundation to create Pakistan as a separate State from within the Indian sub-continent. Naïve as they are, Pakistani leadership and even intellectuals are falling for the Indian trap!

 

[Spring Onion]

I feel Jaswant's book has once again proved two nation theory.

Indeed Muslims wanted to live peacfuly but it was attitude of hardline Hindus like Swarkar which had paved way for two nation theory.


Whatever the motive of Jaswant lets not be pessimistic about everything viz viz Indians.

I dont want to think negatively about the entire stuff in this book. You may disagree with some point and agree with some in this book.

And for proving creation of Pakistan you never need any approval from Indians. Many incidents have already proved it.

 

[inferno]

Oh no! What an utter disgrace to even conspiracy theory.

 

[Comet]

It was mistake of Hindu leaders that Pakistan was created while Muslims wanted to live in united India.

This sort of thing was said in Maulana Abul Kalam Azad's Book 'India win Freedom'. He said that Congress was responsible for the divide of India

But, he also said that Jinnah single handedly led the Muslims of Subcontinent. ( He sort of accepted his defeat against Quaid)

 

[jarnee]

The author of this post thinks that all Indians from what ever party ..biggest agenda is Pakistan and harm Pakistan.. No dear.. everyone here is equally selfish and have their own agenda's like in your's..

Please do not watch too much of Conspiracy theories from Zaid Hamid..initially i also started believing him..but nothing is true till date.. he predicted that there will be war from 3 sides early in 2009 and America and India will attack etc.. he said the ones who attacked mumbai were Mossad people.. Ajmal Kasab is indian a Sikh called Amar singh.. all crap.. your govt acknowledges it now..just needs little more political will to punish the perpetrators and thats it..
India and Pakistan can resume dialog that got over when Mumbai happened.

 

[Silverfalcon]

Ajmal Kasab is indian a Sikh called Amar singh.. all crap.. your govt acknowledges it now.

Our government , Your government and the American government.

All three are against Pakistan , so no surprises there.

Our government acknowledges what the American government tells them to acknowledge.

MOVE ON

 

[EjazR]

The partition was done with full support of the British, as the book points, Muslim League and Jinnah was never popular among the muslim masses. IT was only the landlords and the civil services people i.e. the elitist and even then not all.

Its a fact of history that even in 1946 elections, when Jinnah used his rabid secretarian campaign, and the British tried their utmost to let the riots run and promote Hindu-Muslim conflict. No one even knew what the boundaries of future Pakistan would be.

STILL NWFP with 95% muslims was with Congress, Punjab the main province of present day Pakistan was with the Unionists. Both full opposed the two nation theory. In Kashmir Sheikh Abdulla was the most popular leader who again opposed the two nation theory.

Ironically it was only in the Bengal province that Muslim League was able to establish a majority comfortably. They later seceded from Pakistan. Don't forget that these elections had only 14% franchise so the masses were never asked to vote who were more pro-congress because of their land reforms policies. ML and Jinnah on the other hand opposed landreforms to draw the land lords in. One of the reasons why land reforms is still a distant reality in Pakistan.

But still the biggest reason for the partition was to maintain British strategic interests in South Asia, particularly against USSR. Jinnah assured the British that he would do their bidding in defence related matters and let them establish their bases and basically agreeing for their interference.
Probably one of the reason why the US (Britain's heir) interferes so much in Pakistan.

Until Pakistan realizes that the two nation theory was propounded by Savarkar and Hindu extremists and has no basis in Islam (and obviously not an ideology that a progressive nation int he 21st century can use) it will have problem to be at peace with itself.

Otherwise, even a book is enough to make people insecure, just like their counterparts in India the BJP/RSS are.

 

[EjazR]

The theme of this book revolves around following dangerous points which destroy Pakistan’s ideological and philosophical foundations.

-Jinnah was a secular man with no Islamic ideology.

That's a fact, he only used Islam to achieve political aims. He was never a practicing muslim. He changed his secular stance because he was power hungry like Nehru. If Nehru's dad and Gandhi had realised how important power was for the middle-aged Jinnah in the 1930s, he would never have turned communal to achieve politcal gains

-Jinnah never wanted partition and wanted to stay in united India. It was mistake of Hindu leaders that Pakistan was created while Muslims wanted to live in united India. (Basically creating the case for re-unification of two States)

He wanted a stronger position for only the Muslim League political party NOT the muslims of India as some people believe. He kept insisting that to keep India united, ML had to be the only party that could appoint muslims to the central cabinet. Even though there were many other parties including the Congress themselves that had significantly more muslim support in India.

And don't worry, any party in India that even hints at unification with Pakistan would be committing political suicide. Even if Pakistan and India become best friends, re-unification will not happen

- Iqbal was a mediocre non-entity and not an ideologue with no spiritual or ideological strength for Jinnah.

Iqbal never advocated for independent Muslim state. He only wanted a muslim majority province within India. Read his speeches in his entirety and his communication on the Pakistan scheme. He was even opposed to the word Pakistan even to the late 1930s. Had he been alive, maybe partition would not have happened.

-Sir Syed Ahmad Khan was a British tout and had no ideological strength to give the concept of two nation theory – which makes Muslims as a separate political and social group from Hindus.

Sir Syed wanted to make muslims educated and promote loyalty to the British seeing how some Hindus had started taking advantage of being loyal to the British during the 1857 revolt. HE never came up with the two nation theory. That was Sarvarkar - a Hindu

If this ideology of Jaswant is accepted in Pakistan, then basically India would achieve the greatest victory to weaken and destroy Pakistani ideology and the “two nation” theory which became the foundation to create Pakistan as a separate State from within the Indian sub-continent. Naïve as they are, Pakistani leadership and even intellectuals are falling for the Indian trap!

Maybe in light of the above info, it time to reevaluate the "ideology". Especially since it has nothing to do with Islam and has everything to do with an RSS ideologue.

Pakistan can emerge with a new identity, more inclusive, at peace with itself and its neighbors.

 

[praveen]

The partition was done with full support of the British, as the book points, Muslim League and Jinnah was never popular among the muslim masses. IT was only the landlords and the civil services people i.e. the elitist and even then not all.

They never wanted partition Ejaz.The ML was initially started to fight against the british.Which later used by the british for stifling the Congress.When they wanted to leave India they never intended to give Pakistan.Jinnah wanted an autonomous Provinces with separate laws and set-up Pakistan was not his initial aim .He wanted to be the
PM of united India.With the arrival of Nehru and Patel into the picture
then he thought of Pakistan

Its a fact of history that even in 1946 elections, when Jinnah used his rabid secretarian campaign, and the British tried their utmost to let the riots run and promote Hindu-Muslim conflict. No one even knew what the boundaries of future Pakistan would be.

Very true

STILL NWFP with 95% muslims was with Congress, Punjab the main province of present day Pakistan was with the Unionists. Both full opposed the two nation theory. In Kashmir Sheikh Abdulla was the most popular leader who again opposed the two nation theory.

True regarding NFWP,can't say about Punjab.Sheikh Abdullah came into the only picture after independence and Kashmir conflict

Ironically it was only in the Bengal province that Muslim League was able to establish a majority comfortably. They later seceded from Pakistan. Don't forget that these elections had only 14% franchise so the masses were never asked to vote who were more pro-congress because of their land reforms policies. ML and Jinnah on the other hand opposed landreforms to draw the land lords in. One of the reasons why land reforms is still a distant reality in Pakistan.

This is what confuses me the most Ejaz.The power structure in Bengal is a bit different.The Zamindars were mostly Hindus where as the peasants are muslims.The worst riots happened because of thesocial stratification,in short a class struggle became a communal
struggle.The same problem Pakistan faces even today

But still the biggest reason for the partition was to maintain British strategic interests in South Asia, particularly against USSR. Jinnah assured the British that he would do their bidding in defence related matters and let them establish their bases and basically agreeing for their interference.

Don't think so Ejaz

Probably one of the reason why the US (Britain's heir) interferes so much in Pakistan.

More of Pakistan's own choices Ejaz.More of its own choices
long term benefits were sacrificed for Short term and middle term gains

Until Pakistan realizes that the two nation theory was propounded by Savarkar and Hindu extremists and has no basis in Islam (and obviously not an ideology that a progressive nation int he 21st century can use) it will have problem to be at peace with itself.

True RSS and VHP always supported formation of pakistan

I thnk you should read Bipin Chandra's struggle for independence.Good one.

The partition was bound to happen sooner or later good it happened early,otherwise it would have hogged a lot of our resources

 

[EjazR]

@ praveen

What I said I wasn't just making up. All these you will find in probably two most crucial books about the British policy on the partition. These draw on PRIMARY sources, not on someones feelings and interviews with participants as most of the other books do.

"The transfer of Power: 1942-47" Documents from the British governments in the Indian affairs cabinet.

"The shadow of the Great Game" Book based on declassified documents of the British and American govt. during the same period.

Its a myth that the British never wanted partition, and the declassified documents proove it. They left no stone unturned, you have to read their policy papers, Churchill's staments and Wavell's partition plan that was privately discussed in 1944 itself right down to district level that was implemented to the letter. The cabinet mission plan was bound to fail

Once you read these books, then you can comment on my statements.

IMHO if I could attach weightage to the policies by various participants that led to partition I would say the British conservatives and their civil servants in India 60%, Jinnah and ML 15%, RSS Hindu Mahasabha and some of their compatriots in Congress 15% and naive and indifferent attitude of Nehru and Gandhi 10%

 

[praveen]

@ praveen

What I said I wasn't just making up. All these you will find in probably two most crucial books about the British policy on the partition

"The transfer of Power: 1942-47" Documents from the British governments in the Indian affairs cabinet.

"The shadow of the Great Game" Book based on declassified documents of the British and American govt. during the same period.

Its a myth that the British never wanted partition, and the declassified documents proove it. They left no stone unturned, you have to read their policy papers, Churchill's staments and Wavell's partition plan that was privately discussed in 1944 itself right down to district level that was implemented to the letter. The cabinet mission plan was bound to fail

Once you read these books, then you can comment on my statements

Can I get those links Ejaz if there are any online links.Pls provide them for me.
Might be true also Ejaz.Gandhiji did something where Hitler and mussolini failed,he destroyed the british empire without firing a single shot.Churchill also hated Gandhi a lot.He made britain lose its empire.

 

[Spring Onion]

The partition was done with full support of the British, as the book points, Muslim League and Jinnah was never popular among the muslim masses. IT was only the landlords and the civil services people i.e. the elitist and even then not all.

Oh thats why millions of poor Muslims moved to Pakistan.

Its a fact of history that even in 1946 elections, when Jinnah used his rabid secretarian campaign, and the British tried their utmost to let the riots run and promote Hindu-Muslim conflict. No one even knew what the boundaries of future Pakistan would be.

Sorry to burst your bubble dear. The rabid secterian compaign was started by Hardline Hindus like Swarkar and other Hindutva elements who wanted India only for Hindus and who were threatening Non-Hindus.

Jinnah was with congress but when your Hindutva trolls started threatening Muslims he joined Muslim League.

STILL NWFP with 95% muslims was with Congress, Punjab the main province of present day Pakistan was with the Unionists. Both full opposed the two nation theory. In Kashmir Sheikh Abdulla was the most popular leader who again opposed the two nation theory.

Oh please spare of this shi.t you wrote above about we people of NWFP.

For your information mr Ghafar Khan was not nor he will ever be counted as 95% Muslims of NWFP. It was only him who was with India and Congress and he also assured you and your British masters that conduct a referendum because Pathans of NWFP will vote for joining India But alas alas we the people of NWFP had voted in favour of Pakistan and thus we had slapped all those having a flawed conspiracy theory in their mind that 95% people of NWFP are with congress.

Until Pakistan realizes that the two nation theory was propounded by Savarkar and Hindu extremists and has no basis in Islam (and obviously not an ideology that a progressive nation int he 21st century can use) it will have problem to be at peace with itself.

Otherwise, even a book is enough to make people insecure, just like their counterparts in India the BJP/RSS are.

I dont know what is your defination of a two nation theory. There is no doubt that we are different than Hindus. our rituals, prayers, social norms everything is different than Hindus. Thats two-nation theory.

The need for partion was felt to save the Muslims from injustices at the hands of majority Hindus simple as that. The theory was merely used to get some share for Muslims of India at that time and it succeeded. and the reason for using this theory was non-other than rabid sectarianism by Hindutva leaders.

Today looking at the plight of Muslims in India we are convinced out elders for whatever reason had created Pakistan, had done a good thing for us and we are gratful to them.

 

[EjazR]

Can I get those links Ejaz if there are any online links.Pls provide them for me.

PRaveen, if you are interested int he subject I suggest you buy the books, atleast the second one.

Here is a site that has extensive extracts from the cabinet mission plan documents but not everything.

India's Constitutional Question - The Cabinet Mission Plan 1946 (CabinetMissionPlan)

 

[EjazR]

Oh thats why millions of poor Muslims moved to Pakistan.

If you are talking about the Punjab, they were forced to move after the partition, they had no choice, it was because of the partition that there was violent and swift exchange of populations. Muslims suffered more deaths as a community but less than Hindus and Sikhs combined. This happened BECAUSE of the partition, not FOR it

Sorry to burst your bubble dear. The rabid secterian compaign was started by Hardline Hindus like Swarkar and other Hindutva elements who wanted India only for Hindus and who were threatening Non-Hindus.

Agreed, but I was only referring to the election campaigning int he Muslim majority provinces

Jinnah was with congress but when your Hindutva trolls started threatening Muslims he joined Muslim League.

Hindu Mahasabha and RSS members were banned to join Congress one year after the ban on Muslim league in 1937. Jinnah was already distant from Congress in the 1930s because he was not offered the presidency (which IMO he rightly deserved being a senior in the Congress party and having worked so hard for it for the past 20 odd years) but instead was given to Nehru on Gandhi's insistence.

It was Hindu Mahasabha and RSS that were communal not Congress. Congress leaders were naive, overly idealistic at times and arrogant. While some of them were too much of a gentle men.

Oh please spare of this shi.t you wrote above about we people of NWFP.

For your information mr Ghafar Khan was not nor he will ever be counted as 95% Muslims of NWFP. It was only him who was with India and Congress and he also assured you and your British masters that conduct a referendum because Pathans of NWFP will vote for joining India But alas alas we the people of NWFP had voted in favour of Pakistan and thus we had slapped all those having a flawed conspiracy theory in their mind that 95% people of NWFP are with congress.

Jana, rofls or calling it shi.t wont change the historical facts. Gaffar Khan was demoralised because Congress leaders (again!) were naive and agreed to make NWFP part of Pakistan on British insistence as long as they guaranteed all princely states in India to join Indian union during the 1946-47 negotiations.

The referendum was not held in any other province. The elected government was supose to decide wether it wanted to join India or Pakistan and Dr. Khan Saheb's govt. and Gaffar Kahn, who were the most popular, should have done that. Gaffar Khan wanting to avoid further bloodshed among his pathans and the ML pathans decided to boycott the referendum because Independence option was not given. Still only 50.1% voted for Pakistan, franchise was limited to only 400, 000 people of who about less than half voted. This is after Gaffar Khans' boycott!

The fact remains that NWFP a stauchly religious and Muslim majority province did NOT vote for Jinnah. Neither for that matter did Punjab.

Ofcourse the situation now is completely different and the current generation are ofcourse staunch pakistanis. I wont deny that.

I dont know what is your defination of a two nation theory. There is no doubt that we are different than Hindus. our rituals, prayers, social norms everything is different than Hindus. Thats two-nation theory.

The need for partion was felt to save the Muslims from injustices at the hands of majority Hindus simple as that. The theory was merely used to get some share for Muslims of India at that time and it succeeded. and the reason for using this theory was non-other than rabid sectarianism by Hindutva leaders.

Today looking at the plight of Muslims in India we are convinced out elders for whatever reason had created Pakistan, had done a good thing for us and we are gratful to them.

What it implies is you can never live with non-muslims only because they are "different". That is patently unislamic, The prophet (SAW) and the quran never taught us anything like that.

It also doesn't change the fact that Two nation theory was propounded by an RSS ideolouge. Its no surprise that Two nation theory is high esteem and taught by VHP/RSS/Bajrang Dal to their students!

 

[arihant]

Our government acknowledges what the American government tells them to acknowledge.

Ok. Pakistan has no control over its external matter. So, you mean US has asked Pakistan not to file trial against LeT Chief. Brother, your deny doesn't makes sense.