Pakistani reactions to Chinese vs American Islamophobia

[JayAtl]

This is just a troll post to incite tensions among China-Pakistan. Obviously Al-Qaeda and its minions are busy around the world planning bomb blasts for some reason that only they understand, however, if a government starts discriminating against its own people based on religious or ethnic lines, then the country is very quickly destabilized. BD also had a insurgency in the CHT, where terrorists (this time they claimed to be Buddhists), killed thousands of Bengalis. BD solved it the same way as China, with scholarships, some degree of autonomy, etc. Now the remnants are busy fighting themselves. More BD soldiers have died from malaria than from the insurgent's bullets.

I just wanted to comment about the various shifts in our argument. First you call it a troll post, but then go on to agree with my premise only to then again shift and say you did it the Chinese way. The Chinese banned its citizens of 18 or under from accessing their mosque. Did BD ban all Buddhist from practicing their religion till they reached 18? The Chinese banned all muslims regardless of age from attending Prayers period for a while back then- did BD freeze all Buddhist from going to their place of worship for even one day?

 

[harpoon]

200 Han Chinese were killed by Uighur terrorists, who claim to be Muslim.

In return, 14 of them were sentenced to death, despite the number of terrorist thugs to be in the thousands.

If we adopted an Israel like policy, we would have simply bulldozed the houses of anyone without a Chinese name. Instead, we give them aid such that they can go to college with lower test scores than Han, have more subsidies, have halal cafeterias, write in their own Arabic script and are specifically exempt from family planning.

Does the US give subsidies to Muslims, or give them halal cafeterias?

You are doing nothing more than what is expected out of Govt who is concerned about their minority population.

 

[Bombay Dude]

200 Han Chinese were killed by Uighur terrorists, who claim to be Muslim.

In return, 14 of them were sentenced to death, despite the number of terrorist thugs to be in the thousands.

If we adopted an Israel like policy, we would have simply bulldozed the houses of anyone without a Chinese name. Instead, we give them aid such that they can go to college with lower test scores than Han, have more subsidies, have halal cafeterias, write in their own Arabic script and are specifically exempt from family planning.

Does the US give subsidies to Muslims, or give them halal cafeterias?

They are Sunni Muslims like Pakistanis.

The war on terrorism began for China after the collapse of the Soviet Union, which opened up the Central Asian region for proselytizing. The Taliban saw an opportunity to build a Pan-Islamic region. Pakistan saw an opportunity to encircle India with this Pan-Islamic arc. Turkey also revived its dream of a Pan-Turkic region, which would give it a seat on the U.N. Security Council. Each of these visions found Uyghur recruits.

http://www.nps.edu/Academics/centers/ccc/publications/OnlineJournal/2002/sept02/eastAsia.pdf

 

[DarK-LorD]

When India asks Pakistan to take action against Terrorists who have killed dozens of innocent people in Bomb blast.Pakistan either denies it or dilly-dallies with it.For eg-Last week the judge who as presiding over 26/11 case in Pakistan was transferred.

But When it comes the case of China,almost the entire GoP cabinet incl. Prez travels to Xianjiang to address the Chinese concern.

If this is not hypocrisy,What is?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts out. Few comments about the why I think I could have got banned . Let me give you an example of my last ban (feel free to check).

Person A ( Pakistani) says ' NATO bombed mosques in Iraq'

( note:not true but yes they did fire( small arms) on some that had the terrorist shooting from within itself at the troops first.

I SAID: well because they were shooting at the troops from within, you guys did the same with red mosque situation where your troops were shot at from within the red mosque, certainly don't expect to lie down take fire and pray they don’t die.

Result= I get 14 days ban and that comment was cited as the reason.

As you can see a pretty honest conversation got me banned- hence my subject header here.

Now on the rest ---I don’t strongly disagree with most of what you have posted other than this media in the countries push the anti-Muslim meme- well that’s the media- yours does the same about Hindus and Indians. I was talking about govt actions.

Secondly, you said you condemn the Chinese but then quickly say they had to do it for their security reasons. My contention is, since when is banning religious freedom a security issue? What secruity issue does an 8yr old boy or girl pose? And if it is- imagine if India or US did so-- Most all Pakistanis would be up in arms about it -if we are discussing this honestly.

Well bans/suspensions are not given on just one post. You get infractions and when you get 3-4 infractions, then you get suspended based on the infractions you got. But again, had it been me, and had it been what you had written and had it not been off-topic/derailing of topic at hand, i would not have given the infraction or suspension as the conversation by you seems fine. But may be other factors joined in, which you may not be knowing. Anyway, it was past, hope you don't face such a situation in future.

Well as for Pakistani media, i can assure you, we are not fed the kind of propaganda as you are thinking. May be in the times of having just national TV, that may have been the case, but since private TV channels have been allowed, things are different, they don't feed any propaganda against Hindus or India, rather the Aman ki Asha thingy was launched by one of the media groups from the Pakistani side and the Indian side, may be it gives you an idea. So, don't worry, things have changed, as i said, we watch whatever we like, be it CNN, BBC, Fox News, Sky News, you just name it. If you get to watch the pakistani news channels sometime, you will see Indian or Hindus hardly get mentioned or the propaganda you are thinking. If you get time and opportunity, do watch the pakistani news channels, you will be amazed and they are pretty good too. Even during the height of tension between Indian & Pakistan, ours never showed any war mongering reports as shown on the Indian news media, which we saw.

And i condemned the Chinese action but then i defended not only Chinese, but everyone else, India, US, Iran, Turkey and everyone else, that all these countries do actions which may kill their own countrymen, but they seem it a right action to satisfy their security concerns and integrity.

Radicals & extremists mostly uses religious places to preach their ideology, that is why they get banned and young people get radicalized more easily.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

When India asks Pakistan to take action against Terrorists who have killed dozens of innocent people in Bomb blast.Pakistan either denies it or dilly-dallies with it.For eg-Last week the judge who as presiding over 26/11 case in Pakistan was transferred.

But When it comes the case of China,almost the entire GoP cabinet incl. Prez travels to Xianjiang to address the Chinese concern.

If this is not hypocrisy,What is?

It's obviously not hyprocrisy, because China and Pakistan are friends. Whereas India can better be described as an enemy.

So of course people would be willing to give leeway to their friends... while disliking their enemies for any reason they can find. That's how the world works.

 

[karan.1970]

It's obviously not hyprocrisy, because China and Pakistan are friends. Whereas India can better be described as an enemy.

So of course people would be willing to give leeway to their friends... while disliking their enemies for any reason they can find. That's how the world works.

The bold part is a pretty decent definition of Hypocrisy or double standards..

But you are right, thats how the world works

 

[JayAtl]

Well, my friend, you gave the example of China banning under 18's from going to mosques. But, then you say that the US does this and gets lambasted. Two things i would like to say:

1- China is doing it to protect it's internal security, the US is doing it to protect it's internal security as well. But the difference is that China is doing it within it's own borders, and when it is inside it's own border, it may do whatever it wants to. But the US, is going beyond borders and ruining other countries and troubling other people for it's problems. Had the US restrained and restricted it self to the US mainland, nobody would have had a problem.

2- And you dont really think we are promoting this Islamophobia now do you? It was solely created by US in order to gain it's objectives, and to garner international support. If India and US have suffered 10 fold and they are in this situation, then Pakistan has suffered 100 times that!

Huh where did I say US does it . I said if[/] the US did it...

secondly what security issue is for an 8yr old to go to a mosque? please explain..or dont. But please dont misquote me .

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

But you are right, thats how the world works

Which is why I find it hilarious when Indians are constantly whining about this.

"China did it too, so why are you angry at India but not at them??" - Typical rant

I mean come on... anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge about being a human being would know that people will always think more highly of their friends than they do of their enemies.

No one claimed to be objective in the China-Pakistan-India situation here. This is not an academic publication where we are obliged to be objective for any reason, this is just people talking to other people.

 

[DarK-LorD]

This is a fight against terrorists which is global in nature,all countries must address the concern of terrorists activities against other countries in it's soil.
If this was some trade or strategic argument then your argument holds.
But it doesn't apply to cross-border terrorism.

 

[King123]

Which is why I find it hilarious when Indians are constantly whining about this.

"China did it too, so why are you angry at India but not at them??"

I mean come on, what do you think.

We think rule should be same for same kind of issue.

But I agree, It depends on country to country relation. We can't expect the same.

 

[Developereo]

I think TaimiKhan answered the question pretty well so let me just add one point: the main issue is the selective targetting of Muslims in the West.

The situation in Western China is as much about ethnicity and culture as it is about religion. And the Chinese government is very clear on its stance towards religion -- any religion -- be it Islam, Christianity, Falun Gong or anything else. You can have opinions about their policies, and how much of it is propaganda v/s truth, but that debate would not be Islam-specific.

The situation in the West is entirely different. There, Islam is specifically targetted and demonized. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I would have no problem with the French laws on headscarfs if they disallowed all religious symbols, not just conspicuous symbols (wink, wink), or if Switzerland outlawed all tall religious structures, not just minarets. Similarly, if the media coverage of Muslims/Islam was similar to their coverage of other religions, then it would be different, but that's not the way things are. The Western media is engaged in systematic demonization and stigmatization of Muslims and Islam worldwide.

Finally, as for India, the reasons are historical. Our two countries separated due to religion, and Kashmir remains the unfinished business, so it's only natural that the matter should keep surfacing.

 

[JayAtl]

If France bans women from headscarf, then no problem to everyone. But if a Muslim country gets a women jailed or fined for wearing short skimpy shirts and shorts, then human rights are violated!

Once again my examples where about the US and India- take it up with europeans about their bans. Most headscarf bans where of covering the face for secruity issues . But regardless, take it up with europeans- my topic is about US and India never ever banning expression of religion inspite of having 10x folds of deaths by terrorists of the same religious following.

Pakistan is called the Islamic republic and is based atleast, thats what you guys say, on Islam--religion period. If so- how does this blind attitude towards your religion/ followers not allowed to pray in mosques for time to time when riots happen and not allowed to pray period if under 18 takes place in China and mum's the word from pakistanis as a majority here?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

They are Sunni Muslims like Pakistanis.



http://www.nps.edu/Academics/centers/ccc/publications/OnlineJournal/2002/sept02/eastAsia.pdf

you are aware that not all Pakistanis are Sunni Muslims, or even Muslims at all, right?

 

[Jango]

Huh where did I say US does it . I said if[/] the US did it...

secondly what security issue is for an 8yr old to go to a mosque? please explain..or dont. But please dont misquote me .

Well, the US tries to achieve it's interests by invading foreign land , while China does it within it''s own borders.

Now , I dont know Chinese law, and i dont want to be defending them here, nor criticizing them. What their laws are, they are for the people living there, and hence is their worry, not mine, or yours. We should be having no problem about it.

I agree that a 8 year old does not pose a security issue.

But hey, do you know what, children under 12 are banned from going into Faisal Mosque, they are banned from going into SUltan Qaboos mosque and other mosques as well. This is because the young children often dont know how to attend namaz , and instead just make a ruckus. I have witnessed it myself. So, is not that credible to be a issue for you as well?

Is not ban in China same as ban for Faisal mosque and SUltan Qaboos mosque?