Pakistani PM hails China as his country's 'best friend'

[ephone]

What can one say to that?! You are convinced, without any evidence. EVEN Robert Gates' statement means nothing to you.

Does Robert Gates know Pakistan better or your former president Musharraf know Pakistan better?

As far as for Gates, even something happens, to safeguard U.S. interest in Pakistan and keep Pakistan's cooperation, he will say nothing very likely.

BTW, does Musharraf words mean nothing to you???

 

[53fd]

Why don't you educate me how much information from below is wrong?

Zia-ul-Haq's Islamization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan follows the 1973 constitution of Pakistan today, there is no Nizam-e-Mustafa or Shariah Law in Pakistan for heaven's sake. There was one clause about Hadood ordinance that he brought in, which was overturned in the Musharraf era. There is one challenge left in the constitution, & that is dealing with the atrocious Blasphemy Law. And enough people are standing up to that everyday, & hopefully that atrocious law will be outlawed soon. But after that, the constitution of Pakistan is pretty along secular lines. I don't know what else to tell you. Ask a Pakistani member if Pakistan has "Nizam-e-Mustafa", they'll give you surprised looks. By the way, why are you so keen in looking at these internal issues of Pakistan that have nothing to do with China or its internal security, as I said, China faces a much more imminent threat from Al-Qaeda affiliate groups in Tajikistan (direct borders with China), Kyrgyzstan (direct borders with China), Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan than they do from Pakistan. Hell, do you know that yesterday, 5 Chechens almost conducted a huge suicide attack in Quetta, Pakistan; coming from Afghanistan? Was that Pakistan's fault too? Afghanistan's sanctuaries in Kunar, Nuristan have given Uzbek, Arab, Somalian, Sudanese terrorists refuge; & they use Afghanistan to attack Pakistan; as Afghanistan has an open border with Pakistan? Even the US cannot patrol its border with Mexico, & that is a piece of cake as compared to the Afghan-Pakistan border. Pakistan is fighting valiantly against this international group of terrorists affiliated with Al Qaeda from Afghanistan, & is winning against them. You sir (no offense) do not have an understanding of what is going in the region, & the threat of international terrorist groups affiliated with Al-Qaeda in countries like Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan; right next to the Chinese borders.

 

[roadrunner]

I bet you can provide a better source that that, right?

There should be some assessment report related to economics growth, literacy improvement, health improvement, infrastructure improvement and etc... basically an overall assessment for all related factors for a country's growth.

You can see it for yourself in this graph. The 1980s, the 1960s and the mid 2000s were all period of high (7 or 8%) growth periods.

 

[ephone]

About those chechen's attack on post, I do know. I think they were all killed.

As for as the linked information, why don't you make a correction so that I can get that straight. However, I have to say that I am very surprised since PBS's Bhutto's documentary conveyed the same information regarding the era Zia's coup and his following state's islamization.

Well, if Zia's policy is all over-turned, that would be fantastic for Pakistan. However, was't one of your governors got assassinated by his body guards simply because he voiced his opinion about that blasphemy law???

About those terrorists from central asia, China has a joint SCO to deal with that problems and there are already a few operations to get rid of them.

Pakistan follows the 1973 constitution of Pakistan today, there is no Nizam-e-Mustafa or Shariah Law in Pakistan for heaven's sake. There was one clause about Hadood ordinance that he brought in, which was overturned in the Musharraf era. There is one challenge left in the constitution, & that is dealing with the atrocious Blasphemy Law. And enough people are standing up to that everyday, & hopefully that atrocious law will be outlawed soon. But after that, the constitution of Pakistan is pretty along secular lines. I don't know what else to tell you. Ask a Pakistani member if Pakistan has "Nizam-e-Mustafa", they'll give you surprised looks. Btw, why are you so keen in looking at these internal issues of Pakistan that have nothing to do with China or its internal security, as I said, China faces a much more imminent threat from Al-Qaeda affiliate groups in Tajikistan (direct borders with China), Kyrgyzstan (direct borders with China), Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan than they do from Pakistan. Hell, do you know that yesterday, 5 Chechens almost conducted a huge suicide attack in Quetta, Pakistan; coming from Afghanistan? Was that Pakistan's fault too? Afghanistan's sanctuaries in Kunar, Nuristan have given Uzbek, Arab, Somalian, Sudanese terrorists refuge; & they use Afghanistan to attack Pakistan; as Afghanistan has an open border with Pakistan? Even the US cannot patrol its border with Mexico, & that is a piece of cake as compared to the Afghan-Pakistan border. Pakistan is fighting valiantly against this international group of terrorists affiliated with Al Qaeda from Afghanistan, & is winning against them. You sir (no offense) do not have an understanding of what is going in the region, & the threat of international terrorist groups affiliated with Al-Qaeda in countries like Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan; right next to the Chinese Western borders.

 

[huzihaidao12]

it seems like Pakistan average GDP growth rate in the 1960s was around 6 or 7%. So it wasn't much different from the 1980s or mid 2000s.

In fact, Pakistan has a good environment, Pakistan is a country of special interest for the United States, as to restrict India. so to get a lot of assistance, whether direct military aid or loans. other more developing countries are not so lucky. However, Pakistan faces an easy change and complex international situation because location. international situation easy to change means interest easy to change. Pakistan's success because of the geographical environment, the failure of Pakistan because of the same geographical environment. Pakistan is too easily influenced by international environment. But small countries do not have much choice, at least in the developing stage is the case.Dependent on others is always vulnerable, but if Pakistan does not rely on external assistance, Pakistan will become common in developing countries, that would mean more poverty and more difficult. This is complicated.

PS: I did some understanding of Pakistan, just some personal thoughts for a recent reading.

 

[ephone]

First, I cannot see the year indicators.

Second, it seems that Pakistan has better growth under Bhutto's era as well as Musharaf's era. Zia's era is just moderate and post-Zia era is even worse.

Third, considering Pakistan's major wars are all before 1976, I have to say Bhutto's era is better considering those war expense and distraction.

You can see it for yourself in this graph. The 1980s, the 1960s and the mid 2000s were all period of high (7 or 8%) growth periods.

 

[53fd]

In fact, Pakistan has a good environment, Pakistan is a country of special interest for the United States, as to restrict India. so to get a lot of assistance, whether direct military aid or loans. other more developing countries are not so lucky. However, Pakistan faces An easy change and complex international situation, because the geography. easy to change the situation in the interest of bringing easy to change. Pakistan's success because of the geographical environment, the failure of Pakistan because of the same geographical environment. dependent on others is always vulnerable, but if Pakistan does not rely on external assistance, Pakistan will become common in developing countries, that would mean more poverty and more difficult. This is complicated.

PS: I did some understanding of Pakistan, just some personal thoughts for a recent reading.

I hope you realize every country in this world right now is relying on some kind of external assistance, whether that is the US, India, China, Pakistan etc. And this WOT has brought Pakistan far greater economic losses than rewards. If you want, I can go into detail about that, but that does not pertain to the topic here. But I appreciate your thoughts on Pakistan here. Cheers.

 

[roadrunner]

In fact, Pakistan has a good environment, Pakistan is a country of special interest for the United States, as to restrict India.

No no no no

Pakistan is of special interest for the United States to restrict China and Russia. India is unimportant.

 

[Meengla]

Does Robert Gates know Pakistan better or your former president Musharraf know Pakistan better?

As far as for Gates, even something happens, to safeguard U.S. interest in Pakistan and keep Pakistan's cooperation, he will say nothing very likely.

BTW, does Musharraf words mean nothing to you???

OMG! You are losing it. Musharraf has never implicated senior Pak. officials in hiding OBL.
What is wrong with you?! I almost want to call you a liar! You have even Gates lying!

 

[53fd]

First, I cannot see the year indicators.

Second, it seems that Pakistan has better growth under Bhutto's era as well as Musharaf's era. Zia's era is just moderate and post-Zia era is even worse.

Third, considering Pakistan's major wars are all before 1976, I have to say Bhutto's era is better considering those war expense and distraction.

You are not familiar with Pakistani culture, 'democratic rule' & the workings inside the country. All I'll say is, if you think the rise in extremism is what caused the country's economy to go down, you could not be more wrong. If we followed that logic, the growth rate in Musharraf's era should have been far lesser than that of Benazir Bhutto & Nawaz Sharif's in the 90s. It wasn't. Unfortunately, you do not know how the political system inside Pakistan works, & you are making very very wrong assumptions that have nothing to do with reality.

 

[roadrunner]

First, I cannot see the year indicators.

Second, it seems that Pakistan has better growth under Bhutto's era as well as Musharaf's era. Zia's era is just moderate and post-Zia era is even worse.

Third, considering Pakistan's major wars are all before 1976, I have to say Bhutto's era is better considering those war expense and distraction.

If you count the years, Zia's era averaged 7-8%, Bhutto's era was one of the worst (Z Bhutto but this was because of the 1971 war perhaps). B Bhutto did alright, about the same as Zia, Nawaz Sharif did the worst, the mid 2000s (army rule) one of the best.

There is no amazing achievement in the 1960s that was not repeated after the 1980s. But the 1960s was a period of good growth also.

 

[ephone]

OMG! You are losing it. Musharraf has never implicated senior Pak. officials in hiding OBL.
What is wrong with you?! I almost want to call you a liar! You have even Gates lying!

AM I STILL LOSING IT???

Osama bin Laden dead: Gen Pervez Musharraf admits 'rogue elements' may have helped bin Laden - Telegraph

 

[huzihaidao12]

I hope you realize every country in this world right now is relying on some kind of external assistance, whether that is the US, India, China, Pakistan etc. And this WOT has brought far greater economic losses than rewards. If you want, I can go into detail about that, but that does not pertain to the topic here. But I appreciate your thoughts on Pakistan here. Cheers.

There is no intention to attack, just to explain some things. I agree with what you said, every country receiving foreign aid. But I also want you and others to focus on my later views. A Chinese saying "throwing a brick to attract jade", hoping to More useful discussion, because I was interested in it.

 

[ephone]

You have to understand that your education level was far lower then compared to the later period when all of that are increased. In addition, there are no major wars after 1976 and U.S. had given a great amount assistance throughout Zia's era while that was not the case before that.

One thing I have to make clear is that I indicate Bhutto's era as the the time before Zia's take-over. Maybe I should just say Pre-Zia's era since your independence.

If you count the years, Zia's era averaged 7-8%, Bhutto's era was one of the worst (Z Bhutto but this was because of the 1971 war perhaps). B Bhutto did alright, about the same as Zia, Nawaz Sharif did the worst, the mid 2000s (army rule) one of the best.

There is no amazing achievement in the 1960s that was not repeated after the 1980s. But the 1960s was a period of good growth also.

 

[53fd]

No no no no

Pakistan is of special interest for the United States to restrict China and Russia. India is unimportant.

Pakistan was used by the US to break up the Soviet Union, which Pakistan did. Now they are trying to use Pakistan to restrict China, whether that means the complete destruction of Pakistan, but China has seen the game plan of the US, & is firmly backing Pakistan. Pakistan has been caught in a wretched cycle, & is fighting all these challenges bravely, & is grateful to China for that. China sees its own interests as well, & Pakistan sees it as well. Making it a mutually beneficial relationship for both countries.

There are competing gas pipeline projects right now, the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India (TAPI) pipeline sponsored by the US; & the Iran-Pakistan-China (IPC) pipeline, initiated by Pakistan & Iran. The IPC pipeline utilizes energy resources from the Straits of Hormuz, whereas the TAPI pipeline utilizes energy resources from the Caspian Sea. The developing countries (Pakistan, India & even China) require increasing energy resources. The US built the TAPI pipeline in an effort to fulfill Pakistan & India's energy needs, all in an effort that doesn't China get anything. If China becomes completely energy independent, there will be huge problems for the US & its economy. These are the facts.