Pakistani parents give government three-day ultimatum to evacuate children from China

[masterchief_mirza]

HIV, influenza, ncov etc etc can show zero symptoms. Come on man - are you just trolling me now?

 

[Last starfighter]

Well, science convinces some but not others.

Look dude, honestly speaking, the risk cannot truly be completely negated, no matter what precautions are taken. Pakistan are playing safe - maybe too safe. I feel that on balance, considering the consequences for Pakistan of an outbreak, playing ultra safe is justifiable. Different nations have to make their own calculations.

You may be right - maybe it's overcautiousness for nothing.

I'm just reminding the folks here - both Your good self and those with more malevolent intent - that Pakistan is making decisions on the basis of scientific and rational arguments, which makes a nice change from the usual.


I never claimed this couldn't happen. The rationale is not about whether someone is Chinese or Pakistani or Martian. The rationale is that anyone from outside Wuhan and hubei province is statistically less likely to be infected. That's all.

Bro you are right.
Two condoms are better than abortion lmao

 

[BringHarmony]

Stop spreading garbage. Cases are present all over China but Wuhan and its province are the epicentre.

https://www.who.int/ith/2019-nCoV_advice_for_international_traffic/en/

No need to ban ALL traffic from China as per current WHO guidance.

Well lets see this shall we?

Around Jan 30, when Pakistan announced that she will not be evacuating her students from Wuhan, the number of confirmed cases ALL over China were around 5-6K (if you want I can share sources for this as well). This was enough to scare Pakistan's authorities into avoiding movement of Pakistan's students.

Now the situation is that on 13th Feb, the number of confirmed cases OUTSIDE Hubei and mostly in eastern China is 10K (again I can give you sources). AND YET Pakistan is A-okay with flights from China.

BTW, the guideline you shared is based on data available till 27th Jan. Its way past that point now.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...exas-asymptomatic-transmission-confirmed.html

Asymptomatic cases of corona virus.

 

[BringHarmony]

No need to ban ALL traffic from China as per current WHO guidance.

Meanwhile here is the LATEST guidelines from CDC (USA)

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/china

Travel warning: CDC recommends that travelers avoid all nonessential travel to the People’s Republic of China (this does not include the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau, or the island of Taiwan).

If Pakistan authorities feels confident in allowing travel from China in general --in face of all of this situation-- then they should also feel confident in handling their OWN citizens and evacuating them from Wuhan where life is getting tougher.

 

[Lincoln]

HIV, influenza, ncov etc etc can show zero symptoms. Come on man - are you just trolling me now?

Reply to me next time.

They show zero symptons during their incubation periods and their incubation periods are large, and in some cases because of how they function. But all viruses cause symptoms when they become active.

Specially corona virus.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Reply to me next time.

They show zero symptons during their incubation periods and their incubation periods are large. All viruses cause symptoms when they become active.

I shall ask you a simple question. Can a person be an infected carrier of a virus and not show symptoms but transmit the virus to others?

 

[Lincoln]

I shall ask you a simple question. Can a person be an infected carrier of a virus and not show symptoms but transmit the virus to others?

I will give you a simple answer.
For a corona virus, for only 21 days maximum.

 

[BringHarmony]

I shall ask you a simple question. Can a person be an infected carrier of a virus and not show symptoms but transmit the virus to others?

Answer is YES. Everyone's immune system and body response is different. You can be a carrier and yet develop no symptom.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Meanwhile here is the LATEST guidelines from CDC (USA)

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/china



If Pakistan authorities feels confident in allowing travel from China in general --in face of all of this situation-- then they should also feel confident in handling their OWN citizens and evacuating them from Wuhan where life is getting tougher.

In UK, ALL travel to hubei is discouraged while ALL BUT ESSENTIAL travel to the rest of China is discouraged. Certainly different nations are demonstrating different degrees of precaution. I don't disagree with that.

 

[Lincoln]

Answer is YES. Everyone's immune system and body response is different. You can be a carrier and yet develop no symptom.

We talking about corona virus here.

 

[BringHarmony]

No need to ban ALL traffic from China as per current WHO guidance.

Actually the guidelines you shared from WHO does not talk about banning ANY traffic, only doing screening. With that you should be able to evacuate folks from Wuhan at the earliest.

We talking about corona virus here.

Well to be honest, it is possible for many folks to not develop any symptom. If a person for instance uses beta blockers to manage hypertension or migrane or anxiety / panic attacks, their body temperature may remain perpetually low due to low heart rate caused by beta-blocker. In such situations, it is possible that earliest symptoms of mild fever may be totally missed.

This was just one possiblity. In real life scenarios many factors interplay together. The guidelines are usually given for very general cases but many time many medical conditions can mask each other's symptoms.

 

[Lincoln]

Actually the guidelines you shared from WHO does not talk about banning ANY traffic, only doing screening. With that you should be able to evacuate folks from Wuhan at the earliest.


Well to be honest, it is possible for many folks to not develop any symptom. If a person for instance uses beta blockers to manage hypertension or migrane or anxiety / panic attacks, their body temperature may remain perpetually low due to low heart rate caused by beta-blocker. In such situations, it is possible that earliest symptoms of mild fever may be totally missed.

This was just one possiblity. In real life scenarios many factors interplay together. The guidelines are usually given for very general cases but many time many medical conditions can mask each other's symptoms.

Ofcourse you can mask. But under a controlled, monitored environment, it won't be possible.

He's trying to ask general questions, keep it specific to Corona virus, he is trying everything to justify something ridiculous when it is justifiable. You will only enter a new cycle of argument unrelated.

 

[BringHarmony]

Ofcourse you can mask. But under a controlled, monitored environment, it won't be possible.

He's trying to ask general questions, keep it specific to Corona virus, he is trying everything to justify something ridiculous when it is justifiable. You will only enter a new cycle of argument unrelated.

Leaving all those things apart I disagree with the "small hole for small cat, big hole for big cat" approach to this situation. If it is safe to allow almost unlimited people movement from all over China - Hubei to Pakistan when the infection has spread in whole of eastern China, then refusing evacuation of one's own citizens from Wuhan makes no sense and is down right humiliating to general people to say the least.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

I will give you a simple answer.
For a corona virus, for only 21 days maximum.

Okay,let's assume you're right and corona virus will manifest with symptoms in all infectees within 21 days.

Here's what happens...

First be aware that quarantine doesn't mean isolation.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.le...s-quarantine-arrowe-park-hospital-1393119?amp

Patient x comes into Pakistan and is placed in quarantine but not immediately tested by pcr. In quarantine he is symptom free until day 20 hence he wasn't formally tested or isolated from family contacts. He infected patient y on day 18 and nurse z on day 19, neither of whom show symptoms either. Patient x has a positive pcr result and is then isolated but it's too late as the virus has already spread amongst the quarantine community. Somebody from that community has a false negative result on pcr and is allowed home without symptoms, with a negative pcr but fully infected and still within their own personal 14 or 21 or (insert incubation period here) whatever day period.

Job done.

We talking about corona virus here.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/gulfne...-coronavirus-without-symptoms-1.1580296642401

Just to be clear, corona virus can be asymptomatic and you can be a silent carrier of it. There are plenty of examples.