Featured Pakistani Navy confirms Brazilian jetliner will replace Orion patrol aircraft

[White and Green with M/S]

Why would you spend on improving airframe if the sensors are of no use?

overhaul doesn't mean we can improve the sensors/technologies of the aircraft, our Mirages are the prime example, we overhauling them since we had been get them (67) until Rose upgrades

I ain't providing u jack !..... do ur own leg work

Because you have no proofs that we have upgrades our P3C to modern standards, every respected members are come up with the backup of their claim, you gave us nothing, and you have no logic/commonsense, you're just spreading a rumors/speculations

 

[White and Green with M/S]

I ain't providing u jack !..... do ur own leg work

You're claiming so its burden on you to provide a backup of your claim, if we are upgraded our P3C then why are we buying Sea Sultan??

 

[TsAr]

overhaul doesn't mean we can improve the sensors/technologies of the aircraft, our Mirages are the prime example, we overhauling them since we had been get them (67) until Rose upgrades

Can you provide a proof of your claim that sensors are not upgraded on the P3C?

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Can you provide a proof of your claim that sensors are not upgraded on the P3C?

Think logically brother overhaul means we are overhauling (updating the performance of the AIRFRAME), if there were a sensor upgrades we should be contracted western firms to upgrade the sensors of P3C (we unable to make/manufacture of the sensors of P3C especially it acoustic sensors) if we had contracted to upgrades its sensors everyone knows that

 

[Falcon26]

I will save you guys sometime so you can save some bandwidth for the rest of us.


“As prime contractor to the U.S. Navy's Naval Air Systems Command, Lockheed Martin is the mission system integrator for the P-3C aircraft's mission avionics, including surveillance sensors, acoustic sensors, weapons control, communications, survivability, displays, and controls. The P-3C weapons system is the primary maritime surveillance aircraft operated by the U.S. Navy and 17 international allies.”

Lockheed Martin Awarded $186 Million Contract to Upgrade P-3C Maritime Surveillance Aircraft Mission Systems for Pakistan Navy

More.


“The upgrades to the aircraft include new communications, electro-optic and infrared systems, data management, controls and displays, mission computers and acoustic processing.

The navy said that the aircraft’s extended surveillance capability and modified avionics/sensors will assist in conducting continuous patrols of its vital areas of interest in the North Arabian Sea.”

Pakistan Navy receives second batch of P-3C Orion aircraft

The Pakistani Navy has received its second batch of two upgraded US-built P-3C Orion maritime surveillance aircraft at the navy's Naval Aviation Base in Karachi, Pakistan.

www.naval-technology.com

 

[Yasser76]

P3C are a potent platform and will remain the main stay of PN for the forsee able future.
PN has been operating them for the last so many decades and know they inside out. They received a retrofit and a systems update just a couple of years ago, making them up-to-date and the only system that has an edge over them is the p8.

Having said that it was our p3c that detected the scorpene and made it come up till periscope depth ( should have blown it out of the water or capture it). While no p8 was able to detect our subs .
If that does not tell u all about the potency of our p3c than nothing will

The upgrade to the P-3Cs was carried out around 2005-2007 time. About 15 years ago. You contradict yourself when you say the P-8 has an edge over them yet did not detect our subs. This was due to PN operating the P-3C for 20 years, and IN being very new to the P-8 (as you state)
The upgrade was the Update II.5 level. Sub hunting tech and missile tech have progressed very far in last 15 years. The detection systems in the plane, the ECCM in the Harpoon (and it's relatively short range) mean these beasts are still effective but probably unable to hunt and find the latest subs and take on Indian ships beyond the range of many of their long range SAMs.

You can read about the history of PN P-3Cs here

Pakistan's P-3 Orion Maritime Aircraft - and their Harpoons - Defense Industry Daily

Pakistani P-3(click to view full) Pakistan's location on the Indian Ocean next to the Persian Gulf, and its rivalry with India, ensure that its maritime patrol and strike capabilities will need to operate across a wide expanse of ocean. Maritime patrol aircraft are critical to that effort...

www.defenseindustrydaily.com

How feasible it is to maintain a fleet of just 7 (assume more attrition so could be 5 in 20 years) is questionable. Especially as we will need to replace many electronic systems from the US who may not manufacture them anymore.

Secondly, it is a very good bet PN MPAs may at one point be tasked with locating US ships and Subs near Pak coastline in the future

Finally why would PN be inducting Sultans now if we are planning on using P-3Cs for another 20 years, why have three types of MPA in service at the same time?

 

[Reichmarshal]

The upgrade to the P-3Cs was carried out around 2005-2007 time. About 15 years ago. You contradict yourself when you say the P-8 has an edge over them yet did not detect our subs. This was due to PN operating the P-3C for 20 years, and IN being very new to the P-8 (as you state)
The upgrade was the Update II.5 level. Sub hunting tech and missile tech have progressed very far in last 15 years. The detection systems in the plane, the ECCM in the Harpoon (and it's relatively short range) mean these beasts are still effective but probably unable to hunt and find the latest subs and take on Indian ships beyond the range of many of their long range SAMs.

You can read about the history of PN P-3Cs here

Pakistan's P-3 Orion Maritime Aircraft - and their Harpoons - Defense Industry Daily

Pakistani P-3(click to view full) Pakistan's location on the Indian Ocean next to the Persian Gulf, and its rivalry with India, ensure that its maritime patrol and strike capabilities will need to operate across a wide expanse of ocean. Maritime patrol aircraft are critical to that effort...

www.defenseindustrydaily.com

How feasible it is to maintain a fleet of just 7 (assume more attrition so could be 5 in 20 years) is questionable. Especially as we will need to replace many electronic systems from the US who may not manufacture them anymore.

Secondly, it is a very good bet PN MPAs may at one point be tasked with locating US ships and Subs near Pak coastline in the future

Finally why would PN be inducting Sultans now if we are planning on using P-3Cs for another 20 years, why have three types of MPA in service at the same time?

Ppl on this forum have stopped reading posts but rather just read the first few lines and form opinions based on that.

Plz read my post again.

 

[araz]

The upgrade to the P-3Cs was carried out around 2005-2007 time. About 15 years ago. You contradict yourself when you say the P-8 has an edge over them yet did not detect our subs. This was due to PN operating the P-3C for 20 years, and IN being very new to the P-8 (as you state)
The upgrade was the Update II.5 level. Sub hunting tech and missile tech have progressed very far in last 15 years. The detection systems in the plane, the ECCM in the Harpoon (and it's relatively short range) mean these beasts are still effective but probably unable to hunt and find the latest subs and take on Indian ships beyond the range of many of their long range SAMs.

You can read about the history of PN P-3Cs here

Pakistan's P-3 Orion Maritime Aircraft - and their Harpoons - Defense Industry Daily

Pakistani P-3(click to view full) Pakistan's location on the Indian Ocean next to the Persian Gulf, and its rivalry with India, ensure that its maritime patrol and strike capabilities will need to operate across a wide expanse of ocean. Maritime patrol aircraft are critical to that effort...

www.defenseindustrydaily.com

How feasible it is to maintain a fleet of just 7 (assume more attrition so could be 5 in 20 years) is questionable. Especially as we will need to replace many electronic systems from the US who may not manufacture them anymore.

Secondly, it is a very good bet PN MPAs may at one point be tasked with locating US ships and Subs near Pak coastline in the future

Finally why would PN be inducting Sultans now if we are planning on using P-3Cs for another 20 years, why have three types of MPA in service at the same time?

I would agree with both your and @Reichmarshal's posts. Possibly you are both looking at the same picture with different angles.
No one denies that the upgrade is 10-15 yrs old. The fact that PN has an ITAR free alternative in the picture means further updates will either not be sought, granted or be cost viable. The Sea Sultan remains a replacement programme for the P3s and the number of 10 points to the replacement of the whole fleet as was envisaged by PN.
If a contract for the first 3 has been given now then we are looking at 3 years for induction. Subsequent contracts with modifications will take us to 2030 and provided funds are available is a logical time frame in which to field the replacements and gain the necessary replacements.
However,IF THERE IS STILL SOME LIFE LEFT, PN may still continue using P3s till they retire. This is the only scenario I can see developing to combine the 2 thought processes into a seamless plan of action. However, the ATARs being there and the speed of induction of the Embrear platform points to replacement sooner rather than later. The key will be the time of induction and the satisfaction of the PN with the platform and evolving technologies. Let us watch this space

 

[Yasser76]

Ppl on this forum have stopped reading posts but rather just read the first few lines and form opinions based on that.

Plz read my post again.

Rather then be condescending you may want to point out what part of your post I may not of read. This will help the debate, and incidentally help you in life in general, as well as maybe getting rid of the text speak.

Thanks

 

[Reichmarshal]

Rather then be condescending you may want to point out what part of your post I may not of read. This will help the debate, and incidentally help you in life in general, as well as maybe getting rid of the text speak.

Thanks

If ur unable to comprehend the very simple line stating " plz read my post again", and need help understanding comprehending simple plain text speak.
Than it would be best if this conversation regarding this particular subject ends with this post.

Regards

 

[Silicon0000]

Pakistan hires Leonardo, Paramount Group for aircraft conversion program

Follow-on contracts are expected to bring Pakistan's total number of Sea Sultan aircraft to 10, replacing the country’s long-serving P-3C Orion fleet.

www.defensenews.com

LEONARDO WINS BID TO CONVERT PAKISTAN NAVY EMBRAER LINEAGE 1000s INTO LONG RANGE MPAs

An attendant stands beside a model of the Embraer Lineage 1000 business jet during the Asian Aerospace Show in Hong Kong on March 8, 2011. (Kin Cheung/AP) ISLAMABAD — Pakistan has hired an Italian defense company to convert three Embraer Lineage 1000 regional jetliners into long-range maritime...

defence.pk

 

[Yasser76]

If ur unable to comprehend the very simple line stating " plz read my post again", and need help understanding comprehending simple plain text speak.
Than it would be best if this conversation regarding this particular subject ends with this post.

Regards

Yes ur rit lets all use text spk!

Laterz.

 

[The SC]

 

[AR KHAN]

1. Orions are to be replaced by Sea Sultan.
2. Because of Orion's surveillance ability, they were used in WOT by PK in the warzone. And the forces found it exceptionally helpful. In this regard I am assuming if PK doesn't decommission the Orion then:
a) They might be using P3's for other roles than it's primary antiship & antisubmarine role in future. After all knowledge is power and PK's has never compromised on its informational aspect of warfare.
b) And the airframe's upgrade is not that much of a big deal. We can manage it. Choty moty cheezon me masla nahi banaty US wale. Because itna hamesha cooperate karain ge k PK ki military establishment engaged rahay.
3. No of aircrafts (Sultans) might be linked to point no.2. If it decommission Orion then, greater number only suggests that a few might be used as ground surveillance aircraft in other theaters. To my understanding of PN, ten is too big of a number for naval specific role.
5. P8 is indeed a bigger and more capable platform. Its technicaly an ocean going platform or for larger navies/coastline. Neither is PK's intention to contest Indian Ocean or have large navy/coastline to have an MPA of that capability. PK will have the capability and capacity to perform all such tasks which a P8 can perform. Either by Sultan or through other assets. For that same reason it won't be armed to the teeth. Just look at the Sea Eagle's of PN. It is only capable of carrying only 2 light weight torpedoes. Though its role is different to the MPA's.
6. For PK, finances always have been one of the major determinant for choice and doctrine. 150-200 arab rupees me ye capacity and quality hasil kerna is a major success story. I must say I am impressed.
7. Last, PN only detected the Scorpene just because it came into over waters and they didn't spotted ours just because it remained hidden in our side of the waters. Only for the sake of peace and not to climb the ladder of escalation.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

1. Orions are to be replaced by Sea Sultan.
2. Because of Orion's surveillance ability, they were used in WOT by PK in the warzone. And the forces found it exceptionally helpful. In this regard I am assuming if PK doesn't decommission the Orion then:
a) They might be using P3's for other roles than it's primary antiship & antisubmarine role in future. After all knowledge is power and PK's has never compromised on its informational aspect of warfare.
b) And the airframe's upgrade is not that much of a big deal. We can manage it. Choty moty cheezon me masla nahi banaty US wale. Because itna hamesha cooperate karain ge k PK ki military establishment engaged rahay.
3. No of aircrafts (Sultans) might be linked to point no.2. If it decommission Orion then, greater number only suggests that a few might be used as ground surveillance aircraft in other theaters. To my understanding of PN, ten is too big of a number for naval specific role.
5. P8 is indeed a bigger and more capable platform. Its technicaly an ocean going platform or for larger navies/coastline. Neither is PK's intention to contest Indian Ocean or have large navy/coastline to have an MPA of that capability. PK will have the capability and capacity to perform all such tasks which a P8 can perform. Either by Sultan or through other assets. For that same reason it won't be armed to the teeth. Just look at the Sea Eagle's of PN. It is only capable of carrying only 2 light weight torpedoes. Though its role is different to the MPA's.
6. For PK, finances always have been one of the major determinant for choice and doctrine. 150-200 arab rupees me ye capacity and quality hasil kerna is a major success story. I must say I am impressed.
7. Last, PN only detected the Scorpene just because it came into over waters and they didn't spotted ours just because it remained hidden in our side of the waters. Only for the sake of peace and not to climb the ladder of escalation.

How about using P3 in challenging and arduous terrain of Balochistan.