Pakistani JF-17 - A Thunder, NOT a Blunder.

[phrozenflame]

Recently, there was an article at some place implying JF-17 was a blunder, well..I suppose some sort of reply was in order.

JF-17 Thunder Multi-role fighter aircraft - Not a Blunder
JF-17 was designed specifically to meet the requirements of Pakistani Air force. Pakistan air force needed an affordable fighter, which could be produced in significant numbers with decent capabilities. It was supposed to be an inexpensive light-weight medium-tech fighter jet, not prone to western sanctions. When everything was said and done, JF-17 had met all these requirements. When the aircraft entered service, it was superior than all types of aircrafts in Pakistani inventory other than Block 52 F-16 C/D. Let’s not forget though, that as per Pakistani defense minister Mr. Mukhtar, JF-17 comes at a price of $20-25m a piece, as compared to F-16s, costing $80mn a unit. Fighter jet's design was completed and it entered operational service in a very short amount of time.

If we’re fishing for blunders, we need not look much further than in our own neighborhood. Compare JF-17 with a similar program of a neighboring country, where lack of capabilities, bureaucratic inefficiencies and changing goal posts has meant that an aircraft has been under development for more than two decades. The testing of the supposed indigenous LCA-TEJAS is still ongoing, despite having technological and hardware support from USA, Russia, Israel and Europe. While LCA-Tejas still goes through the trials, the production of Block-II JF-17s will commence shortly in China, if not started already. The Block-IIs are reported to have superior avionics and better performance than the current versions of JF-17s. What is known so far of JF-17’s upgrade path includes design changes to incorporate stealthy capabilities, AESA radars, IRST, retractable air-refueling probe and more use of composite materials. Pakistan will have at least 90 JF-17s by the end of 2011. LCAs will get operational clearance by late 2012, provided that no more delays occur, by that time Block-III JF-17s are expected to be in production.

Indian online communities once touted that LCA-Tejas was as good as any Euro-canard, yet we saw all Euro-canards participate in MMRCA, with Dassault Rafale and Euro-fighter making it into the finals. If LCA-Tejas was actually on par and had been ready on time, India would not be spending over $10bn on foreign aircrafts if the supposed indigenous aircraft was superior or even close in capabilities to MMRCA contestants. But as we know, the reality is far from it.

Another myth, considered to be reality amongst segments of certain areas elements in Indian online communities is that JF-17 is similar and/or on par with J-7s (Mig-21). Anyone having slightest of knowledge in aviation knows that not only is the JF-17 design very different from that of Mig-21, but that it is clearly superior than that plane. Compared to Mig-21, JF-17 has superior design, superior airframe, superior engine, superior avionics and superior weaponry. JF-17 was always supposed to be well superior of Mig-21 variants. Why would Pakistan spend money to replace Mig-21 variants with an aircraft that is similar in capabilities?

It has often been argued that since JF-17 is all Chinese, it is somehow going to be inferior. As we have discovered, China is only the third country in the world to develop a stealth fighter. Only second country to be able to fund the development entirely. The aviation industry of China has moved at a rapid pace. They have decades of experience in aviation industry, there expertise far surpasses that of Indian industry.

Pakistan had option to integrate European avionics yet Pakistan chose to go with Chinese versions. According to PAF, the Chinese avionics met air force’s requirements and at a cheaper price than what was offered by the Europeans. Let us not forget the idea of JF-17s gained momentum only after western sanctions when the western weapons were rendered very limited. JF-17s will not be affected by western sanctions.

JF-17 is a stunning success story and a model for other developing nations.

Source: jF-17

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Well LCA and JF 17 are not comparable on the programme level. Both are totally different. Yes we failed and we learnt a lot from it. It gave us the most important technological base that we got from 'reinventing the wheel'. And I wouldnt say Thunder is a 'Blunder' no sane guy having some basic knowledge of aeronautics and aircrafts wouldnt say so. Project Vetrivel is to build the indigenous 'DESIGN' capability of India, and Thunder is to build the indigenous manufacturing capability in Pakistan.

So comparing both the projects as a program is futile....they both have acheived their goal.

My 2 cents.

 

[cw2005]

Well LCA and JF 17 are not comparable on the programme level. Both are totally different. Yes we failed and we learnt a lot from it. It gave us the most important technological base that we got from 'reinventing the wheel'. And I wouldnt say Thunder is a 'Blunder' no sane guy having some basic knowledge of aeronautics and aircrafts wouldnt say so. Project Vetrivel is to build the indigenous 'DESIGN' capability of India, and Thunder is to build the indigenous manufacturing capability in Pakistan.

So comparing both the projects as a program is futile....they both have acheived their goal.

My 2 cents.

Fair comments and well said.

The situation and requirement to develop fighter in China, Pakistan and India are not the same. In China, with blockage of needed technologies from the outside world, China has no choice but taking the policy of so called "little step with fast pace". That is why the country is to produce something simple first followed by series of improvement.

India could get assistance from anywhere as far as she is willing to pay for it. India could also buy off-the-shelve quality fighters to satisfy her need. There is no need to produce her own fighter in a hurry.

Of course we have different situation in Pakistan that dictates their need and timing.

In short, no one is going to spend a lot of money for nothing. Everyone pay and get what they want.

 

[Kaniska]

Sensible comment.

 

[A.Muqeet khan]

Well LCA and JF 17 are not comparable on the programme level. Both are totally different. Yes we failed and we learnt a lot from it. It gave us the most important technological base that we got from 'reinventing the wheel'. And I wouldnt say Thunder is a 'Blunder' no sane guy having some basic knowledge of aeronautics and aircrafts wouldnt say so. Project Vetrivel is to build the indigenous 'DESIGN' capability of India, and Thunder is to build the indigenous manufacturing capability in Pakistan.

So comparing both the projects as a program is futile....they both have acheived their goal.

My 2 cents.

finally u have earned my respect like no indian before you has got

 

[danger007]

Mikoyan joins Chengdu on fighter


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By:
12:00 21 Jun 1995
Source:



CHENGDU AIRCRAFT (CAC) has teamed with Mikoyan MAPO to design and produce a new single-engine fighter to replace China's now defunct Super-7 project

The FC-1 is being developed as a private venture funded by CAC, China National Aero-Technology Import and Export (CATIC) and Pakistan. The aircraft is aimed principally at the export market, with the Pakistan air force expected to be the initial user.

CATIC is pushing for support from Aviation Industries of China (AVIC) and is confident of selling the lightweight fighter to China's PLA air force.

The aircraft has been under development since 1991, and is now in the detailed design phase. Two partial forward- and rear- fuselage mock-ups have been completed. A single-seat prototype is scheduled for a first flight in 1997. A two-seat aircraft is also planned.

Production is due to start in 1999 at CAC. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex will initially, produce parts for the FC-1 and is discussing the establishment, of a second production line.

Mikoyan is providing design support and has seconded a team of engineers to CAC. The aircraft resembles an earlier Mikoyan design given the internal designation MiG-33. The design, developed in the early 1980s, was intended as a light dogfight aircraft.

The FC-1 has been designed around the 80kN (18,300lb)-thrust Klimov RD-93 turbofan. The engine is an improved modular development of the RD-33 engine, which was also intended to power the MiG-33.

The FC-1 design, however, differs with adoption of twin side-mounted air intakes. Liyang Machinery of Guizhou, plans to produce the RD-93 under licence in China.

It will feature seven hard-points, including wingtip pylons for PL-7/10 short-range air-to-air missiles. A pulse Doppler multi-role radar has yet to be selected. Pakistan is expected to make a decision on its own avionics suite and weapon system within three to five months.


i found this one..............

 

[danger007]

Pakistan nears FC-1 avionics decision


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By:
12:00 18 Oct 1995
Source:



COMPETING WESTERN manufacturers expect Pakistan to select radar, an avionics suite and a systems integrator before the end of the year for its planned FC-1 (MiG-21) fighter now being developed by Chengdu Aircraft.

The FC-1 is a successor to the now-defunct Super 7 project, and it is intended primarily as a replacement for the earlier Chengdu F-7 lightweight series. Pakistan has a requirement for up to 150 fighters, with the first aircraft expected to go into production by 1999 (Flight International, 21-27 June).

Pakistan is looking to suppliers in the West for a complete range of avionics to install in the FC-1, including multi-mode pulse- Doppler radar, stores-management system, inertial-navigation system and radar altimeter, head-up display and multi-function displays.

GEC-Marconi and Sagem are competing for an overall avionics-integration contract. Sagem has proposed an avionics system, similar to the one ordered for Pakistan's upgraded Dassault Mirage III fleet.

FIAR's Grifo radar is understood to be the favourite for the FC-1. Pakistan has already selected the Grifo M and Grifo 7 versions respectively for its Mirage III and F-7 upgrades. Also competing for the order are GEC-Marconi, offering its Blue Hawk, and Thomson-CSF, offering new radar-data-converter product.

Russia's Phazotron has proposed fitting the FC-1 with its multi-mode Super Komar radar, based on the Kopyo radar offered on the upgraded Mikoyan MiG-21-93. The Super Komar equipment incorporates a new digital signal and data processor.