Pakistani Hindus demand religious freedom

[Hyde]

They should enjoy as much freedom as any other Pakistani. If there is something lacking then their problems should definitely be resolved immediately.

 

[Indischer]

Unless you are a Sunni Muslim, it's very hard to put yourself in such shoes. It's why I never pretend to know what a common Hindu is thinking, whether he's Pakistani or India. No common Pakistani thinks of Hindus or India as evil, just unneeded adversaries that Pakistan's political and military elite are using to exploit them. Trust me when I say that the days of India being the bad guy in Pakistan is next to finished. There will always be extremists that want conflict with India and Hindus, but that shouldn't be reflected on the entire population. After all, if I were to follow that logic, I'd have to believe Shiv Sena, when it makes claims that it's every Hindu's duty to purge India of non-Hindus and especially Muslims.

Well, you moved away from Hindus and into India. Anyways, good to know if Hindus aren't seen as some sort of evil cohort and a blight upon the landscape of Pakistan. And regarding the likes of Shiv Sena, believe me when I say that the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis do think exactly what you described there.

 

[That Guy]

Well, you moved away from Hindus and into India. Anyways, good to know if Hindus aren't seen as some sort of evil cohort and a blight upon the landscape of Pakistan. And regarding the likes of Shiv Sena, believe me when I say that the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis do think exactly what you described there.

As a Pakistani, I know what the overwhelming opinion of Pakistanis are better than you do, because I've lived in the country (you have not). If I said "trust me, a vast majority of Indians believe that Pakistanis should all be slaughtered", you have no reason to believe me, because you're Indian, you'd know this better than I would.

This is not something you need to know, simply because it's common sense and you should already know it. Honestly, either you're a troll, or if you actually believe everything you've said, then you're completely nuts.

 

[Indischer]

As a Pakistani, I know what the overwhelming opinion of Pakistanis are better than you do, because I've lived in the country (you have not). If I said "trust me, a vast majority of Indians believe that Pakistanis should all be slaughtered", you have no reason to believe me, because you're Indian, you'd know this better than I would.

This is not something you need to know, simply because it's common sense and you should already know it. Honestly, either you're a troll, or if you actually believe everything you've said, then you're completely nuts.

My observations stem from my interactions and observations from those Pakisanis that I'm fortunate to interact with, either in person or on the cyberspace. This being the case, either the Pakistanis I meet are all fringe elements within the Pakistani society or that they make poor examples of the larger society that you've had the chance to live amongst and experience. So which is it? For starters, are PDF and overseas Pakistanis a credible source?

 

[That Guy]

My observations stem from my interactions and observations from those Pakisanis that I'm fortunate to interact with, either in person or on the cyberspace. This being the case, either the Pakistanis I meet are all fringe elements within the Pakistani society or that they make poor examples of the larger society that you've had the chance to live amongst and experience. So which is it? For starters, are PDF and overseas Pakistanis a credible source?

Well, are you a credible source? By your very logic (and one I agree with), I shouldn't believe a thing of what you're saying without some credible evidence, and I don't. Your observations are either flawed, or you're making things up. I highly doubt that this is what those Pakistanis you claim to have met actually believe.

I really have nothing more to say on this subject, as it feels like I'm going in circles. If you want to continue believing such things, be my guest. Nothing you say or I say on these forums has any impact on the real world, so who cares.

 

[Aka123]

Please elaborate ?

That's nothing, just Pakistani wet dreams. Not sure why Pakistani Muslims are so much caring about Indian muslims.
Where was this caring attitude during partition?
That time everybody fled without even looking back towards their so called 'comrades'.
After crossing the border, in a safe place, their care has increased ten fold. Very brave, must say!

 

[Indischer]

Well, are you a credible source? By your very logic (and one I agree with), I shouldn't believe a thing of what you're saying without some credible evidence, and I don't. Your observations are either flawed, or you're making things up. I highly doubt that this is what those Pakistanis you claim to have met actually believe.

I really have nothing more to say on this subject, as it feels like I'm going in circles. If you want to continue believing such things, be my guest. Nothing you say or I say on these forums has any impact on the real world, so who cares.

Ain't that true for every discussion that takes place here? But I see my discussions (outside the members' club)here as a chance to enhance my own understanding of issues I am interested in. If you had observed, I haven't brought forth any opinion as my own or what I believe in.

Let's do away with our observations and delve into supporting our personal opinions then. You haven't explained yet how exactly harboring minorities and safeguarding them is good for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and how exactly it's going to help in development. Hypothetically, if a religious fundamentalist were to say that a 100% Muslim Pakistan is good(all Sunni preferably), how would you counter his line of thought?

 

[That Guy]

Ain't that true for every discussion that takes place here? But I see my discussions (outside the members' club)here as a chance to enhance my own understanding of issues I am interested in. If you had observed, I haven't brought forth any opinion as my own or what I believe in.

Let's do away with our observations and delve into supporting our personal opinions then. You haven't explained yet how exactly harboring minorities and safeguarding them is good for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and how exactly it's going to help in development. Hypothetically, if a religious fundamentalist were to say that a 100% Muslim Pakistan is good(all Sunni preferably), how would you counter his line of thought?

Well, for one thing, the international community wouldn't tolerate such a thing, and Pakistan would immediately be isolated. This would affect Pakistan's economy and development in a negative way, so mass conversions is out of the equation. Besides, why should they be forced to convert? You haven't explained that other than towing a sectarian line. Why doesn't the Pakistani establishment instead do what most developed nations do? Teach respect and acceptance of minorities. It's a much cheaper, easier, and less damning effort.

Safeguarding minorities is a government's duty, and if investors see that minorities are being targeted, those same investors may sympathize with the persecuted minority and take their investment elsewhere.

There is also the biggest problem, the risk of civil war. The minority in question isn't going to take this lying down, and they will fight back.

Globalization is the future, and Pakistan cannot risk alienating itself from the rest of the world. Let me ask you, do you honestly think nothing bad would happen if India forcefully converted every Muslims, Christian and whatever minority to Hinduism?

[PS] I should also mention that KSA can get away with it because of it's wealth and natural resources, one of which Pakistan doesn't have and the other that Pakistan cannot exploit.

 

[Indischer]

Well, for one thing, the international community wouldn't tolerate such a thing, and Pakistan would immediately be isolated. This would affect Pakistan's economy and development in a negative way, so mass conversions is out of the equation. Besides, why should they be forced to convert? You haven't explained that other than towing a sectarian line. Why doesn't the Pakistani establishment instead do what most developed nations do? Teach respect and acceptance of minorities. It's a much cheaper, easier, and less damning effort.

Safeguarding minorities is a government's duty, and if investors see that minorities are being targeted, those same investors may sympathize with the persecuted minority and take their investment elsewhere.

There is also the biggest problem, the risk of civil war. The minority in question isn't going to take this lying down, and they will fight back.

Globalization is the future, and Pakistan cannot risk alienating itself from the rest of the world. Let me ask you, do you honestly think nothing bad would happen if India forcefully converted every Muslims, Christian and whatever minority to Hinduism?

I towed the fundamentalist line because they're the ones who have shown the intent and means to rid the nation of it's minorities. The Government hasn't fostered this thought process, neither has it done enough to counter this.

The international community hasn't done anything so far. If done slowly enough( the current pace is apt), it can easily slip under the radar of the international community or UN. And 3% rebelling and waging civil war? numerical superiority will end it rather swiftly in that case.

Fully agree with your stance and the bolded parts though. IMO, Pakistan's Government has been a major failure in this regard. But from where can they derive credibility for their affirmative action towards the minorities though? The circumstances of Pakistan's creation and the wording in it's constitution amply clarify that the minorities aren't exactly included in the National consciousness. Regarding such a scenario in India, the constitution does not proclaim India as a Hindu Republic. Hence, a large part of the legitimacy that Governments derive for protecting minorities come from this one single, simple word in our Constitution.

Can a Pakistani Government become strong enough to take on fundamentalist ideology in the near future? The fate of minorities is firmly tied with this development.

 

[khujliwal]

Please elaborate ?

Sorry to jump in but i agree that muslims in India

Are not allowed to blow themselves
Are not allowed to consider other muslims less muslims
Are not allowed to wage terrorist acts against foreign countries
Are not allowed to use a radio to go berserk with hate speeches
Are not allowed to sing "ummah chumma de de" while begging

 

[jarves]

Why @PWFI post's was deleted?? Which rule did it broke?? @Aeronaut??

 

[cheekybird]

They should enjoy as much freedom as any other Pakistani. If there is something lacking then their problems should definitely be resolved immediately.

Maa sadkay,you sound like a typical pakistani politition sirf bayan bazi

 

[jarves]

Maa sadkay,you sound like a typical pakistani politition sirf bayan bazi

Well Cheeky didi,I also want you to amswer the quesion that do you consider Pakistani Hindus as Pakistani's or noT??

 

[Zarvan]

Lahore: The minority Hindu community in Pakistan has asked the government to ensure religious freedom, protection of lives and properties and grant them their fundamental rights.

A 50-member delegation made the demands while celebrating "Holi" organised by the South Asia Partnership-Pakistan here yesterday.

"Among the major problems we are facing despite being the citizens of Pakistan since birth are the registration of marriages because no family laws are available for us," said Kanwal Kishor, a delegate member from Punjab province.

"Our elders struggled for establishing Pakistan, but we are not even regarded as third grade citizens. We are discriminated in every field, including education," she said.

Kishor said nothing about the Hindu community and their religion have been included in school syllabus despite the fact that Hindus are the largest religious minority in Pakistan. "Our children also get education from schools but nothing about inter-faith harmony is taught to all children."

She said there were eight reserved seats for minorities in Punjab Assembly and out of them only one seat is reserved for Hindus despite the fact that Hindus are the major religious minority group in Punjab, a province of 90-million. Another delegate Pandit Channa Lal from Rawalpindi said in case any Hindu child up to the age of 12 years dies, he or she is buried but unfortunately there is no graveyard.

He demanded that the burial place should be allocated to them besides residential plots and houses.

"There is no respect for our places of worship and it can be gauged from this reality that a temple in Saidpur Village (Islamabad) is changed into a hotel by authorities," he said. Other delegates complained about some government departments seizing their religious places and agricultural lands.

They cited an example of a temple in Rahim Yar Khan, some 400 km from Lahore, that was allotted to someone through fake auction. They said they are afraid of worshipping and even celebrating Holi publicly, particularly after a recent incident at Larkana district in Sindh province.

On March 15, a frenzied mob had set on fire a temple and a 'Dharamshala' in Larkana over alleged desecration of a holy book.

Hindus are the largest minority in Pakistan but make up only about two per cent of the country's 180 million population.

Off course state needs to do it they should make sure their places of worship are protected and they are given full protection and health and education facilities that is order of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW

 

[INDIC]

Do you honestly think this is what Pakistanis feel? If you do, you need to honestly rethink your entire outlook on life, because you have problems if you think that. The ordinary Pakistani doesn't even care about religion or race, they just care about their every day life, just like the ordinary India. If I said something similar about India, I can guarantee you that I'd have Indians coming to me calling me crazy, of an Islamist, or anti-Indian.

Pakstanis don't have a problem with religious minorities, and while Pakistan was built for as a state primarily for Muslims, it wasn't just built for them. Like I told @INDIC , the flag of Pakistan is enough to prove you wrong.

The 11th August Speech or the white in your flag is too insignificant because they are are against the Two Nation Theory. thus forget Hindus getting treated as equal but will they even be considered as the part of Pakistan.