Pakistani FM Hina Rabbani avoids Bangladeshi FM Momen’s call to seek apology for 1971 genocide at Colombo

[surmabhopali]

Well, it took Abul Fazal 13 years to compile Ain-i-Akbari and he began his work in 1590. So, Ain-i-Akbari is the official record of early seventeenth century Mughal Empire. Mughals lost control of Bengal in the early 18th century. Until and unless you have some official records/documents to backup your claim that Bengal, 3 times poorer than Punjab in the early seventeenth century Mughal empire, went on to become the richest province producing as much as 50% of entire GDP of the Mughal Empire (and upto 12% of the entire world) in just less than 50 years, your claim cannot be accepted.

As for international trade, unlike modern times, it constituted a very small part of the GDP back in the seventeenth century. So, please tell us, what, according to you, made Bengal so rich in just 50 years ?

And please provide the original/primary source for the ridiculous numbers you are quoting here



We, unlike you, are an independent nation who refuse to accept Indian/Hindu hegemony. No comparison

During last days of Aurangjeb's rule Bangals annual revenue was eagerly awaited by the ministers at delhi and the badshah who was in south at that time , major portion of war machinery and expenses at south was being run by revenue brought from bangal . It seems bangal supplied maximum revenue to the delhi darbar even after death of aurangjeb . This i have read in a book written on Aurangjeb and his time by a great indian historian and authority on Aurangjeb and his time Prof Yadunath sarkar , his book is considered authentic record on Aurangjeb and his total reign right from his birth to death .

 

[Species]

Well, it took Abul Fazal 13 years to compile Ain-i-Akbari and he began his work in 1590. So, Ain-i-Akbari is the official record of early seventeenth century Mughal Empire. Mughals lost control of Bengal in the early 18th century. Until and unless you have some official records/documents to backup your claim that Bengal, 3 times poorer than Punjab in the early seventeenth century Mughal empire, went on to become the richest province producing as much as 50% of entire GDP of the Mughal Empire (and upto 12% of the entire world) in just less than 50 years, your claim cannot be accepted.

Akbar couldn't conquer entire Bengal, he only held Bihar, Jharkhand and parts of western Bengal. All the main industries of Bengal (muslin, shipbuilding) were located in eastern Bengal which was still ruled by a confederacy of local zamindars known as Baro Bhuiyan led by Isa Khan and his son Musa Khan. It was only during Jahangir's reign that Bengal came under Mughal rule entirely, so Ain-i-Akbar's estimation doesn't show entire picture of Bengal's economy. The rise and decline of Mughal Empire also coincided with the integration and independence of Bengal which itself shows the contribution of Bengal's economy.

 

[M. Sarmad]

During last days of Aurangjeb's rule Bangals annual revenue was eagerly awaited by the ministers at delhi and the badshah who was in south at that time , major portion of war machinery and expenses at south was being run by revenue brought from bangal . It seems bangal supplied maximum revenue to the delhi darbar even after death of aurangjeb . This i have read in a book written on Aurangjeb and his time by a great indian historian and authority on Aurangjeb and his time Prof Yadunath sarkar , his book is considered authentic record on Aurangjeb and his total reign right from his birth to death .

Akbar couldn't conquer entire Bengal, he only held Bihar, Jharkhand and parts of western Bengal. All the main industries of Bengal (muslin, shipbuilding) were located in eastern Bengal which was still ruled by a confederacy of local zamindars known as Baro Bhuiyan led by Isa Khan and his son Musa Khan. It was only during Jahangir's reign that Bengal came under Mughal rule entirely, so Ain-i-Akbar's estimation doesn't show entire picture of Bengal's economy. The rise and decline of Mughal Empire also coincided with the integration and independence of Bengal which itself shows the contribution of Bengal's economy.

All I am asking for is a primary source for the figures being quoted here.

You guys claim that Bengal alone produced 12% of entire world's GDP in the pre-colonial India. Official documents from the early seventeenth century tell us otherwise.

All I want to confirm is whether you guys have any primary source to backup those figures, or are those numbers (just like the 3 million figure) just pulled out of thin air ?

 

[UKBengali]

All I am asking for is a primary source for the figures being quoted here.

You guys claim that Bengal alone produced 12% of entire world's GDP in the pre-colonial India. Official documents from the early seventeenth century tell us otherwise.

All I want to confirm is whether you guys have any primary source to backup those figures, or are those numbers (just like the 3 million figure) just pulled out of thin air ?

Please stop embarrassing yourself as this is a known fact. It may be hard to accept but the only thing Pakistan and BD has in common is both being in S Asia and Muslim countries. The potential of each counytry is VASTLY different and we are already seeing this as BD has been independent for just over 50 years. In as little as a decade from now the two countries will have a wide gulf in living standards and it will be easy to see the difference just by looking at pictures of the two countries cities and infrastructure.

Mughal Empire Dominated the World

The richest empire of 17th century

short-history.com

Half of the manufacturing power of the Mughal Empire came from the province of Bengal Subah. The province encompassed much of modern Bangladesh and the Indian state of West Bengal and it accounted for 12% of the world’s GDP. Today’s equivalent would be the combined GDPs of Italy, the UK, France, Brazil, and Canada.

Contemporary scholars described the province as a “Paradise of nations”. The people of Bengal Subah had the world’s highest living standards and wages.

The living standards in the Bengal Subah were better than those in Great Britain, which had the highest living standards in Europe.

The plunder of Bengal Subah contributed to the Industrial Revolution in Britain during the 18th century. The money looted from the Bengal was used for industrial investments and vastly increased British wealth.

"

 

[M. Sarmad]

Please stop embarrassing yourself as this is a known fact. It may be hard to accept but the only thing Pakistan and BD has in common is both being in S Asia and Muslim countries. The potential of each counytry is VASTLY different and we are already seeing this as BD has been independent for just over 50 years. In as little as a decade from now the two countries will have a wide gulf in living standards and it will be easy to see the difference just by looking at pictures of the two countries cities and infrastructure.

Mughal Empire Dominated the World

The richest empire of 17th century

short-history.com

Half of the manufacturing power of the Mughal Empire came from the province of Bengal Subah. The province encompassed much of modern Bangladesh and the Indian state of West Bengal and it accounted for 12% of the world’s GDP. Today’s equivalent would be the combined GDPs of Italy, the UK, France, Brazil, and Canada.

Contemporary scholars described the province as a “Paradise of nations”. The people of Bengal Subah had the world’s highest living standards and wages.

The living standards in the Bengal Subah were better than those in Great Britain, which had the highest living standards in Europe.


"

Duh !!

A 2020 blog by some Peter Preskar is not a "primary" source

It's you who needs to stop embarrassing himself

If you have a primary source to backup those figures, then it can be accepted. And if you haven't, then no need to comment further. You may keep believing in whatever myths you like (just like those 3 million killed) but don't expect others to take you seriously

 

[UKBengali]

Duh !!

A 2020 blog by some Peter Preskar is not a "primary" source

It's you who needs to stop embarrassing himself

If you have a primary source to backup those figures, then it can be accepted. And if you haven't, then no need to comment further. You may keep believing in whatever myths you like (just like those 3 million killed) but don't expect others to take you seriously

You just cannot accept it.

Bengal had the world's largest garment industry and had the best ship technology in the world while Pakistan was an agricultural backwater.

As we talk here BD per capita nominal is growing at 6% while Pakistan is at 0% with BD being at 2,700 US dollars and Pakistan at 1,700. This is the story of these two countries with completely different economic trajectories after independence 51 years and 76 years respectively.

I feel sorry for you as you were brought up thinking you were equivalent to BD'shis or maybe even superior but hard reality is hitting you on the face. Accept your potential and relative difference to BD as without this your frustration will keep growing.

 

[Chute]

This is an entirely useless rabbit hole of a conversation to get into.

Mali had an awesome reign during the Timbuktu era.

Whichever part of Europe was living in caves or depopulated entirely by mongol invasions.

Its all baked in forever and forever.

Exceptionalism fantasy transmits unadulterated over the eons when you simply have the combo of ego and void.

I wonder what conversation will be happening 6 pages later lol. I'm sure it will be something unseen before and eminently productive.

 

[bluesky]

Akbar couldn't conquer entire Bengal, he only held Bihar, Jharkhand and parts of western Bengal. All the main industries of Bengal (muslin, shipbuilding) were located in eastern Bengal which was still ruled by a confederacy of local zamindars known as Baro Bhuiyan led by Isa Khan and his son Musa Khan. It was only during Jahangir's reign that Bengal came under Mughal rule entirely, so Ain-i-Akbar's estimation doesn't show entire picture of Bengal's economy. The rise and decline of Mughal Empire also coincided with the integration and independence of Bengal which itself shows the contribution of Bengal's economy.

- The part in bold coincides with the historical chronicles.

- And the other part related to the decline of the Mughal Empire mostly was due to the rise of the Maratha power and the invasion of Delhi by Ahmed Shah Abdali.

- Maratha's power was almost annihilated but Abdali decided to go back to the west of Khaibar Pass. And this 1761 war known as the 3rd Battle of Panipath crippled the authority of the Mughal power.

- East India Company has already captured Bengal by that time.

 

[UKBengali]

Mali had an awesome reign during the Timbuktu era.

We are not talking about the modern world(18th century onwards) where proto-industrial revolution started to happen and so not comparable with Mali example.

BD is one of the few places outside Europe where this happened.

Ancient Egypt was the greatest civilisation of its time but this is nothing to do with current Egyptian potential in the modern world which cannot develop.

Some Pakistanis are trying to compare their potential to that of BD and both historical evidence and what is happening now says othewise. It is one of false pride as they probably know deep down this is not the case.

If you want an idea of where you are now and can go in the future, study RELEVANT history.

 

[bluesky]

Well, it took Abul Fazal 13 years to compile Ain-i-Akbari and he began his work in 1590. So, Ain-i-Akbari is the official record of early seventeenth century Mughal Empire. Mughals lost control of Bengal in the early 18th century. Until and unless you have some official records/documents to backup your claim that Bengal, 3 times poorer than Punjab in the early seventeenth century Mughal empire, went on to become the richest province producing as much as 50% of entire GDP of the Mughal Empire (and upto 12% of the entire world) in just less than 50 years, your claim cannot be accepted.

As for international trade, unlike modern times, it constituted a very small part of the GDP back in the seventeenth century. So, please tell us, what, according to you, made Bengal so rich in just 50 years ?

And please provide the original/primary source for the ridiculous numbers you are quoting here



We, unlike you, are an independent nation who refuse to accept Indian/Hindu hegemony. No comparison

Bengal was certainly a part of the Mughal empire until the war of 1757. Delhi was unable to force anything on Murshidabad. But it was already the same with all other Provincial Capitals. It was a kind of loose Empire as it happens before its decline.

Murshidabad regularly sent revenues to Delhi although most of our ignorant brats in the PDF would claim Bengal was independent. It was so in a sense that the throne was inherited by a descendant of the sitting Nawab.

Note also that the title of the throne was Nawab, and to become independent the title should have been Sultan. This was not the case.

 

[El Sidd]

Why don't Bangladesh just cut off all diplomatic relations with Pakistan lest an apology from Pakistan?

Why don't Pakistan just try and get her territories back?

 

[Paji]

I am surprised at how tolerant Bangladeshis are towards Pakistan. The Awami League had a clear majority and Mujib should have ruled as Prime Minister of a united Pakistan and put the Punjabi elite in its place. Instead a few generals and vaderas from West Pakistan waged war on the majority community in Pakistan. Anyway, it worked out well for Bangladesh. East Pakistan used to be one of the most backward and poorest regions in the world and now it is one of the richer countries in South Asia whereas Pakistan is one of the poorest and keeps teethering from one crisis to another.

The day might soon come when Pakistani leaders start going to Dhaka begging for aid just like they go to Washington, Riyadh and Beijing.

 

[UKBengali]

I am surprised at how tolerant Bangladeshis are towards Pakistan. The Awami League had a clear majority and Mujib should have ruled as Prime Minister of a united Pakistan and put the Punjabi elite in its place. Instead a few generals and vaderas from West Pakistan waged war on the majority community in Pakistan. Anyway, it worked out well for Bangladesh. East Pakistan used to be one of the most backward and poorest regions in the world and now it is one of the richer countries in South Asia whereas Pakistan is one of the poorest and keeps teethering from one crisis to another.

The day might soon come when Pakistani leaders start going to Dhaka begging for aid just like they go to Washington, Riyadh and Beijing.

In the end it worked out as Pakistan would have been a drag on BD as a forever impoverished part, that BD would need to send billions over every year to keep afloat.

Not many people in BD dislike Pakistan or Pakistanis but they need to apologise for 1971 if they want normalised relations.

Don’t think that Pakistan needs to ever ask BD for aid but they could get great economic benefits by free access to BD’s consumer market and FDI from BD’s companies as they will soon invest substantial amounts overseas.

 

[undercover JIX]

Reading posts here makes me believe that, Bangladesh was an ancient Supa Powa even before Vedic times.

Indians and Begalis should decide between themselves, who invented what and which was the biggest supa power, and who stole technological ancient secrets from whom.

Gareeb Pakistanis should calm down, let the two delusional supa powas settle.

 

[surmabhopali]

Why don't Bangladesh just cut off all diplomatic relations with Pakistan lest an apology from Pakistan?

Why don't Pakistan just try and get her territories

Good idea , why dont you start now ?