Pakistani flag and its heretic(pagan) roots

[.]

This has always crossed my mind and yet each time even knowing the historical truth and attribution of the current flag after reading though different historical expositions I.E crescent and moon in its current state I've never given the serious consideration it deserved until I came across more detailed historical studies across the internet mainly quora of a brilliant summarising post of a Indian Muslim and took the time today to open a thread on such a magnanimous and shameful twist of history in its entirety.
The objective of this thread is to identify and reach consensus make awareness of the more detailed historical truth and reach qualitative responses.

PRE-ISLAMIC SYMBOL
The use of the crescent moon and star as symbols actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to confirm ,but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of the sun, moon and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.

OTTOMAN EMPIRE
It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453 CE, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and are still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.

For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people's minds with the faith of Islam as a whole. The heritage of the symbols, however, really is based on links to the Ottoman empire, not the faith of Islam itself.

ACCEPTED SYMBOL OF ISLAM?
Based on this history, many Muslims reject the use of the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many Muslims refuse to accept what they see as essentially an ancient pagan icon.

It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims. Others prefer to use the Ka'aba , Arabic calligraphy writing, or a simple mosque icon as symbols of the faith.

What remains a flag to represent the county ?
My favourite flag would be the current flag of GOP , it would represent Pakistan in its entirety (ModernIslamic liberal one party socialist state) from its current state of capitalism , feudalism and artificial democracy harbouring thousand of corrupt political parties in the broken political system of today.
It would represent what our hard working bureaucrats who in my opinion is the most educated class of Pakistanis (CSS officers) stand for , besides many of them including my father having retired to equivalent ranks of major generals or lieutenant generals (BPS-21/22) continue to lead happy lives and never say we have less even when they don't have the riches as same as our generals.
Our country is run in entirety by bureaucrats (national institutes)not foot soldiers and Armchair Generals and many of them majority of whom I met are the most honest straight forward people I know who alongside their families sacrifice enormously just like the army families but the best part is never complain for the sake of not causing social disorder and don't even talk about it.
Reason why I wrote above paragraph is because the below flag usually represents the Pakistani Government and its institutions mainly the bureaucracy,

Few modifications to this by removing the cresant symbol and adding a white stripe to symbolise our minorities would look beautiful, removing the symbols in the shield and adding white alongside greenish gold colour would symbolise modernity ,Islamic liberalism and wreath representing a welfare state thus completing the ideological foundations of the state and nation.

If anyone wishes to dig the more historically accurate trail may read another thread from 2009 which is brilliantly detailed.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/crescent-moon-symbol-of-islam.21755/

 

[.]

@Mentee @Djinn take a read guys and have ur say .

 

[livingdead]

symbols and icons are very part of human civilization, i dont think its easy to remove it.. I have seem pics of mecca, and the number 787 in picture frames in many indian households.. is not the islamic idea mainly against worshiping idols/symbols ?

 

[StraightShooter]

This has always crossed my mind and yet each time even knowing the historical truth and attribution of the current flag after reading though different historical expositions I.E crescent and moon in its current state I've never given the serious consideration it deserved until I came across more detailed historical studies across the internet mainly quora of a brilliant summarising post of a Indian Muslim and took the time today to open a thread on such a magnanimous and shameful twist of history in its entirety.
The objective of this thread is to identify and reach consensus make awareness of the more detailed historical truth and read qualitative responses of more knowledgeable users on this matter.
Real nations are not those who never make mistakes but those who're willing to learn from the past and make the correct judgements , in issues of national identity one could hope to be part of one that is accurate and truly represents the people of nations therein but as Mostly the case with our nation we fall for what others have thought us and came to hear.

Firstly every Muslim knows that Islam has no symbol and neither from the time of Muhammad(PBUH) to the time after him was a symbol or flag used to represent Islam in the present form of what is Today the flag of some Muslim nations.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-Pakis.../answer/Hassan-Sahl?share=8eb4e780&srid=hTxXT

The “religious Islamic sign” that you claim has nothing “Islamic” about it.Looking back at history,especially Islamic history ,one can see that Islam had taken,in the past, a very strict approach to any form of imagery or symbolism creeping in and blemishing the universal nature of Islam. For those well versed in iconography and symbolism ,the crescent symbol has been used since time immemorial,even being depicted for the Virgin Mary .As a result that symbol has become very nuanced,over time.

In the picture below, do you think the crescent symbol and star represents Islam? Wrong!


This,dear reader ,represents the Stele Of Ur Namu.

The Islamic connection to this device is ..well, close to zilch.

The crescent moon symbolises the pagan god Sin, along with a star representing Shamash, the sun god. Later the moon became a female deity, typified by the goddess Artemis and her many counterparts, including Diana, who was celebrated as the moon-goddess in Roman times and depicted with a crescent on her brow.

So what is seen as a muslim symbol in the present times was Pagan.

I don’t mean to dampen the spirits of my fellow Pakistanis (Or Tunisians,Or Turks,for that matter) ..but to say proudly say this symbol represents Islam makes me cringe.

So how did this symbol came to be associated with Islamic nations?

Well .. Seljuk Turks . Blame them. They dominated Anatolia in the 12th century.After the Conquests of Ottoman Turks and Islamic Conquest, the muslim rulers (sadly) took a fancy to the Crescent-Star Symbol (Who,also, at a later stage stopped addressing their rulers as caliphs-The Representatives Of Allah On Earth , favouring the more ‘royal’ and materialistic “Sultan” ) .So here we have the principal Islamic nation (Filled with Dynastic rule ,and Nepotism at the highest level of governance ,and erosion of Islamic values,allying with Nazi Germany..the list goes on ) with their flags represented by the pagan Seljuk symbol of Crescent and Star.

It’s sad that as a religion with very strict views on aniconism ,something that the sahabahs have fought very hard to ensure it stays that way , a pagan symbol has come to represent the religion that they fought for. The effects of this symbolism is left for all of us to be seen ,and no wonder. Many of those who have no idea of Islam have come to associate a certain Moon God with Islam,as well as numerous numbers like 786, to be divine numbers.

The Sultan held the title of Caliph until 1922,until the fall of the Empire. In a way,Ottoman Empire was the one true Islamic Caliphate,and when we connect the dots ,the empathy those countries (who have this symbol in their flags) for this fallen empire is understandable.

PRE-ISLAMIC SYMBOL
The use of the crescent moon and star as symbols actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to confirm ,but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of the sun, moon and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.

OTTOMAN EMPIRE
It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453 CE, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and are still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.

For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people's minds with the faith of Islam as a whole. The heritage of the symbols, however, really is based on links to the Ottoman empire, not the faith of Islam itself.

ACCEPTED SYMBOL OF ISLAM?
Based on this history, many Muslims reject the use of the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many Muslims refuse to accept what they see as essentially an ancient pagan icon.

It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims. Others prefer to use the Ka'aba , Arabic calligraphy writing, or a simple mosque icon as symbols of the faith.

What remains a flag to represent the county ?
My favourite flag would be the current flag of GOP , it would represent Pakistan in its entirety (ModernIslamic liberal one party socialist state) from its current state of capitalism , feudalism and artificial democracy harbouring thousand of corrupt political parties in the broken political system of today.
It would represent what our hard working bureaucrats who in my opinion is the most educated class of Pakistanis (CSS officers) stand for , besides many of them including my father having retired to equivalent ranks of major generals or lieutenant generals (BPS-21/22) continue to lead happy lives and never say we have less even when they don't have the riches as same as our generals.
Our country is run in entirety by bureaucrats (national institutes)not foot soldiers and Armchair Generals and many of them majority of whom I met are the most honest straight forward people I know who alongside their families sacrifice enormously just like the army families but the best part is never complain for the sake of not causing social disorder and don't even talk about it.
Reason why I wrote above paragraph is because the below flag usually represents the Pakistani Government and its institutions mainly the bureaucracy,

Few modifications to this by removing the cresant symbol and adding a white stripe to symbolise our minorities would look beautiful, removing the symbols in the shield and adding white alongside greenish gold colour would symbolise modernity ,Islamic liberalism and wreath representing a welfare state thus completing the ideological foundations of the state and nation.

If anyone wishes to dig the more historically accurate trail may read another thread from 2009 which is brilliantly detailed.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/crescent-moon-symbol-of-islam.21755/

Check this

 

[Mentee]

@Mentee @Djinn take a read guys and have ur say .

northy bro , the Satanists revere a goat head creature , Baphomet to be precise . So , does this mean we stop raising and eating goats ? The earths and the heavens are Almighty's creations so none have any copyrights sort of claims on any of these

 

[El Sidd]

It's a free mason conspiracy i tell you.

Damn I knew it. One day the wise Indian will figure it out.

Must tell Rockefeller....


®©$¥√÷°¢×}∆*¥|`,
And senddddd

 

[Morpheus]

oh noo

 

[StraightShooter]

The hidden truth of Vedic past in pre-Islamic Arabia!
May 13, 2017

Share4K
Tweet
+128
SHARES4K
Today the Arabian countries completely follow Islam religion. But one would be shocked to know the real past of the Arab. Arab civilization was once one of the richest civilizations and most progressive in the world.

But if one reads the correct history, they will know that they were practicing the vedic traditions and not Islam. But eventually the invasion of Islam slowly destroyed the civilization which lead to the destruction of a glorious era.

As we well know that Arbia was famous for horses, the horses of Arabia were being supplied to many countries since centuries. Arab was infact called the land of horses. The word Arab or Arabisthan is originally derived from the Sanskrit word Arvasthan, which means the land of horses. Arva means horse, and sthan means place. And the people who lived in the Arab were called semitic. Semitic is nothing but a Sanskrit word for Smritic. The Sanskrit word Smriti was a very common word in the Arabic language.

In ancient days, the Northern highway or the Uttarapath was the gate way and the main link to India. It was via this route that the Arabs and the middle eastern countries got connected with India and got influenced with the spiritual and traditional practice of India. Basra was the main gateway of India through which all trade exchange took place. The fact is, the sea links between India and Middles East existed 800 years before the invent of Islam. The spoken language in India then was Sanskrit. But eventually many local languages were born with Sanskrit as the base.

Arabic language also was eventually modified, but even today more than 1000 Sanskrit words exist in Arabic language.

Sanskrit Arabic English
Sagwan Saj Teakwood
Anusari Ansari Follower
Shishya Sheikh Disciple
Mrityu Mout Death
Karpur Kafur Camphor


Many types of swords also had Hindu and Sanskrit names like Handuwani, Hindi, Hinduani, Saif-ul-Hind. Mathematics was called Hindisa while Astronomical treatise Brahma-Sphuta-Siddhanta was called Sind-Hind.

The Arabs were very much influenced by India, A noted scholar W H Siddiqui writes,

There is a misconception that Arabs used the word Hindu to abuse and mock. But this is totally wrong, in fact the Arabs respected Hindus and Hinduism a lot and would call any beautiful looking girl as Hinda and Saifi Hindi.

There are evidence to show how poems were written praising the Hindus and Hinduism in Arabs. The following lines can be found in page 235 of Sair-Ul-Okul.

Kafavomal fikra min ulumin Tab asayru
Kaluwan amataul Hawa was Tajakhru
We Tajakhayroba udan Kalalwade-E Liboawa
Walukayanay jatally, hay Yauma Tab asayru
Wa Abalolha ajabu armeeman MAHADEVA
Manojail ilamuddin minhum wa sayattaru
Wa Sahabi Kay-yam feema-Kamil MINDAY Yauman
Wa Yakulum no latabahan foeennak Tawjjaru
Massayaray akhalakan hasanan Kullahum
Najumum aja- at Summa gabul HINDU

which translates as:

The man who may spend his life in sin
and irreligion or waste it in lechery and wrath
If at least he relent and return to
righteousness can he be saved?
If but once he worship Mahadeva with a pure
heart, he will attain the ultimate in spirituality.
Oh Lord Shiva exchange my entire life for but
a day’s sojourn in India where one attains salvation.
But one pilgrimage there secures for one all
merit and company of the truly great.

This poem was written in 1850 BC, that is 2300 years before the birth of Islam and Mohammed. A poem which praises the King Vikramaditya was also written by Jirrham Bintoi who had heard from his fathers and grandfathers about Vikramaditya who lived 500 years before him.

Interestingly a book called origines, by Sir W Drummond Adds mentions the worship of over 350 different types of Gods in Arab. In the page 439 of the book, it mentions the existence of these Gods in the Kaba shrine before it was destroyed by Mohammed. Here are the names of the Gods which were originally present in the kaba.

Arabic Sanskrit English
Al-Dsaizan Shani Saturn
Al –ozi or ozza Oorja Divine Energy
Al Sharak Shukra Venus
Auds Uddhav
Bag Bhagwan God
Bajar Vajra Indra’s thunder bolt
Kabar Kuber God of wealth
dar Indra King of Gods
Dua Shara Deveshwar Lord of the Gods


The Kaba before it was captured by Mohhamed was a international vedic shrine. The vedic scriptures Harihareswar Mahatmya mentions that Lord Vishnu’s footprints were consecrated in Mecca. This is confirmed by the way the Muslim call the place Haram, which is derived from Sanskrit word Hariyam which refers to Hari or Lord Vishnu.

The lines describe that the Vamana avatar of Lord Vishnu was blessed on three holy sites, Gaya, Mecca and Shukla Theertha.

The word kaba itself describes Grabha or Graha which means Sanctum. This sacred sanctum was decorated in an extremely rich and beautiful fashion. The Kaaba was astronomically oriented to face the winds. The minor axis of the rectangular base of the Kaaba was solistically aligned towards summer sunrise and winter sunset. It contained 360 statues of Vedic deities and was a shrine primarily associated with sun worship. The temple was an architectural representation of an interlocking set of theories covering virtually all creation and comprehending chemistry, physics, cosmology, meteorology and medicine. Each wall or corner of the Kaaba was associated with a specific region of the world. Thus this glorious Hindu temple was made to symbolically represent a microcosm of the universe. The Arabs would face east when praying. This representation of a microcosm demonstrated by the eight directional structure was derived from the Tantric pattern (Refer to Figure 1) of Hinduism. Right at the centre of the Kaaba was the octogonal pedestal of Bramha the creator. Today this very pedestal is called Maqam-E-Ibrahim by the Muslims (Aditi Chaturvedi).

Mohammed who was an illiterate, could not invent a new religion without a basis. So he borrowed bits and pieces from Vedic practises and modified it look exactly opposite to vedic practice and called it the right way. Vedic customs and traditions are based on scientific facts and reasoning. there is nothing in vedas which is blindly incorporated, so how can something which is done exactly opposite to scientific principles be right??

Muhammad destroyed all 360 idols, but he could not summon the courage to completely obliterate the Shivling in the Kaaba. He entered the temple and kissed the black stone. The Shivling was so sacred that the man who so detested idol- worship ended up kissing the largest idol in the Kaaba. Later his followers in a fit of piety broke the Shivling and then out of remorse repatched it together again. Today it lies broken at seven places and held together by a silver band studded with silver nails, bearing the name “Sangey Aswad” which came from the Sanskrit Ashwet meaning non-white or black stone (Aditi Chaturvedi).

He also jumbled the words Nama and Yaja, which meant to bow and worship and modified it to Namaz.

His hatred towards Hindu customs was so strong that he reversed everything that was practiced by Hindus. For example, Hindus consider East as auspicious (because the Sun rises in East)to worship, but he asked his followers to worship facing west.

Circling around the Shrine in clock wise direction is a custom and tradition in Hinduism. Mohammed who had no knowledge about this, simply asked his followers to circle the shrine 7 times in anti clock direction.

Mohammed believed the idols of Hindus always posed a great threat to his brand of religion and would reveal the original vedic traditions. So he banned idol worship and declared it as a a crime in Muslims. He did not want Hindu Gods to be projected through painting, so painting and drawing was completed banned and called anti Islamic.

Singing is the most common practice in vedic religion. Most of the Vedas are taught through oral recitation and music is an integral part of Hindus which is believed to be the language of God. For this reason music was banned by him and called anti Islamic.

The Arabic copies of Koran has the mysterious number 786 in them, Why? No Muslim scholar has been able to describe why this number has been considered holy and why was it selected. But the truth is, this number when written in Arabic forms the symbol OM, which is holy in Hinduism. Mohammed who did not understand this concept, simply declared that 786 was a holy number.

So the rise of Islam put a break to the development in Arabia. The scholars, educationalists, teachers, libraries, poets, artists, philosophers had thrived to understand and implement the great scientific knowledge behind every practice, but it was destroyed by the selfish, intolerant attitude of the Islam. The illogical teaching and practice were forcibly implemented in the countries. People were taught to loot, destroy and butcher who do not fall in the line which subsequently made people join them. The indiscriminate butchering of people sent a sense of fear and most people never opposed the brutality.

Since there was no basis for the religion to survive, the motto they followed was conversion, butcher and destroy other religions…..which is evident even today!

Source and credit: Aditi Chaturvedi, Sansrikitimag.com


http://postcard.news/hidden-truth-vedic-past-pre-islamic-arabia/

 

[El Sidd]

The hidden truth of Vedic past in pre-Islamic Arabia!
May 13, 2017

Share4K
Tweet
+128
SHARES4K
Today the Arabian countries completely follow Islam religion. But one would be shocked to know the real past of the Arab. Arab civilization was once one of the richest civilizations and most progressive in the world.

But if one reads the correct history, they will know that they were practicing the vedic traditions and not Islam. But eventually the invasion of Islam slowly destroyed the civilization which lead to the destruction of a glorious era.

As we well know that Arbia was famous for horses, the horses of Arabia were being supplied to many countries since centuries. Arab was infact called the land of horses. The word Arab or Arabisthan is originally derived from the Sanskrit word Arvasthan, which means the land of horses. Arva means horse, and sthan means place. And the people who lived in the Arab were called semitic. Semitic is nothing but a Sanskrit word for Smritic. The Sanskrit word Smriti was a very common word in the Arabic language.

In ancient days, the Northern highway or the Uttarapath was the gate way and the main link to India. It was via this route that the Arabs and the middle eastern countries got connected with India and got influenced with the spiritual and traditional practice of India. Basra was the main gateway of India through which all trade exchange took place. The fact is, the sea links between India and Middles East existed 800 years before the invent of Islam. The spoken language in India then was Sanskrit. But eventually many local languages were born with Sanskrit as the base.

Arabic language also was eventually modified, but even today more than 1000 Sanskrit words exist in Arabic language.

Sanskrit Arabic English
Sagwan Saj Teakwood
Anusari Ansari Follower
Shishya Sheikh Disciple
Mrityu Mout Death
Karpur Kafur Camphor


Many types of swords also had Hindu and Sanskrit names like Handuwani, Hindi, Hinduani, Saif-ul-Hind. Mathematics was called Hindisa while Astronomical treatise Brahma-Sphuta-Siddhanta was called Sind-Hind.

The Arabs were very much influenced by India, A noted scholar W H Siddiqui writes,

There is a misconception that Arabs used the word Hindu to abuse and mock. But this is totally wrong, in fact the Arabs respected Hindus and Hinduism a lot and would call any beautiful looking girl as Hinda and Saifi Hindi.

There are evidence to show how poems were written praising the Hindus and Hinduism in Arabs. The following lines can be found in page 235 of Sair-Ul-Okul.

Kafavomal fikra min ulumin Tab asayru
Kaluwan amataul Hawa was Tajakhru
We Tajakhayroba udan Kalalwade-E Liboawa
Walukayanay jatally, hay Yauma Tab asayru
Wa Abalolha ajabu armeeman MAHADEVA
Manojail ilamuddin minhum wa sayattaru
Wa Sahabi Kay-yam feema-Kamil MINDAY Yauman
Wa Yakulum no latabahan foeennak Tawjjaru
Massayaray akhalakan hasanan Kullahum
Najumum aja- at Summa gabul HINDU

which translates as:

The man who may spend his life in sin
and irreligion or waste it in lechery and wrath
If at least he relent and return to
righteousness can he be saved?
If but once he worship Mahadeva with a pure
heart, he will attain the ultimate in spirituality.
Oh Lord Shiva exchange my entire life for but
a day’s sojourn in India where one attains salvation.
But one pilgrimage there secures for one all
merit and company of the truly great.

This poem was written in 1850 BC, that is 2300 years before the birth of Islam and Mohammed. A poem which praises the King Vikramaditya was also written by Jirrham Bintoi who had heard from his fathers and grandfathers about Vikramaditya who lived 500 years before him.

View attachment 419763

Interestingly a book called origines, by Sir W Drummond Adds mentions the worship of over 350 different types of Gods in Arab. In the page 439 of the book, it mentions the existence of these Gods in the Kaba shrine before it was destroyed by Mohammed. Here are the names of the Gods which were originally present in the kaba.

Arabic Sanskrit English
Al-Dsaizan Shani Saturn
Al –ozi or ozza Oorja Divine Energy
Al Sharak Shukra Venus
Auds Uddhav
Bag Bhagwan God
Bajar Vajra Indra’s thunder bolt
Kabar Kuber God of wealth
dar Indra King of Gods
Dua Shara Deveshwar Lord of the Gods


The Kaba before it was captured by Mohhamed was a international vedic shrine. The vedic scriptures Harihareswar Mahatmya mentions that Lord Vishnu’s footprints were consecrated in Mecca. This is confirmed by the way the Muslim call the place Haram, which is derived from Sanskrit word Hariyam which refers to Hari or Lord Vishnu.

View attachment 419764

The lines describe that the Vamana avatar of Lord Vishnu was blessed on three holy sites, Gaya, Mecca and Shukla Theertha.

The word kaba itself describes Grabha or Graha which means Sanctum. This sacred sanctum was decorated in an extremely rich and beautiful fashion. The Kaaba was astronomically oriented to face the winds. The minor axis of the rectangular base of the Kaaba was solistically aligned towards summer sunrise and winter sunset. It contained 360 statues of Vedic deities and was a shrine primarily associated with sun worship. The temple was an architectural representation of an interlocking set of theories covering virtually all creation and comprehending chemistry, physics, cosmology, meteorology and medicine. Each wall or corner of the Kaaba was associated with a specific region of the world. Thus this glorious Hindu temple was made to symbolically represent a microcosm of the universe. The Arabs would face east when praying. This representation of a microcosm demonstrated by the eight directional structure was derived from the Tantric pattern (Refer to Figure 1) of Hinduism. Right at the centre of the Kaaba was the octogonal pedestal of Bramha the creator. Today this very pedestal is called Maqam-E-Ibrahim by the Muslims (Aditi Chaturvedi).

Mohammed who was an illiterate, could not invent a new religion without a basis. So he borrowed bits and pieces from Vedic practises and modified it look exactly opposite to vedic practice and called it the right way. Vedic customs and traditions are based on scientific facts and reasoning. there is nothing in vedas which is blindly incorporated, so how can something which is done exactly opposite to scientific principles be right??

Muhammad destroyed all 360 idols, but he could not summon the courage to completely obliterate the Shivling in the Kaaba. He entered the temple and kissed the black stone. The Shivling was so sacred that the man who so detested idol- worship ended up kissing the largest idol in the Kaaba. Later his followers in a fit of piety broke the Shivling and then out of remorse repatched it together again. Today it lies broken at seven places and held together by a silver band studded with silver nails, bearing the name “Sangey Aswad” which came from the Sanskrit Ashwet meaning non-white or black stone (Aditi Chaturvedi).

He also jumbled the words Nama and Yaja, which meant to bow and worship and modified it to Namaz.

His hatred towards Hindu customs was so strong that he reversed everything that was practiced by Hindus. For example, Hindus consider East as auspicious (because the Sun rises in East)to worship, but he asked his followers to worship facing west.

Circling around the Shrine in clock wise direction is a custom and tradition in Hinduism. Mohammed who had no knowledge about this, simply asked his followers to circle the shrine 7 times in anti clock direction.

Mohammed believed the idols of Hindus always posed a great threat to his brand of religion and would reveal the original vedic traditions. So he banned idol worship and declared it as a a crime in Muslims. He did not want Hindu Gods to be projected through painting, so painting and drawing was completed banned and called anti Islamic.

Singing is the most common practice in vedic religion. Most of the Vedas are taught through oral recitation and music is an integral part of Hindus which is believed to be the language of God. For this reason music was banned by him and called anti Islamic.

The Arabic copies of Koran has the mysterious number 786 in them, Why? No Muslim scholar has been able to describe why this number has been considered holy and why was it selected. But the truth is, this number when written in Arabic forms the symbol OM, which is holy in Hinduism. Mohammed who did not understand this concept, simply declared that 786 was a holy number.

So the rise of Islam put a break to the development in Arabia. The scholars, educationalists, teachers, libraries, poets, artists, philosophers had thrived to understand and implement the great scientific knowledge behind every practice, but it was destroyed by the selfish, intolerant attitude of the Islam. The illogical teaching and practice were forcibly implemented in the countries. People were taught to loot, destroy and butcher who do not fall in the line which subsequently made people join them. The indiscriminate butchering of people sent a sense of fear and most people never opposed the brutality.

Since there was no basis for the religion to survive, the motto they followed was conversion, butcher and destroy other religions…..which is evident even today!

Source and credit: Aditi Chaturvedi, Sansrikitimag.com


http://postcard.news/hidden-truth-vedic-past-pre-islamic-arabia/

Are you one of those ghazwa recruiter?

 

[saiyan0321]

Nobody is worshipping the moon here but what is the big deal here? So what if Muslim empires and Muslim countries use the moon. Jeez. Its a symbol. Nothing more. Nothing less. Should we stop using fire just bcz the Zoroastrians worshipped fire and eternal fire.

Oh wait. The ISI mark is a maarkhoor which looks like a goat which is worshipped satanist who worship it so let's change that. In fact why have a national anthem when clearly music is haraam and poetry as well. Why use a pagan language like farsi?

Seriously who comes up with this rubbish.

And now a hinduvta is bringing mecca temple theory.

Well I guess in a place with knowledge rubbish flows as well.

 

[.]

symbols and icons are very part of human civilization, i dont think its easy to remove it.. I have seem pics of mecca, and the number 787 in picture frames in many indian households.. is not the islamic idea mainly against worshiping idols/symbols ?

Why not easy how many countries throughout history have changed flags even early Muslim conquests switched between white green and black.
We need to get out of our pothole mentality sadly to say.

northy bro , the Satanists revere a goat head creature , Baphomet to be precise . So , does this mean we stop raising and eating goats ? The earths and the heavens are Almighty's creations so none have any copyrights sort of claims on any of these

I myself used to say exactly the same thing as ui but in Pakistans case the Goormemt has always forgotten the historically correct trail and have associate an Islamic icon to the cresant and flag , now don't say we've never been confused as a nation on this.
If what you and I think is right then government should simply announce " it symbolises the heavens and Allahs creations in the universes" but in which case we're ignoring the historical origins of these symbols.
The whole idea of our country stems from religion which denounces symbolism bro

Damn I knew it. One day the wise Indian will figure it out.

you may read the thread at the link in the end in post #1 if you don't agree with the Indian.
Godspeed

 

[StraightShooter]

Are you one of those ghazwa recruiter?

There is no evidence to show that Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) hated Vedic religions but similarities between Islam and Vedic religions are unmissable.

 

[The Accountant]

This has always crossed my mind and yet each time even knowing the historical truth and attribution of the current flag after reading though different historical expositions I.E crescent and moon in its current state I've never given the serious consideration it deserved until I came across more detailed historical studies across the internet mainly quora of a brilliant summarising post of a Indian Muslim and took the time today to open a thread on such a magnanimous and shameful twist of history in its entirety.
The objective of this thread is to identify and reach consensus make awareness of the more detailed historical truth and read qualitative responses of more knowledgeable users on this matter.
Real nations are not those who never make mistakes but those who're willing to learn from the past and make the correct judgements , in issues of national identity one could hope to be part of one that is accurate and truly represents the people of nations therein but as Mostly the case with our nation we fall for what others have thought us and came to hear.

Firstly every Muslim knows that Islam has no symbol and neither from the time of Muhammad(PBUH) to the time after him was a symbol or flag used to represent Islam in the present form of what is Today the flag of some Muslim nations.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-Pakis.../answer/Hassan-Sahl?share=8eb4e780&srid=hTxXT

The “religious Islamic sign” that you claim has nothing “Islamic” about it.Looking back at history,especially Islamic history ,one can see that Islam had taken,in the past, a very strict approach to any form of imagery or symbolism creeping in and blemishing the universal nature of Islam. For those well versed in iconography and symbolism ,the crescent symbol has been used since time immemorial,even being depicted for the Virgin Mary .As a result that symbol has become very nuanced,over time.

In the picture below, do you think the crescent symbol and star represents Islam? Wrong!


This,dear reader ,represents the Stele Of Ur Namu.

The Islamic connection to this device is ..well, close to zilch.

The crescent moon symbolises the pagan god Sin, along with a star representing Shamash, the sun god. Later the moon became a female deity, typified by the goddess Artemis and her many counterparts, including Diana, who was celebrated as the moon-goddess in Roman times and depicted with a crescent on her brow.

So what is seen as a muslim symbol in the present times was Pagan.

I don’t mean to dampen the spirits of my fellow Pakistanis (Or Tunisians,Or Turks,for that matter) ..but to say proudly say this symbol represents Islam makes me cringe.

So how did this symbol came to be associated with Islamic nations?

Well .. Seljuk Turks . Blame them. They dominated Anatolia in the 12th century.After the Conquests of Ottoman Turks and Islamic Conquest, the muslim rulers (sadly) took a fancy to the Crescent-Star Symbol (Who,also, at a later stage stopped addressing their rulers as caliphs-The Representatives Of Allah On Earth , favouring the more ‘royal’ and materialistic “Sultan” ) .So here we have the principal Islamic nation (Filled with Dynastic rule ,and Nepotism at the highest level of governance ,and erosion of Islamic values,allying with Nazi Germany..the list goes on ) with their flags represented by the pagan Seljuk symbol of Crescent and Star.

It’s sad that as a religion with very strict views on aniconism ,something that the sahabahs have fought very hard to ensure it stays that way , a pagan symbol has come to represent the religion that they fought for. The effects of this symbolism is left for all of us to be seen ,and no wonder. Many of those who have no idea of Islam have come to associate a certain Moon God with Islam,as well as numerous numbers like 786, to be divine numbers.

The Sultan held the title of Caliph until 1922,until the fall of the Empire. In a way,Ottoman Empire was the one true Islamic Caliphate,and when we connect the dots ,the empathy those countries (who have this symbol in their flags) for this fallen empire is understandable.

PRE-ISLAMIC SYMBOL
The use of the crescent moon and star as symbols actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to confirm ,but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of the sun, moon and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.

OTTOMAN EMPIRE
It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453 CE, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and are still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.

For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people's minds with the faith of Islam as a whole. The heritage of the symbols, however, really is based on links to the Ottoman empire, not the faith of Islam itself.

ACCEPTED SYMBOL OF ISLAM?
Based on this history, many Muslims reject the use of the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many Muslims refuse to accept what they see as essentially an ancient pagan icon.

It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims. Others prefer to use the Ka'aba , Arabic calligraphy writing, or a simple mosque icon as symbols of the faith.

What remains a flag to represent the county ?
My favourite flag would be the current flag of GOP , it would represent Pakistan in its entirety (ModernIslamic liberal one party socialist state) from its current state of capitalism , feudalism and artificial democracy harbouring thousand of corrupt political parties in the broken political system of today.
It would represent what our hard working bureaucrats who in my opinion is the most educated class of Pakistanis (CSS officers) stand for , besides many of them including my father having retired to equivalent ranks of major generals or lieutenant generals (BPS-21/22) continue to lead happy lives and never say we have less even when they don't have the riches as same as our generals.
Our country is run in entirety by bureaucrats (national institutes)not foot soldiers and Armchair Generals and many of them majority of whom I met are the most honest straight forward people I know who alongside their families sacrifice enormously just like the army families but the best part is never complain for the sake of not causing social disorder and don't even talk about it.
Reason why I wrote above paragraph is because the below flag usually represents the Pakistani Government and its institutions mainly the bureaucracy,

Few modifications to this by removing the cresant symbol and adding a white stripe to symbolise our minorities would look beautiful, removing the symbols in the shield and adding white alongside greenish gold colour would symbolise modernity ,Islamic liberalism and wreath representing a welfare state thus completing the ideological foundations of the state and nation.

If anyone wishes to dig the more historically accurate trail may read another thread from 2009 which is brilliantly detailed.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/crescent-moon-symbol-of-islam.21755/

Man you are overthinking ... we have no importance of moon and star in our country ... its just a symbol just like a name ... so in future if sombody relates our name with the name of some ancient goddess then will you change the name too ? So the crux of the matter is "your acts are dependant on your intentions" so here intention is to show our love of islam and in current culture islam is represented by moon and star then there is no harm is using that till you consider no more than a symbol without any meaning ...

Regarding second part of your post about burecrates,,, it was laughable ... i am sorry to hurt you feelings but it is just like the thinking of generals BLOODY CIVILIANS and burecreats are like BLOODY COMMON PEOPLE... i would like to suggest you dont be a well's frog and kindly visit some big professional commercial and scientific organizations and you will amazed to see that where the world is going and the pace of work ... the working style of so called burecreates is still a century old and you are calling them the most educated class ... sorry to say but the are one of the prime contributor is slow progress of Pakistan ... they do nothing other than leg pulling, dirty politics and refernces ...

Only handful are competent and honest majority are disaster ...

 

[livingdead]

Why not easy how many countries throughout history have changed flags even early Muslim conquests switched between white green and black.
We need to get out of our pothole mentality sadly to say.



I myself used to say exactly the same thing as ui but in Pakistans case the Goormemt has always forgotten the historically correct trail and have associate an Islamic icon to the cresant and flag , now don't say we've never been confused as a nation on this.
If what you and I think is right then government should simply announce " it symbolises the heavens and Allahs creations in the universes" but in which case we're ignoring the historical origins of these symbols.
The whole idea of our country stems from religion which denounces symbolism bro


you may read the thread at the link in the end in post #1 if you don't agree with the Indian.
Godspeed

my point is not about this specific symbol, but that humans are like that... in general, we like symbols.
what do you want it to be replaced with? sword of tipu sultan will be epic.

 

[El Sidd]

Why not easy how many countries throughout history have changed flags even early Muslim conquests switched between white green and black.
We need to get out of our pothole mentality sadly to say.



I myself used to say exactly the same thing as ui but in Pakistans case the Goormemt has always forgotten the historically correct trail and have associate an Islamic icon to the cresant and flag , now don't say we've never been confused as a nation on this.
If what you and I think is right then government should simply announce " it symbolises the heavens and Allahs creations in the universes" but in which case we're ignoring the historical origins of these symbols.
The whole idea of our country stems from religion which denounces symbolism bro


you may read the thread at the link in the end in post #1 if you don't agree with the Indian.
Godspeed

Dude that's logical.

Makkah lies in middle of all great civilisation be it Euphrates or indus or the nile or the Yangtze.

But these are just symbols of the past left as a witness to us.

What is there to be achieved with this?

Is paganism still an issue to discuss?

Nobody is willing to go back. No greater India no greater Israel.

Go sit down and listen to the local news.