Pakistani daily concerned over India's hiked defence budget

[Baby Leone]

Obviously every peaceful nation will be concerned over it. Its like there is a dog at ur doorstep and ready to bite u at any given chance. Definitely u will be concerned abt it.

 

[Zhukov]

Again, abject ignorance about modern warfare leading to bold, sweeping statements. You are hooked on numbers, without attempting to understand how those numbers are intended to be employed by both sides. I do not wish to write a long essay on this topic so will provide just a few points:

The IA does not intend to fight a broad front offensive, i.e. 1 brigade v/s 1 brigade or 1 Division v/s 1 Division. By virtue of being the attacker, the IA can and will choose its area of offensives and has thus the flexibility of imposing a localized superiority of anywhere from 3:1 to 5-6:1.

Now, the bluster of CSD or Proactive defense doctrine apart, it essentially entails a highly mobile warfare led by armored and mechanized/motorized formations attacking vulnerable/unexpected positions and exploiting any breakthrough by rapid infiltration of supporting forces. For this the IA has 3 strike corps (6 armored and mechanized divisions) and 8 armored groups. Do note that each of the armored groups could have as much as 36 Attack helis i.e. nearly equal to the entire Pakistani AH1 fleet.

In short the IA has 14 attack assets (6+8). In comparison the PA has 2 armored divisions and 2 mechanized divisions (motorized divisions by today's standards), i.e. a total of 4 attack/counterattack assets. Keeping 4 attack assets for holding your 4 strike divisions, you are now looking at 10 attack assets available to the IA to cut into Pakistan for which PA has no solution. by statistics it's a 3.5:1 advantage, but in reality it becomes a 10:0 advantage in favor of IA.

So do take the supposed numerical closeness with a truck load of salt. I could provide more, but am too lazy.



As I said in my previous post, you're all about numbers. Well whatever pleases you.

lolz, you are simply assuming 2 things
1-any movement by indian army will go undetected by Pakistan and you can project any force proportion any where you want while Pakistan army will stay static and docile.
2-Pakistan will not use any offensive defence and will let indian army do all the offence while sitting duck.

Ok whatever please you brother. I am done here
India have 100:1 numerical superiority and 1000 years ahead in stretegic warfare from Pakistan. Plus we have no Pre Emptive Intelligence assets to detect anything what india plans for a conventionao strike. Happy?
Cheers

 

[RayOfLight]

For Pakistan its called concern, if we do then its called "crying".. lol...

 

[Zhukov]

As I said in my previous post, you're all about numbers. Well whatever pleases you.

So atleast i have justified my self in that numerical portion. thanks

 

[Didact]

lolz, you are simply assuming 2 things
1-any movement by indian army will go undetected by Pakistan and you can project any force proportion any where you want while Pakistan army will stay static and docile.
2-Pakistan will not use any offensive defence and will let indian army do all the offence while sitting duck.

Ok whatever please you brother. I am done here
India have 100:1 numerical superiority and 1000 years ahead in stretegic warfare from Pakistan. Plus we have no Pre Emptive Intelligence assets to detect anything what india plans for a conventionao strike. Happy?
Cheers

1. I am not assuming anything or for that matter pre-empting the flow of battle. I'm only stating the comparison of comparable formations. PA is free to move whatever it pleases into the area. But just a hint of caution: It is notoriously difficult to counter a mobile force unless you know where it intends to strike.

2. Sure Pakistan may launch a pre-emptive attack or offensive defense, I never assumed they couldn't. As I said before I am only stating the comparison of comparable mobile formations.

You can insert a whole host of other parameters, just like I can. This is why I didn't attempt to detail my response. It will take an essay or two.

 

[alpha q]

WTH is wrong with you guys?
what kind of banana analyst will call the sector limited kargil conflict as war.
And we have changed our doctrine from engaing into an arms race to containment.
But if some one still want to persist that India is capable to conventionally overpower Pakistan then such Warmoungerers are welcomed to try.And we will see how your infantry and armoured batallions will survive the salvoof battle field range BMs (and we have thousands of them) not adding the Battlefield tactical nukes(that will only annihilate aggressive forces and not cities of enemy hence no colleteral demage).
our doctrine is not offence and we by no mean want to cross indian bordersand attack them. But if indians persist they are capable then believe what makes you happy.
We have no intention to attack any neibour. But We have full right to decimate any force crossing our national borders.


For the numbers comparison of whole army is not possible in one thread. i will give a litmus test here of basic weapons.


Lets consider Tanks first that are spearhead of Ground offensive in conventional warfare enviornment.
1000 T90s
2400T72 and some
700 T55

In total 4100 Tanks in there armoured force and thats all
and you assume you can overpower Pakistan with this force,Even if all of the armour is pushed into Pakistan(That is ofcource not possible)

Against Pakistan Armoured force of
500 Alkhalid
400 T80UD
1200 Alzarar
300 T85 II
400 T69
Thats 2800 tanks in total all capable of Firing Depleted uranium Rounds and Baktar shikan ATGMs ( not counting the reserve pattons and t54/55)




Now the Gunships on both sides(not future only present)
India (cannot find a proper source here, correct me if i am wrong)
24 HAL Rudra
20 Mi 35 Hinds

and Pakistan
50 AH1 Cobra
6 Eurocopter Fennec




Infantry Force(Active, not reserve)
India 1,130,000
Pakistan 560,000




Airforce
India-(Total 762)
Air superiority(194)
194 Su30

Multirole(56)
56 Mig29

Strike(49)
49 Mirage 2000

Interceptor(254)
254 Mig21

GroundAttack(209)
79 Mig27
130 Jaguar

Supported by 194 Trainers
Hawk 78
Kiran 81
Pilatus 35

Pakistan-(Total 469)
Multirole(126)
50 JF17 thunders
76 F16 figbting Falcons

Interceptors(186)
186 F7

Strike(75)
75 Mirage 3

Ground Attack(82)
82 Mirage 5



supported by 245 Trainers
146 Mushaq and super Mushaq
60 K8 karakoram
39 Cesna Tweet


Now please live in present dear bro. Pak force is not for attacking india but can thwart any indian agression. case closed. And the way i see it, You are trying to complex a pretty simple matter to prove your case that is clearly evident otherwise.

Huh, cant read these long stories, itna toh exam mein nhi padhta... One point i noted all your chest thumping is based on nukes. Enlighten us if two forces clash on borders as Indian army has no interest in crossing loc, pak army is going to fire nuke weapons??? Its illogical as indian ministry already announced.any nuke attack big or small on cities or defence forces will be dealt with huge retalliation... Rahi baat conventional war ki, buddy u have to take a bitter pill pak cant beat india, indian economy gives india power to sustain longer war period. Pak economy would collapse supporting war even for a month.

 

[alpha q]

Obviously every peaceful nation will be concerned

peaceful nation??? Can we term.this as trolling?

 

[Storm Force]

Last Pentagon assessment of a india v pakistan wargame came to this conclusion.

Pakistan have enough war fighting stockpile to last 7-10 days
India much closer to 30 days.
Cant argue with this since the indians have 5 times the budget.

After a week of stalement Pakistanis running out of fuel & stockpile of reserves will cede territory .

At this point to save face and avoid humilation the pakistanis may resort to a nuclear strike.

In a conventional war Paskistan resources cant hold off india indefinitely. THE GAP OVERALL IS TOO BIG.

 

[Zhukov]

lolz. Indians will be indians. stay blessed

 

[alpha q]

lolz. Indians will be indians. stay blessed

Easy to run away than to counter argument...

 

[Zhukov]

Easy to run away than to counter argument...

Sir i have a very strict policy of not entertaining trolls and Chest Thumping Patriotism. I made a perfect analysis of defense budgets and strategic goals of both countries. And the Fact that an army that is double the size of the other cannot overrun the other country in an invasion.
Then some people Started trolling that proof it that India have only 1/2 numerical superiority over Pakistan. I Proved that as well. Then Those Stupid Home brew analysts Jumped in that India will beat Pakistan by its supposed Superior TACTICS
Like "Nai phir bhi Mera Pyara India Tumhey marey ga" Like praising one's Elder Brother. Lolz
This is not argument. This is Trolling. Thats why i said stay blessed. Love your country. Love your armed forces, you have every right and its a good thing not bad.
But Patriotic Propaganda either by Pakistanis or Indians is what i intentionally avoid.
What was said is said and explained. Now only Patriotic Shit left in this thread not Facts.

Conclusion of all my posts are.
India is Stronger then Pakistan and Pakistan does not have the capacity to attack India. but that being said India is not capable of Full scale invasion because it simply doesn't have the Force and Technological multiplier and superiority.
Now Keep Trolling
Stay Blessed. Me out of this Thread. Nothing against anyone

Huh, cant read these long stories, itna toh exam mein nhi padhta... One point i noted all your chest thumping is based on nukes. Enlighten us if two forces clash on borders as Indian army has no interest in crossing loc, pak army is going to fire nuke weapons??? Its illogical as indian ministry already announced.any nuke attack big or small on cities or defence forces will be dealt with huge retalliation... Rahi baat conventional war ki, buddy u have to take a bitter pill pak cant beat india, indian economy gives india power to sustain longer war period. Pak economy would collapse supporting war even for a month.

Bhai parh nai saktey to ja kar movie shovie dekho chill karo. Yahan Troll karney ki kya zarurat hai. Agar parh letey to aesi bongian na martey ke i am CHEST THUMPING and based on Nukes. And that Pakistan is supposed to BEAT India to defend it self(Firstly i dont know exactly what do you mean by BEATING, like a college fight or something) And agar sara thread parho to apko pata chal jaey ga chest thumping kon kar raha hai. Me ya apkey pyarey india Friends.
Anyways tension mat lo. Yahan koi jang nai honey wali. Lets talk about some sweet Indian Music instead of defence here cause aap parhtey to ho nai

 

[alpha q]

Sir i have a very strict policy of not entertaining trolls and Chest Thumping Patriotism. I made a perfect analysis of defense budgets and strategic goals of both countries. And the Fact that an army that is double the size of the other cannot overrun the other country in an invasion.
Then some people Started trolling that proof it that India have only 1/2 numerical superiority over Pakistan. I Proved that as well. Then Those Stupid Home brew analysts Jumped in that India will beat Pakistan by its supposed Superior TACTICS
Like "Nai phir bhi Mera Pyara India Tumhey marey ga" Like praising one's Elder Brother. Lolz
This is not argument. This is Trolling. Thats why i said stay blessed. Love your country. Love your armed forces, you have every right and its a good thing not bad.
But Patriotic Propaganda either by Pakistanis or Indians is what i intentionally avoid.
What was said is said and explained. Now only Patriotic Shit left in this thread not Facts.

Conclusion of all my posts are.
India is Stronger then Pakistan and Pakistan does not have the capacity to attack India. but that being said India is not capable of Full scale invasion because it simply doesn't have the Force and Technological multiplier and superiority.
Now Keep Trolling
Stay Blessed. Me out of this Thread. Nothing against anyone


Bhai parh nai saktey to ja kar movie shovie dekho chill karo. Yahan Troll karney ki kya zarurat hai. Agar parh letey to aesi bongian na martey ke i am CHEST THUMPING and based on Nukes. And that Pakistan is supposed to BEAT India to defend it self(Firstly i dont know exactly what do you mean by BEATING, like a college fight or something) And agar sara thread parho to apko pata chal jaey ga chest thumping kon kar raha hai. Me ya apkey pyarey india Friends.
Anyways tension mat lo. Yahan koi jang nai honey wali. Lets talk about some sweet Indian Music instead of defence here cause aap parhtey to ho nai

Lolzzz, buddy u really have the capacity to write long articles. I never said india would cross borders or run over pak territory i was talking about border clashes or limited conflict, nevermind, i believe all out wars are not possible between big countries, but in limited conflicts india surely would have upper hand.

 

[The A-5]

@ahmadnawaz22 - If you had understood anything of last 7 pages of discussion, you would have known no one
was talking about invading no one. It is clear you have understood nothing of the matter and wish to tire out your
opponents in argument here by posting the same crap again & again.

 

[Zhukov]

@ahmadnawaz22 - If you had understood anything of last 7 pages of discussion, you would have known no one
was talking about invading no one. It is clear you have understood nothing of the matter and wish to tire out your
opponents in argument here by posting the same crap again & again.

You can say whatever you want.
You havent read the posts well.
All i said was Indian Numerical superiority to Pakistan Army is 1/2 and so india is not in a position to start a full scale invasion of Pakistan. Nothing more nothing less. Read the whole thread again mate if you can read.
on which all your indian mates started jumping up and down and started patriotic chest thumping that this is not the case. Indian Posters are posting crap like "ya ya india has 1/2 suoeriority but we have superior tactics" and shit. Go through thr thread again.
Trolling your self and calling me posting crap lolz.

Stay blessed. I have left this tireless arguments so many times. only you indian posters dont get put and want to end the tgread on a disrespectfull post toward Pakistan.

Stop doing it and dont elongate this thread anymore.

 

[Zhukov]

Lolzzz, buddy u really have the capacity to write long articles. I never said india would cross borders or run over pak territory i was talking about border clashes or limited conflict, nevermind, i believe all out wars are not possible between big countries, but in limited conflicts india surely would have upper hand.

Now thats a different argument. And i dont argue on a limited scale conflict that is dependent on many things. And of cource india will have upper hand no denying it. I havent said for once that Indian Forces are less capable then Pakistan

At least all of you have accepted the fact that Pakistan have reduced the Numerical superiority of Indian forces from 1/4 to 1/2 in its limited budget. Its a solid fact and there is no denying it. I dont understand why some indians cannot digest this fact. Its nothing to be ashamed of for indians.Infact Its something to be proud of by Pakistanis
This is extremely Negetive approach by these indian friends.
go through the thread friend and decide for your self who is posting crap.You tell me honestly