Pakistani chief ministers pay almost no tax

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Wats the biggie? only 5% pakistanis pay tax!

If you are talking about income tax bro then all civilian and military employees of the state have their income tax deducted at the time they are paid... (correct me if I m wrong)...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

why do you give democracy a bad name. it is accountability, they are not accountable for their actions, people like you and me are largely to be blamed for all these.

Do you have any idea how accountability works within Pakistan?

Its easy to blame yourself and others... The system is not working... The whole notion of justice becomes a joke when you need to pay hefty money to file a case in courts and then ludicrous amounts of fees to pay for lawyers... and if you accuse an influential person, your life, dignity and reputation is attacked...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Compare our tax collection percentage vs indias,sri lankas,irans,chinas or even bangladeshs..... u will get ur answer.

 

[Solomon2]

Compare our tax collection percentage vs indias,sri lankas,irans,chinas or even bangladeshs..... u will get ur answer.

It's your assertion, so shouldn't you do the work?

 

[Ahmad]

Do you have any idea how accountability works within Pakistan?

Its easy to blame yourself and others... The system is not working... The whole notion of justice becomes a joke when you need to pay hefty money to file a case in courts and then ludicrous amounts of fees to pay for lawyers... and if you accuse an influential person, your life, dignity and reputation is attacked...

what you say is corruption, if there is corruption then no system will work unless you eradicate corruption first. Fair enough, you might say this democratic system doesnt work and bring khilafa, what if there is corruption in khilafa and its officials? we will get the same result.

 

[Spring Onion]

I think he was talking about income tax.

well yeah but we are paying extra taxes after which a common man can not afford to pay income tax.

 

[Ahmad]

well yeah but we are paying extra taxes after which a common man can not afford to pay income tax.

well, the common man should be exempt from paying tax based on how much he/she earns, but the rich and super rich should be made to pay their right share of the tax, they are only getting rich by avoiding tax.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

what you say is corruption, if there is corruption then no system will work unless you eradicate corruption first. Fair enough, you might say this democratic system doesnt work and bring khilafa, what if there is corruption in khilafa and its officials? we will get the same result.

Your point is valid... We know historically also that there was a time when the institution of justice was neglected in the Caliphate and as a result Muslims suffered... However there is a deeper issue here...

Under a democracy, talk of accountability is mostly lip service... In Britain recently, one third of the MPs were implicated in corruption in a money scandal where MPs had been claiming money for things like their moats and rubber ducks as well as bookshelves... However only three people have been accused with criminal charges... The idea of Democracy is that if the majority says its alright, then it becomes alright... The right thing changes from day to day to place to place... Its a crime to engage in prostitution in Ireland but it is not a crime in Holland... Years ago Homosexuality was a crime, today there is talk of Homophobia... If you leave the current system in place, the only thing people have to do is to change the law and then wrong becomes right... Its much simpler for the landlords and dacoits that are in government in Pakistan to go this route... and they have been doing this actually... To get justice in the current judicial system in Pakistan is so difficult that waiting for a simple matter to be resolved can take decades at times...

It is different for the Caliphate... What is wrong yesterday remains wrong today and tomorrow... The elite, rich and powerful do not have the ability to change laws to suit their own agendas... Within Caliphate corruption can be an issue... but if that issue happens it is despite the presence of Islam... not the other way around...

In a democracy corruption is a norm, tolerated and sometimes even justified... Its accountability is confined to a temporal frame as well as a spatial frame... Leave the rich and powerful to decide right and wrong for you and you ll never get rid of corruption... the system itself is to be blamed... not just corruption only... Tomorrow these thieves that call themselves politicians in Pakistan are going to come up with a law that they do not even have to pay any tax... If the council of thieves that is our parliament agrees to that... Viola everyone is happy then!!!

Also, if a powerful person is accused of corruption, the prosecutor need not worry about his life itself... If such a situation arises, this can be taken as proof of the guilt of the accused in the Caliphate... The kind of democracy that the west has imposed upon us does not even offer protection to witnesses whose lives can be in danger... I do not know anyone who is offered police protection if they decided to launch a case against any of these dacoit politicians... No thank you for this democracy then... and yes... it most certainly is our fault at the end of the day... we are trying our best just to stay alive...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

well, the common man should be exempt from paying tax based on how much he/she earns, but the rich and super rich should be made to pay their right share of the tax, they are only getting rich by avoiding tax.

The trick is income tax instead of savings tax... The rich in this system get rich because they have saved multi million dollar bank accounts in some swiss bank (outside the country)... earn compound interest on it and never have to pay on their savings... either original or interest based...

 

[Ahmad]

The trick is income tax instead of savings tax... The rich in this system get rich because they have saved multi million dollar bank accounts in some swiss bank (outside the country)... earn compound interest on it and never have to pay on their savings... either original or interest based...

Swiss have become tax avoidance centre, but with regards to any other bank, you have to pay tax from the interest you earn from your savings. on the other hand, the interest on your savings is also covering you in terms of inflation, so not all of them is pure profit.

 

[Ahmad]

Under a democracy, talk of accountability is mostly lip service...

it depends on which country we are talking about, how much rule of law is applied and how much people are aware of their civil duties and how much they are ready to give their politicians a hard slap in case they do something wrong. Compare democracy of Paksitan and scandanavians which is thought to be almost corruption free.

In Britain recently, one third of the MPs were implicated in corruption in a money scandal where MPs had been claiming money for things like their moats and rubber ducks as well as bookshelves... However only three people have been accused with criminal charges...

Here is the difference between our democracy which accountablity doesnt have a role and their democracy that the politicians are accountable for their actions. All of those MPs who were accused of corruption repaid every penny they had stolen from the tax payer, while those who stubornly challenged the accustaions or their theft was so grave were summoned in court. i am sure that many of these MPs might not be in parliament now.

The idea of Democracy is that if the majority says its alright, then it becomes alright...

and the majirity dont approve off a bad thing.

To get justice in the current judicial system in Pakistan is so difficult that waiting for a simple matter to be resolved can take decades at times...

that is again down to corruption, why is it now happening in the UK?

It is different for the Caliphate... What is wrong yesterday remains wrong today and tomorrow... The elite, rich and powerful do not have the ability to change laws to suit their own agendas...

In pakistan the corrupt officials steal from ordinary people not becasue the law tells them, they do so because rule of law is weak and nobody can touch these powerful guys.

[Within Caliphate corruption can be an issue... but if that issue happens it is despite the presence of Islam... not the other way around... /QUOTE]

if somebody is corrupt then he is corrupt, i dont know how islam would prevent him from corruption.

In a democracy corruption is a norm, tolerated and sometimes even justified...

come on man.

I do not know anyone who is offered police protection if they decided to launch a case against any of these dacoit politicians...

probably they dont need protection as the damn politician cant touch them, it is not south east asia.

 

[Tayyab1796]

With every passing day i m more and more convinced that 'democracy' as we know it in Pak is not the solution to our problems ... we need to reform the electoral college (because universal suffrage is sensible only where majority is literate / educated) , here politicians can buy votes , can make unfulfilling promises , evade law and yet be elected . dump universal suffrage , only allow educated individuals to vote and i m sure in the presence of free media and independent judiciary we shall have 'loyal' rulers .

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

it depends on which country we are talking about, how much rule of law is applied and how much people are aware of their civil duties and how much they are ready to give their politicians a hard slap in case they do something wrong. Compare democracy of Paksitan and scandanavians which is thought to be almost corruption free.

It is "thought" to be almost corruption free... It is nt... They are better than others however... If you measure it with Pakistan or Afghanistan they are obviously much much better but my measuring yard stick is nt Pakistan (definitely not Afghanistan either)... My measuring yard stick is Islam... So from my point of view when the law states that there is nothing wrong with a man to cohabit with a woman, get her pregnant and then take another girl friend leaving behind a single mother, I say to hell with such a law and such a democracy... In fact I send Lanat of Allah on such a system... This simple point seems to be completely lost on you...


Here is the difference between our democracy which accountablity doesnt have a role and their democracy that the politicians are accountable for their actions. All of those MPs who were accused of corruption repaid every penny they had stolen from the tax payer, while those who stubornly challenged the accustaions or their theft was so grave were summoned in court. i am sure that many of these MPs might not be in parliament now.


A thief is a thief... I m not happy to know that my MP has stolen from my tax money... Since you think that accountability works in Britain so efficiently... tell me how do I get my MP punished? Returning stolen money is no punishment dear... This is what I meant when I said that under a democracy wrong is actually justified by those who are in power...

and the majirity dont approve off a bad thing.


This comment of yours is so ridiculous that I dont even want to comment on it... but I will...

In Sialkot recently a mob of people lynched two young boys to death falsely accusing them of being dacoits... guess what... the majority of people standing there at that time did nothing to defend them and watch the brutality taking place... some even recorded it on their mobile phone cameras...

Let me give you some historic perspective to your comment... There was a time not long ago when the majority of people in a country elected a man using a democratic election... This man upon coming to power murdered millions of people in the most bloody conflict recorded in the history of mankind... I ll make it simple for you... The country is Germany, the man is Hitler and the conflict is WWII

You also conveniently avoided the most basic but important reality of democratic systems which is that right and wrong are subject to whims and desires of the parliamentarians who can change right and wrong if they get a majority vote... what do you have to say to the temporal and spatial contradictions of the democracy...

I am surprised... I thought you were much smarter than this...

In pakistan the corrupt officials steal from ordinary people not becasue the law tells them, they do so because rule of law is weak and nobody can touch these powerful guys.

As you said... the law is weak... Zardari btw has not broken any laws... but according to democracy people have to prove that he has stolen money, whereas according to Islam HE has to prove where he got each and every penny of his money from... So as you put it the law is weak... we dont want such laws...

if somebody is corrupt then he is corrupt, i dont know how islam would prevent him from corruption.


and your name is Ahmad? Have you heard that in Islam there is such a thing as Two Angels recording your deeds, Judgement Day, Heaven and Hell? A thing called Taqwa?

probably they dont need protection as the damn politician cant touch them, it is not south east asia.

Hello... I am talking about south east asia... This is why no one even dares accuse anyone even though they know about their corruption... As for Britain... stay low dear... Dont talk about Islam to anyone these days... and dont grow a beard... You may be shot dead for being mistaken for a terrorist... They did that to a poor Brazilian not long ago...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

With every passing day i m more and more convinced that 'democracy' as we know it in Pak is not the solution to our problems ... we need to reform the electoral college (because universal suffrage is sensible only where majority is literate / educated) , here politicians can buy votes , can make unfulfilling promises , evade law and yet be elected . dump universal suffrage , only allow educated individuals to vote and i m sure in the presence of free media and independent judiciary we shall have 'loyal' rulers .

Even in universal suffrage the common man has absolutely no power... Its all a joke... talking about voting in elections to bring changes... every four or five years people go out putting a cross in front of their candidate' name who does nothing of substance and people keep hoping that their problems will be solved somehow...

Who is your candidate anyway...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Swiss have become tax avoidance centre, but with regards to any other bank, you have to pay tax from the interest you earn from your savings. on the other hand, the interest on your savings is also covering you in terms of inflation, so not all of them is pure profit.

Yes... but I think the main bulk is formed by returns from income tax rather than savings tax in current economics... The corporations and companies provide most of the tax funds for the state...