Pakistani Aircraft Engines, SAMs & AAMs

[Ababeel]

In this fast high technological world there is literally no place or respect to technologically backward nations.As we can see the hold on the world of Western & specially Americans due to their technological advancement and that also in defence technology.
I want reply from knowledgeable forum Leaders/Members that are there any possibilities in near or distance future that Pakistan can make breakthroughs in developing its own aircraft ''ENGINE'' ; Long range ''SAM'' & BVR ''AAM''.
These questions are arising in my mind since despite developing various types of surface to surface missiles and a few Short range shoulder fired SAMs its no where in developing Long range AAMs & SAMs.On the other hand if we see Indian missile program it looks very much advance and diversified and spaned on all types of missile development, even Anti Ballistic Missile (ABM) and an advanced Space program, comparable with developed space powers.

 

[Contrarian]

Sorry friend, Pakistan cannot design and produce its own SAM, BVRAAM, or engine. Bear in mind, simple production is different from design and production. Licenced assembly can be obtained by Pakistan from a country willing to sell.

However designing these is a long drawn process and the chances appear remote even in the distant future.

To correct you, India has indeed pursued all kinds of misisle development but not all of them hhave been successfull. The space program has been a grand sucess but not the missiles.
Case in point being the Trishul SAM system. India has now teamed up with MBDA to produce 'Maitri' LLQRM instead. The engine Kaveri is also not progressing satisfactorily, with it being overweight and not giving the required amount of thrust. Therefore again foreign consultance has been acquired to iron out the problems.

For the AAM, there is Astra AAM, which has recently undergone 3 tests in the last week itself. Preliminary reports suggest that it is successfull.

 

[Keysersoze]

In this fast high technological world there is literally no place or respect to technologically backward nations.As we can see the hold on the world of Western & specially Americans due to their technological advancement and that also in defence technology.
I want reply from knowledgeable forum Leaders/Members that are there any possibilities in near or distance future that Pakistan can make breakthroughs in developing its own aircraft ''ENGINE'' ; Long range ''SAM'' & BVR ''AAM''.
These questions are arising in my mind since despite developing various types of surface to surface missiles and a few Short range shoulder fired SAMs its no where in developing Long range AAMs & SAMs.On the other hand if we see Indian missile program it looks very much advance and diversified and spaned on all types of missile development, even Anti Ballistic Missile (ABM) and an advanced Space program, comparable with developed space powers.

Its funny but you seem to constantly ask the same questions......I am starting to wonder if webby should check your IP address

 

[Keysersoze]

Sorry friend, Pakistan cannot design and produce its own SAM, BVRAAM, or engine. Bear in mind, simple production is different from design and production. Licenced assembly can be obtained by Pakistan from a country willing to sell.

However designing these is a long drawn process and the chances appear remote even in the distant future.

To correct you, India has indeed pursued all kinds of misisle development but not all of them hhave been successfull. The space program has been a grand sucess but not the missiles.
Case in point being the Trishul SAM system. India has now teamed up with MBDA to produce 'Maitri' LLQRM instead. The engine Kaveri is also not progressing satisfactorily, with it being overweight and not giving the required amount of thrust. Therefore again foreign consultance has been acquired to iron out the problems.

For the AAM, there is Astra AAM, which has recently undergone 3 tests in the last week itself. Preliminary reports suggest that it is successfull.

Well judging by the relative success of the the two countries programs. I would suggest that Pak has taken the correct path. That is to say improve upon designs that are already there.
Indigenous is only of value IF the project is delivered on time and at a cheaper price to imports. Otherwise all it is , is a ego boosting effort.

Oh and for the record reverse engineering a Cruise missile in 5-6 years is no mean feat (after all what is the point of reinventing the wheel?)

 

[melb4aust]

Oh and for the record reverse engineering a Cruise missile in 5-6 years is no mean feat (after all what is the point of reinventing the wheel?)

Hahahahaha. dude u rock . that last quote of urzz aahhh amazing.....

 

[Contrarian]

Well judging by the relative success of the the two countries programs. I would suggest that Pak has taken the correct path. That is to say improve upon designs that are already there.
Indigenous is only of value IF the project is delivered on time and at a cheaper price to imports. Otherwise all it is , is a ego boosting effort.

I hope you arent mentioning JF-17 as this. Coz India has been doing a licenced assembly for a long time too, from Su-30MKI to Jags. And mind you phase 3 of Su-30MKI production involves development from raw materials.

Oh and for the record reverse engineering a Cruise missile in 5-6 years is no mean feat (after all what is the point of reinventing the wheel?)

No its not, i expect you to know much better than this Key.

Only when you can make your equipment for the first time, whether delayed or not, is when you can actually get into the weapons making scenario. The first time, it maybe delayed, it may not be upto the mark at that point of time, HOWEVER, it gives your industry the VERY vital experience and technical prowess. Something which cannot be gained by licenced assembly. So the next time you make something, it is far better, on time, etc, etc.

There is no other way around it. Pakistan is just one of the countries who are buy military equipment from other nations. India though the same now, has put tremendous effort and R&D into achieving self sufficiency and spawn a defence industry.

 

[EagleEyes]

HOWEVER, it gives your industry the VERY vital experience and technical prowess. Something which cannot be gained by licenced assembly. So the next time you make something, it is far better, on time, etc, etc.

Explain your theory. Starting something from an scratch is not something Pakistan can afford. It doesn't have enough military funds. It cannot afford to fail a plane or tanks like India.

Again explain your theory. Re-inventing the wheel isn't something that Pakistan can do, but using the already made wheel and improve on it is something what it plans to do.

What has India learned from starting a project from scratch that Pakistan wouldnt learn?

 

[PakSniper]

No its not, i expect you to know much better than this Key.

Only when you can make your equipment for the first time, whether delayed or not, is when you can actually get into the weapons making scenario. The first time, it maybe delayed, it may not be up to the mark at that point of time, HOWEVER, it gives your industry the VERY vital experience and technical prowess. Something which cannot be gained by licensed assembly. So the next time you make something, it is far better, on time, etc, etc.

Their' is nothing wrong with what key's said, also know Russia copied Royal rice engines, in the past as well, etc. And then build up their industry, to where it is today, and copied America bombers after WWII.

Anyways, let's take China for example, which came into the aviation industry by copying USSR planes, etc. But now at the present time they have build upon from copying and licensing and now making their own planes (J-10, JF-17, JH-7, etc). They have gained vital experience through this, experience doesn't mean you have to re-invent the wheel, by improving technology you have to learn it and then improve upon it (Ex. Microsoft Windows throughout the years building up, from those versions before it). And even with this they are in the "Weapons making scenario".

Also, know that through copying and licensing China is much more ahead of India in defense industry, instead of re-inventing the wheel, and this has also but US on alert on China's rising power. So, your theory is flawed, and we seen what happened with India when its trying to re-invent the wheel.

Mind you that this is India's 2nd attempt in making a plane after the first failure, shouldn't have India learned and done better the 2nd time?

There is no other way around it. Pakistan is just one of the countries who are buy military equipment from other nations. India though the same now, has put tremendous effort and R&D into achieving self sufficiency and spawn a defense industry.

Your point? Their are alot of nations that can't build weapons of their own need and have to import them, Pakistan is no exception (Including India which can't build advanced weapons, considering the failures of DRDO, etc.). While India's defense industry is expanding so is Pakistan's compared to other nations in Asia. Also, how is it self sufficiency while you also have to get engines to run LCA from outside and important technology for other military goods. Both nations have a long way to go. Know this India has had more failures than Pakistan, even though we do JV's with China we are also learning.

I believe I don't have to point out the failures, etc while you, did already answering to someone else (in this thread), and the assistance your getting, etc, and its no different with Pakistan. So it's best to stop mainlining Pakistan while your industry itself has it's draw backs.

 

[EagleEyes]

Please dont degrade the thread by discussing never ending delays and failures of Indian defence industry.

Stick to the topic. For all.

Thanks.

 

[Contrarian]

There is no point talking about it, there is nothing to discuss. I could give a lengthy reply to your post paksniper, but it would not change your opinion. So forget it. BTW its Rolls Royce, not royal rice.

 

[A.Rahman]

Its funny but you seem to constantly ask the same questions......I am starting to wonder if webby should check your IP address

I found some multiple accounts.
under "Emirates Telecommunications Corporation"

 

[Ababeel]

I found the reply from Paksniper has weight despite the fact that, India has many achievements to show as its own. M Mishra ji is talking one sided only, not considering the much much failures of Indian R & D institutions. Despite the facts that India has forayed into some fields of hi-tech, these achievements have much clandestine help from West, specially Russia (Super sonic cruise missile, Akash long range SAM,cryogenic engines, Sukhui Fighter technology etc.,America (Hi-tech missile technology secrets theft from US as Americans acusing again and again and recently also 2 Indians charged again, Nuclear Technological help provided in past & not the recent one. and more over secret links with the Zionist state of Israel to receive the hi tech defence technology etc.)
On the other hand the Pakistani way of developing the weapons looks following Chinese steps, Copy, Reverse engineer and combine these results with whatever the R & D initiated indigenously and try to develop own products.

 

[Adux]

can we stop with the colour coding pls

 

[Interceptor]

In this fast high technological world there is literally no place or respect to technologically backward nations.As we can see the hold on the world of Western & specially Americans due to their technological advancement and that also in defence technology.
I want reply from knowledgeable forum Leaders/Members that are there any possibilities in near or distance future that Pakistan can make breakthroughs in developing its own aircraft ''ENGINE'' ; Long range ''SAM'' & BVR ''AAM''.
These questions are arising in my mind since despite developing various types of surface to surface missiles and a few Short range shoulder fired SAMs its no where in developing Long range AAMs & SAMs.On the other hand if we see Indian missile program it looks very much advance and diversified and spaned on all types of missile development, even Anti Ballistic Missile (ABM) and an advanced Space program, comparable with developed space powers.

Pakistan has already made break through in miniture Jet engines for the use in its UAV program of which there were Seakeaming technology which later lead to the break though in the Babur Cruise missile which uses of course a Jet engine.

Pakistan has kept secret about its programs in developing counter technology it follows the chinnese principle to reveal its technology when its required and not boast about it before its development.

For the sams we have produces the Joint Stand Off weapon and are in the development of a redesigned R&D which includes a new advance facility of electonical designing at the momment its in construction.

 

[Interceptor]

^^
For the BVR.

Pakistan is jointly developing the SD-10 with China and this will be added into to arsenal of the JF-17 and F-16.