Pakistan working on Nuclear Submarine ?

[Bratva]

Just exactly how much is the navy budget and going from the mentioned timeline, how much has been spent aggregately ?

Bill of this project will be footed from SPD black budget most probably. If I take hazard, ratio of SPD & Navy financing would be of 80:20 percentage because Naval does have a Strategic command component.

What does "Ameer ul momineen" mean???

Nawaz sharif attempt of giving himself a title of " Leader of the faithful" aka Ameer ul momineen in 1998.

 

[Viper0011.]

That is very unlikely that you will see a indigenous Pakistan submarine in 2 years, leasing one however is a option.

You won't see one in two years as in a full platform, they will start the sea trials with the hull. Expect full sea trials (weapons systems too) by 2020. They would do what you guys did to the Arihant (the 30% work completed trials and ceremonies ).

But Pakistani sub's hull and basic sub-systems would be completed by the end of 2018. More tech will come in around 2020 before the next round of sea trials with the full package!

Nawaz sharif attempt of giving himself a title of " Leader of the faithful" aka Ameer ul momineen in 1998.

Common man, you are smarter than this, I don't even know how to answer this post as the topic is pretty scientific. These are politicians games everywhere. Lets focus on the the good work they are doing and ignore such stupidity...

 

[Bratva]

You won't see one in two years as in a full platform, they will start the sea trials with the hull. Expect full sea trials (weapons systems too) by 2020. They would do what you guys did to the Arihant (the 30% work completed trials and ceremonies ).

But Pakistani sub's hull and basic sub-systems would be completed by the end of 2018. More tech will come in around 2020 before the next round of sea trials with the full package!

Are you Baba Vanga protegee by any chance ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-who-predicted-the-rise-of-isis-a6765071.html

 

[salarsikander]

Bill of this project will be footed by SPD black budget most probably. If I take hazard, ratio of SPD & Navy financing would be of 80:20 percentage because Naval does have a Strategic command component.



Nawaz sharif attempt of giving himself a title of " Leader of the faithful" aka Ameer ul momineen in 1998.

Hi,

I would love to take a bite from that sweet red apple but as much as I would love to, I will also be very very prudent as red glowing apple could be poisonous. The acquisition program of Navy is under bad shape, navy gets funding after everything has been eaten up by other departments. Unless the economic activity kick starts, funding such huge project would be next to impossible task. Not that I am pessimistic, but I dont really see how we are going to get there. My best bet is we could get submarines fitted with nuke tipped missiles

 

[Dr Gupta]

As expected china will be heavily involved. Industrial capacity will be upgraded accordingly by chinese or through semi black market purchaes or purchases disguised as for civilian use If and when we go down the route of building a nuke sub. We are building Plutonium reactors officially byourself since last 12-14 years by ourself (though with chinese assistance). So making functional reactors milestone has been achieved but at the expense of time. Minituarization would be more or less the same. No matter if it take 15 years, it will be done somehow

Look at the holistic picture, With growing IN surveillance capabilities, Aircraft carriers and sophisticated Anti Air denial assets i.e Barak 8, Sub sonic SLCM will be at a higher risk of being intercepted before it reaches its target.

Just as Shaheen 3 was made keeping Andoman and Nicobar islands, SLBM along with nuke subs would be made keeping the andoman and nicobar island in mind

See our Island base is more to check China on the straits, but yes these things are done covertly and black market is definitely a option Pakistan has and perhaps still making use of this (I give you credit what you did in the 1980's)

I still see a lease as the safer first option for Pakistan as the Chinese can train you also while you develop a sub it makes sense.

 

[Viper0011.]

Are you Baba Vanga protegee by any chance ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-who-predicted-the-rise-of-isis-a6765071.html

I don't have magic to do predictions. I just write what I know about 90% to be true and verified from multiple sources at very high places, specially in Indo-Pak scenario.

And I don't know about Baba Vanga, (weird as* name) but I do know Nostradamus had made predictions like over a century ago of the events unfolding now

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostradamus

 

[salarsikander]

See our Island base is more to check China on the straits, but yes these things are done covertly and black market is definitely a option Pakistan has and perhaps still making use of this (I give you credit what you did in the 1980's)

I still see a lease as the safer first option for Pakistan as the Chinese can train you also while you develop a sub it makes sense.

Back then there we no security protocols as we have today. So i doubt anyone in black market would be offering us anything other than highly exotic weeds. China could come up with something like joint venturing program essentially a legal way of transferring tech and equipment to us.

 

[Bratva]

Hi,

I would love to take a bite from that sweet red apple but as much as I would love to, I will also be very very prudent as red glowing apple could be poisonous. The acquisition program of Navy is under bad shape, navy gets funding after everything has been eaten up by other departments. Unless the economic activity kick starts, funding such huge project would be next to impossible task. Not that I am pessimistic, but I dont really see how we are going to get there. My best bet is we could get submarines fitted with nuke tipped missiles

Yes you are cent percent right. I'm not talking with certainty. I'm making probabilistic guesses just as you about the time frame when Pakistan decides to make a nuke sub which may happen next year, or in 2020 or in 2030 nobody know . As @Arsalan pointed out previously the pace of work on nuke propulsion is almost non existent coupled with chinese sub acquisitions, I'm seeing a time frame of 2025-2030 when Pakistan might go for nuke sub because at that time Indian aircraft carriers plus nuke subs would be operational

I don't have magic to do predictions. I just write what I know about 90% to be true and verified from multiple sources at very high places, specially in Indo-Pak scenario.

And I don't know about Baba Vanga, (weird as* name) but I do know Nostradamus had made predictions like over a century ago of the events unfolding now

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostradamus

Baba Vanga made predictions about Muslim ruling the world by 2050 hence I'm more inclined towards her predictions then Nostradamus

 

[Viper0011.]

The acquisition program of Navy is under bad shape, navy gets funding after everything has been eaten up by other departments.

Unless the economic activity kick starts, funding such huge project would be next to impossible task. Not that I am pessimistic, but I dont really see how we are going to get there. My best bet is we could get submarines fitted with nuke tipped missiles

This project doesn't come under the annual naval modernization program or even the defense budget!! I think this is a good enough indicator of what I am trying to say

And the Navy has the second highest priority right now, the PAF has become the first one. So the current government is planning a $ 4 billion defense budget increase for the next year. It may all be hidden due to various reasons. The wait is for 2018, the second full expected economic activity kicks in, many new Naval modernization contracts will be signed ASAP (and some would have the work started in 2017, just delayed signing ceremony due to 2018 economic throughput challenges)

 

[salarsikander]

Yes you are cent percent right. I'm not talking with certainty. I'm making probabilistic guesses just as you about the time frame when Pakistan decides to make a nuke sub which may happen next year, or in 2020 or in 2030 nobody know . As @Arsalan pointed out previously the pace of work on nuke propulsion is almost non existent coupled with chinese sub acquisitions, I'm seeing a ragtime of 2025-2030 when Pakistan might go for nuke sub because at that time Indian aircraft carriers plus nuke subs would be operational

that too starting from today.

 

[Bratva]

that too starting from today.

by starting today you mean experimental work on nuke propulsion ? If so then it has been ongoing since 2006

 

[salarsikander]

This project doesn't come under the annual naval modernization program or even the defense budget!! I think this is a good enough indicator of what I am trying to say

And the Navy has the second highest priority right now, the PAF has become the first one. So the current government is planning a $ 4 billion defense budget increase for the next year. It may all be hidden due to various reasons. The wait is for 2018, the second full expected economic activity kicks in, many new Naval modernization contracts will be signed ASAP (and some would have the work started in 2017, just delayed signing ceremony due to 2018 economic throughput challenges)

But it will surely come from national exchequer, right ?
plus having said that, what of the industrial capacity we are nowhere near to that ( at least right now) . Yes, with increased economic activity we will naturally be inclined towards navy, to protect our sea lanes and to protect our interest. All that ambitious day dreaming depending on how well and how fast the CPEC kicks in and delivers what it promises.

Right now we are struggling to fund the purchase of mere 8 jets that we love most

by starting today you mean experimental work on nuke propulsion ? If so then it has been ongoing since 2006

As @Arsalan pointed out previously the pace of work on nuke propulsion is almost non existent

 

[Dr Gupta]

Back then there we no security protocols as we have today. So i doubt anyone in black market would be offering us anything other than highly exotic weeds. China could come up with something like joint venturing program essentially a legal way of transferring tech and equipment to us.

Sometimes companies are fronts and they channel equipment and technology (China buys companies in the west and uses those too)

 

[Viper0011.]

But it will surely come from national exchequer, right ?
plus having said that, what of the industrial capacity we are nowhere near to that ( at least right now) . Yes, with increased economic activity we will naturally be inclined towards navy, to protect our sea lanes and to protect our interest. All that ambitious day dreaming depending on how well and how fast the CPEC kicks in and delivers what it promises.

Right now we are struggling to fund the purchase of mere 8 jets that we love most

1) Yes, 50-75% of it would come from the national $$. The US knows you guys now have the money, which is why they are also asking that Pakistan pay for the F-16's from the national balance. Everyone now knows Pakistan has made serious economic progress and now its a matter of time for the economy to take off. Naturally, everyone would try to get as much cash as possible instead of giving aid. That's the story behind the 8 jets (add Indian pressure into the mix too, to get things more interesting)

2) The fundamental industrial capacity is there from Augusta's development, years ago. They will expand it a bit to support a bigger hull (re-configuring hull development machines and berths, etc) and the tech would be a cross between new things China has crated and the experience gained from Augusta's. Another Naval and Commercial ports are also in designs to be executed post 2020 due to the economic and sea-lane security needs.

3) The CPEC isn't the ONLY thing that in pipes. Right now it looks like that's it. There are a bunch of things from the West which will be coming to Pakistan in the shape of investments. Agreements have already taken places (some verbally, some paper work done). But every single investor wants NO power outages and Total political stability so their billions of investments aren't gone if there is any stupid power play within Pakistan's political system, instead of letting the system run its course, which means the policies and agreements being made will be honored by whoever comes next. I can't stress enough that this is WHY the political system needs to be turbulence free so the world can see a politically and democratically mature Pakistan.

So as things move into late 2017 and the beginning of 2018, you'll start to hear more news on economic activity, and way beyond CPEC. A lot of manufacturing (including Semi Conductor and Electronics) is coming to Pakistan, which will turn it into a mini-Korea (and in a decade or two, above Korea and Mexico, due to population and economic size of Pakistan going head on with Australia).

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

@Arsalan

Remember 2012 announcement on PTV that in 5 year time Pakistan will get a nuclear Sub. There was a hugh thread on PDF on this as well. Spread that hugh investment on a timescale of 10-12 years just as what we did with our Nuclear program and voila, we will have a nuke sub



I like your usage of Turkish words which are commonly used in Urdu as well

These are moslty Arabic and Persian words, slightly modified in Turkish...