Pakistan will get 34 T37 from Turkey.

[untitled]

..........
and you get to start Ghazwa e hind.

Plus it also makes you think twice before you start your mahabharat v2.0

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Good joke buddy

Bro,
It was based only on aerodynamics...If you look at the F-5 it has a single vertical stabilizer where as the Saeqah has two giving it a smaller turning and higher manuring capability.

As for the avionics and weapons are concerned they can be updated with the latest radars and electronic suites...
F-5S of the Republic of Singapore is equipped with the Galileo Avionica's FIAR Grifo-F X-band radar and are capable of firing the AIM- 120 AMRAAM.
F-5N used by the US Navy as aggressors use the AN/APG-69 Radar.

PAF is currently looking for a lightweight AESA radar for the JF-17's, so if PAF desires these radars could also be installed on other aircraft in PAF.

The Requirement of Pakistan Navy is to search and target Indian Aircraft Carriers and other War Ships, hence it relies heavily on Carrier Killer missiles which require an aircraft to carry them.

There is an other kind of war that goes on which is to inflict a higher price loss on the other party... for example
A highly modified F-5 is priced to be at 2-2.5 million USD is able to sink an Aircraft Carrier which is priced at approximately 1-1.75 Billion USD (both lost) it would still be a big win for the country operating the F-5.

T-38 or T-37, these two would be hunted down like flies if used in Naval aviation tasks with using ordnance.

Hope you understand how Pakistan likes to play asymmetrical war.

@Arsalan

Sir,
F-5, Saeqah can be used as low cost low end bomber role aircraft flown under JF-17 cover giving PN a very good strike mix in fraction of the cost then operating a heavy.

 

[IrbiS]

Bro,
It was based only on aerodynamics...If you look at the F-5 it has a single vertical stabilizer where as the Saeqah has two giving it a smaller turning and higher manuring capability.

As for the avionics and weapons are concerned they can be updated with the latest radars and electronic suites...
F-5S of the Republic of Singapore is equipped with the Galileo Avionica's FIAR Grifo-F X-band radar and are capable of firing the AIM- 120 AMRAAM.
F-5N used by the US Navy as aggressors use the AN/APG-69 Radar.

PAF is currently looking for a lightweight AESA radar for the JF-17's, so if PAF desires these radars could also be installed on other aircraft in PAF.

The Requirement of Pakistan Navy is to search and target Indian Aircraft Carriers and other War Ships, hence it relies heavily on Carrier Killer missiles which require an aircraft to carry them.

There is an other kind of war that goes on which is to inflict a higher price loss on the other party... for example
A highly modified F-5 is priced to be at 2-2.5 million USD is able to sink an Aircraft Carrier which is priced at approximately 1-1.75 Billion USD (both lost) it would still be a big win for the country operating the F-5.



Hope you understand how Pakistan likes to play asymmetrical war.

@Arsalan

Sir,
F-5, Saeqah can be used as low cost low end bomber role aircraft flown under JF-17 cover giving PN a very good strike mix in fraction of the cost then operating a heavy.

As you wrote yourself ''Galileo Avionica's FIAR Grifo-F X-band radar'' its not an AESA neither is apg-69, and we already use Grifo-7 & Grifo-M derivatives on our ROSEs and PGs which are also BVR capable.

As for low end of PN's inventory, why buy F-5 junk? just upgrade Mirages with new avionics and new missile

 

[Neptune]

Bro,
It was based only on aerodynamics...If you look at the F-5 it has a single vertical stabilizer where as the Saeqah has two giving it a smaller turning and higher manuring capability.

As for the avionics and weapons are concerned they can be updated with the latest radars and electronic suites...
F-5S of the Republic of Singapore is equipped with the Galileo Avionica's FIAR Grifo-F X-band radar and are capable of firing the AIM- 120 AMRAAM.
F-5N used by the US Navy as aggressors use the AN/APG-69 Radar.

PAF is currently looking for a lightweight AESA radar for the JF-17's, so if PAF desires these radars could also be installed on other aircraft in PAF.

The Requirement of Pakistan Navy is to search and target Indian Aircraft Carriers and other War Ships, hence it relies heavily on Carrier Killer missiles which require an aircraft to carry them.

There is an other kind of war that goes on which is to inflict a higher price loss on the other party... for example
A highly modified F-5 is priced to be at 2-2.5 million USD is able to sink an Aircraft Carrier which is priced at approximately 1-1.75 Billion USD (both lost) it would still be a big win for the country operating the F-5.


Hope you understand how Pakistan likes to play asymmetrical war.

@Arsalan

Sir,
F-5, Saeqah can be used as low cost low end bomber role aircraft flown under JF-17 cover giving PN a very good strike mix in fraction of the cost then operating a heavy.

Alright mate.

1- Do you actually really know what an advisory squadron is? By the roughest description, weapons testing, using enemy tactics in exercises...etc. Not an operational combat squadron.

2- How do you plan to transform T-38s into combat capable aircraft similar to its successor F-5, if its not F-5s you're getting?

3- The mentioned variants above do not have laser target designators, also as far as I know AN-APG-69's ground tracking range isn't greater than 5sqm, 20nm. 20 nautical miles approach to surface targets for maritime strikes that poses AK-630, Israeli Barak SAM systems. This is not "playing assymetric wars" by your definition. I really am tired of making technical descriptions here but to converse it to most simple judgement, it is suicide.

4- Will US give limited software access to any country to integrate Chinese weapons on it, the so called carrier-killer?

5- You mean cost effective solutions but you are talking about spending millions on a aircraft like F-5 to modernize it and another millions or political tolerances to integrate Chinese missiles (let's say US even agreed to that) and arming it with AIM-120s that have vastly greater range than the aircraft's radar itself considering that it's a very capable BVR missile....and at the end of the day it's probably gonna end up with a single Barak launch, if not two.
Yeah hell of a "other kind of war that goes on which is to inflict a higher price loss on the other party".

6- Let alone corvettes or FACs that have capable CIWS platforms for a threat like this, you are talking about "sinking" an aircraft carrier using F-5 aircraft upgraded with a couple millions that needs to approach at least 20nm to a ship thats escorted by guided missile destroyers and frigates. Yeah, the best scenario is being shot down over the ADIZ of the enemy fleet, giving a little chance to recover the pilots rather than losing them as POWs.

BY THE WAY, I didn't even included budget constraints.

Then I get relaxed when I realize that the decision maker at CAOC or CIC is a PAF/PN officer.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Turkey to gift Pakistan 34 jet trainers - thenews.com.pk

Turkey to gift Pakistan 34 jet trainers


Muhammad Saleh Zaafir
Thursday, August 20, 2015

ISLAMABAD: In a gesture of goodwill, Turkey has decided to provide 34 jet trainers to Pakistan as a gift. The Northrop T-38 Talon is a two-seat, twin-engine supersonic jet trainer and it was the world’s first supersonic trainer and also the most produced.

The T-38 remains in service as of 2015 in air forces throughout the world. The decision was conveyed by Turkish Commander of Air Force General Abidin Unal to his counterpart in Pakistan Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman when they met recently.

It is likely the planes would be handed over to Pakistan before the end of the year. Highly placed sources of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) told The News here other day that the supply of 34 planes will reduce financial burden on the PAF and the planes will cater to PAF needs at least for the next 10 years.

T-38M is a modernised Turkish Air Force T-38A with full glass cockpit and avionics, upgraded by Turkish Aerospace Industries under the project. The US Air Force is using T-38M extensively and about 50,000 pilots have got training on this type of plane. One plane costs US $5.879 million as it is a US made machine that is being used world over including Nasa.

The sources said that Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman would go to Turkey to receive the gift from the Turkish Air Force. The sources said that Pakistan would keep upgrading its JF-17 Thunder multirole fighter plane which is attracting buyers world over.

Pakistan has also initiated search for the most sophisticated multi-role fifth generation plane and for the purpose Sweden, American, Turkish and some European planes are being examined. India is acquiring planes of fifth generation although it has reduced its order from 126 to 36 and that deal too is facing snags. It is expected that Pakistan would also acquire fifth generation fighter-bomber planes for its air force, the sources added.

 

[Pakistanisage]

According to @Windjammer, these are T-37 trainers instead of T-38s and Pakistan is already operating T-37s.

PAF has been using T-37 for the last 50 + years.

whoever gives you anything free becomes your deeper than, higher than, sweeter than friend
and you get to start Ghazwa e hind.

Tou Khayrat Batni shuru ker dou Sher,

 

[proud_indian]

PAF has been using T-37 for the last 50 + years.






Tou Khayrat Batni shuru ker dou Sher,

janab ye khayarat kya hota hai?

 

[Pakistanisage]

As Combat-Master stated It is more possible mentioned jet trainers Turkey will transfer to Pakistan may be T-37. T-38M Ari jet trainers are newly upgraded by TAI and TurAf deadly needs them for following 15 years. Most probably, The authors made a classic typo and put the name of T-38 instead of T-37.

Bro, Too many details in the media for it to be a typo. The News Article talks about T-38M Talon which are a modernized version of original T-38A of Turkish Air Force. Now that is too T-38M specific news to be a mere Typo. Let's see what happens in Dec. 2015 when PAF Chief visits Ankara , Turkey....

I understand that T-38A have been Modernized to T-38C standards as far as the Avionics are concerned, but the Air Frame and Engines are old. Maybe Turkish Air Force had already decided to retire them in few years anyway and were willing to part with them.

Even for PAF these T-38 will serve as Stop Gap measure for few years, till a modern LIFT Trainer is acquired. In any event Pakistan Air Force appreciates the kind gesture on part of our Turkish Brothers.

P.S. Kindly read my Post # 200 that shows very specific news by a major Pakistani Newspaper. Thanks.

I dont wanna to get involved in a history debate but Timur is not our favorite historical character my friend.Besides the era of the Ottomans is over.We are the Turkish Republic and the seed that our Pakistani brothers send to us (gold) helped us to beat the Brits, French, Greek and Italian invasion.We was near to an extinction but we grow again a mighty tree.The modern Turkish Republic.

God Bless our Turkish Brothers and Sisters.

When you become Strong , Prosperous and Happy, that makes us Pakistani People very Happy.

 

[fatman17]

Bro,
It was based only on aerodynamics...If you look at the F-5 it has a single vertical stabilizer where as the Saeqah has two giving it a smaller turning and higher manuring capability.

As for the avionics and weapons are concerned they can be updated with the latest radars and electronic suites...
F-5S of the Republic of Singapore is equipped with the Galileo Avionica's FIAR Grifo-F X-band radar and are capable of firing the AIM- 120 AMRAAM.
F-5N used by the US Navy as aggressors use the AN/APG-69 Radar.

PAF is currently looking for a lightweight AESA radar for the JF-17's, so if PAF desires these radars could also be installed on other aircraft in PAF.

The Requirement of Pakistan Navy is to search and target Indian Aircraft Carriers and other War Ships, hence it relies heavily on Carrier Killer missiles which require an aircraft to carry them.

There is an other kind of war that goes on which is to inflict a higher price loss on the other party... for example
A highly modified F-5 is priced to be at 2-2.5 million USD is able to sink an Aircraft Carrier which is priced at approximately 1-1.75 Billion USD (both lost) it would still be a big win for the country operating the F-5.



Hope you understand how Pakistan likes to play asymmetrical war.

@Arsalan

Sir,
F-5, Saeqah can be used as low cost low end bomber role aircraft flown under JF-17 cover giving PN a very good strike mix in fraction of the cost then operating a heavy.

Seriously

 

[Salahuddin_ayyubi]

@Horus @Oscar @Jango @Jungibaaz @fatman17 @Hakan @Neptune

So Pakistan not buying
Russian Yak-130 Trainers

 

[Mohammad Ryan Farooqi]

what can we gift them?

 

[saurav]

There is an other kind of war that goes on which is to inflict a higher price loss on the other party... for example
A highly modified F-5 is priced to be at 2-2.5 million USD is able to sink an Aircraft Carrier which is priced at approximately 1-1.75 Billion USD (both lost) it would still be a big win for the country operating the F-5.

.

Great strategy.. Couple of queries : Aircraft carriers carry fighter aircrafts, right..? In case of Indian carriers, Mig-29Ks.. Will they allow F-5s to come close enough ? Also a carrier group has some destroyers/ frigates as well. In Indian case they will be armed with Barak-8/Barak-1 combo.. Can F-5 evade this protection layer..?

 

[Arsalan]

@Arsalan

Sir,
F-5, Saeqah can be used as low cost low end bomber role aircraft flown under JF-17 cover giving PN a very good strike mix in fraction of the cost then operating a heavy.

JF-17 it self is not a 5th generation fighter nor a heavy fighter jet like J-11 or Su-30 or F-15 etc that we can/will want to fly other air craft UNDER it to surprise the enemy. This is not how it works. Secondly it will be quite stupid to induct that a totally new platform for strike roles, invest in its infrastructure development and maintenance, then training and other costs and all that for an aircraft that offers NOTHING that we do not have in plane that we already operate.
It is not like buying candies for the market that kid can buy a few of each flavor.

Yes yes yes T37 are being gifted

Oky so then it was a mistake. Thanks for clearing it Sir.
The report also said that these aircraft (that now are T-37) were modified and upgraded by Turkey. You think that past was also wrong or they just got the name wrong and we will get modified T-37s?
I ask about modification because if they are then they are most likely to replace the older fleet and the parts from old planes can then go to spares.
If the modification part was also incorrect that these planes will most likely be used for spare parts, at least number of them will be.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

We were in a deficit for a High Tech LIFT for long and we were looking towards Yak-130 and L-15 and we were using Chinese FT series trainers for that purpose but now it will be taken care by T-38 one of the most reliable LIFT in the world.
That's surely a stopgap before a new LIFT arrive in PAF may be Yak-130 or Amerachi Italy ??

 

[Mughal-Prince]

Pakistan has also initiated search for the most sophisticated multi-role fifth generation plane and for the purpose Sweden, American, Turkish and some European planes are being examined. India is acquiring planes of fifth generation although it has reduced its order from 126 to 36 and that deal too is facing snags. It is expected that Pakistan would also acquire fifth generation fighter-bomber planes for its air force, the sources added.

Mmmm Sweden and European I smell JASNG, EFTIII and F-15SA .
Seems we are in for Turkish 5th Gen Fighter Program.