Pakistan was created on the basis of group nationalism and not religion

[Vinod2070]

Even Jnnah was an Indian Muslim. He had Hindu ancestors from Gujarat.

Seems some people also left their Islamic Pakistan for the kaffir Islamophobe West and are preaching their hate from there!

 

[EjazR]

Well I am very happy and glad that most Muslims of India decided to stay back in India. 185 million is the maximum population we can have for Pakistan, and we Pakistanis dont like those Muslims who follow indian culture and go out of their way to impress their kuffar masters.

My advice for Indian Muslims is that each Indian Muslim couple should make 10 babies and make more and more babies so one day India can be Muslim majority.

Be careful because what you are talking includes Allama Iqbal and Jinnah as well

"I Sir, stand here with a clear conscience and I say that I am a [Indian] nationalist first, a nationalist second and nationalist last... I once more appeal to this House. Whether you are a Mussalman or a Hindu, for God's sake do not import the discussion of communal matters into this House, and degrade this Assembly, which we desire should become a real National Parliament. Set an example to the outside world and our people."
1925 - MA Jinnah

India is the greatest Muslim country in the world.
.
.
.
the North-West Indian Muslims will prove the best defenders of India against a foreign invasion, be that invasion one of ideas or of bayonets.
.
.
The political bondage of India has been and is a source of infinite misery to the whole of Asia. It has suppressed the spirit of the East and wholly deprived her of that joy of self-expression which once made her the creator of a great and glorious culture. We have a duty towards India where we are destined to live and die. We have a duty towards Asia, especially Muslim Asia. And since 70 millions of Muslims in a single country constitute a far more valuable asset to Islam than all the countries of Muslim Asia put together, we must look at the Indian problem not only from the Muslim point of view, but also from the standpoint of the Indian Muslim as such.

-1930 Muhammed Iqbal Presidential Speech

 

[Omar1984]

Even Jnnah was an Indian Muslim. He had Hindu ancestors from Gujarat.

Seems some people also left their Islamic Pakistan for the kaffir Islamophobe West and are preaching their hate from there!

Even the people of Mecca believed in a polythiestic belief like hindusim before Islam. In Islam, it doesnt matter what your ancestors believed in, it matters what you believe in.

And JInnah was born in Karachi and died in Karachi. Karachi was always part of Sindh. All of Sindh is in Pakistan. There are also some people who believe he had Persian ancestry.

 

[EjazR]

"Personally, I would go farther than the demands embodied in it. I would like to see the Punjab, North-West Frontier Province, Sind and Baluchistan amalgamated into a single State. Self-government within the British Empire, or without the British Empire, the formation of a consolidated North-West Indian Muslim State appears to me to be the final destiny of the Muslims, at least of North-West India." Allama Iqbal in 1930

Notice no where in his speech he mentioned the parts of India that you Indian Muslims today say has lots of Muslims.

Allama Iqbal was the first person who thought of a separate state for Muslims, therefore Iqbal is said to have conceived the idea of Pakistan as a separate Muslim homeland. He was the first to introduce the Two nation Theory.

Chaudhry Rahmat Ali combined all these states together, mentioned by Allama Iqbal, and came with the word PAKISTAN (Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, Sindh, and balochisTAN). Chaudhry Rahmat Ali was part of the same Muslim League as Allama Iqbal was part of, they were working together.

Allama Iqbal also said "There is only one way out. Muslims should strengthen Jinnah's hands. They should join the Muslim League. Indian question, as is now being solved, can be countered by our united front against both the Hindus and the English. Without it, our demands are not going to be accepted. People say our demands smack of communalism. This is sheer propaganda. These demands relate to the defense of our national existence.... The united front can be formed under the leadership of the Muslim League. And the Muslim League can succeed only on account of Jinnah. Now none but Jinnah is capable of leading the Muslims."

Muhammad Iqbal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And we all know how badly Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a sovereign independent nation in 1947.

Myths don't become the truth if you keep repeating it. The idea of two nation theory was nowhere on the radar of the Muslim League agenda until the 1940s. Sarvarkar in his book Hindutva was the first person who actually explicitly wrote about the two nation theory intially in the 1920s.

Chaudary Rehmat Ali, who spent almost his entire life and also died in England came up with the name and Pakistan scheme in Cambridge in 1933.

And he wasn't happy at the position that Allama Iqbal took at having autonomous muslim majority states within India. Hence why Allma Iqbal mentions about Rehamt Ali and his Cambridge group as

This scheme originated in Cambridge. The authors of this scheme believe that we Muslim Round Tablers have sacrificed the Muslim nation on the altar of Hindu or the so called Indian Nationalism.

You will be right in saying that Chaudary Rehmat Ali did not consider himself as Indian (although he had Indian ethnicity). This was unlike how Jinnah and Iqbal felt about themselves. For Jinnah atleast till the 1940s

 

[Omar1984]

Be careful because what you are talking includes Allama Iqbal and Jinnah as well

Both Jinnah and Allama Iqbal strongly believed in Two Nation Theory and that Muslims should be united and are different from Hindus. They cared less about the majority hindu population you have in bharat. You indians blame Jinnah for breaking your bharat, which was just a BRITISH india empire.

Thanks to these two men we have an international border between bharat and Pakistan today. I dont think they cared about the vast majority of indians. We did go through the first Indo-Pak war in 1948 with Jinnah's command.

 

[Vinod2070]

Even the people of Mecca believed in a polythiestic belief like hindusim before Islam. In Islam, it doesnt matter what your ancestors believed in, it matters what you believe in.

Your selecting usage of Islam is quite nauseating. Don't cloak your hatred with religion.

And JInnah was born in Karachi and died in Karachi. There are also some people who believe he had Persian ancestry.

Doesn't change the facts. Do some reading rather than speculation.

He was an Indian nationalist for most of his political life. Even as late as 1946, he had accepted the cabinet mission that talked of a single country.

Separate your hatred from facts. They don't go together.

Even we are glad we got rid of people like you. It was well worth it.

 

[Vinod2070]

Both Jinnah and Allama Iqbal strongly believed in Two Nation Theory and that Muslims should be united and are different from Hindus. They cared less about the majority hindu population you have in bharat. You indians blame Jinnah for breaking your bharat, which was just a BRITISH india empire.

Thanks to these two men we have an international border between bharat and Pakistan today. I dont think they cared about the vast majority of indians. We did go through the first Indo-Pak war in 1948 with Jinnah's command.

Ummah proponents like you need to watch some reality.

Frankly, the Arabs, Persians and others who converted you have only contempt for you. Check their comments on forums.

You suffer from a strong sense of identity crisis and I am glad we got rid of you.

 

[EjazR]

Both Jinnah and Allama Iqbal strongly believed in Two Nation Theory and that Muslims should be united and are different from Hindus. They cared less about the majority hindu population you have in bharat. You indians blame Jinnah for breaking your bharat, which was just a BRITISH india empire.

Thanks to these two men we have an international border between bharat and Pakistan today. I dont think they cared about the vast majority of indians. We did go through the first Indo-Pak war in 1948 with Jinnah's command.

Did you even read the quotes that I posted earlier? Believe and "think" what you want but the reality is different.

Personally, if Pakistanis actually followed Iqbal's vision, Pakistan would be doing the opposite of what it was doing today. Just spend some time in reading his 1930 speech. If Iqbal is that important to you, then read his works from the source and not a Pakistanised version of it.

Besides, the point I am making was completely different. When both Allama Iqbal and MA Jinnah were proud to be Indian and Muslim, why should Indian Muslims of today be any less proud? Being an Indian Muslim is not an oxymoron as much as you would like it to be. And building a country around political religious ideology as some have tried in Pakistan will not help.

Its good that there are some people like YLF questioning the need to hold political Islam as the basis of Pakistan. The Two nation theory does not work for a progressive country. Group nationalism based on plurality and multi-faith nationalism or similar aspect will do better in the long term for Pakistan. That's all.

 

[Leader]

Indians themselves have a borrowed identity. India a name give to them by the greeks. Hindu a name given to them by Muslim rulers... !! look who is talking of identity crisis...

 

[Omar1984]

Myths don't become the truth if you keep repeating it. The idea of two nation theory was nowhere on the radar of the Muslim League agenda until the 1940s. Sarvarkar in his book Hindutva was the first person who actually explicitly wrote about the two nation theory intially in the 1920s.

The hindu extremists wanted all Muslims of the subcontinent to go to the Middle East while most Pakistanis were always part of Pak Sarzameen. We were not going to do what hindu extremists told us.

Chaudary Rehmat Ali, who spent almost his entire life and also died in England came up with the name and Pakistan scheme in Cambridge in 1933..

Jinnah and Allama Iqbal also spent most of their lifetime in England. Chaudhry Rahmat Ali was also a member of the Muslim League and a Pakistan activist like Allama Iqbal and Jinnah were.

And he wasn't happy at the position that Allama Iqbal took at having autonomous muslim majority states within India. Hence why Allma Iqbal mentions about Rehamt Ali and his Cambridge group as
You will be right in saying that Chaudary Rehmat Ali did not consider himself as Indian (although he had Indian ethnicity). This was unlike how Jinnah and Iqbal felt about themselves. For Jinnah atleast till the 1940s

Chaudhry Rahmat Ali was a Muslim Punjabi Gujjar. 20% of Pakistan's population are Muslim Punjabi Gujjar. Allama Iqbal was half Kashmiri Muslim and half Punjabi Muslim, Jinnah was born and raised in Karachi, he is full Karachiite. All these people are Pakistanis.

If Iqbal was a proud indian why was he the first to introduce the two nation theory that Muslims of NORTH-WEST (present day Pakistan) should form a separate state. he couldve cared less about present day india. For him the focus was on NORTH-WEST (PAKISTAN), and if Jinnah was a proud indian why did he break your british india akhand bharat dream. Youre delusional bharati muslim.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Indians themselves have a borrowed identity. India a name give to them by the greeks. Hindu a name given to them by Muslim rulers... !! look who is talking of identity crisis...

If a name defined a nation, then Pakistan would be the holiest land on this earth. Just saying

 

[Vinod2070]

Indians themselves have a borrowed identity. India a name give to them by the greeks. Hindu a name given to them by Muslim rulers... !! look who is talking of identity crisis...

Don't get stuck to little things like "names". We have our proud history and our names.

We don't jump around trying to assume the identity of our own invaders and getting only contempt in return.

 

[Leader]

If a name defined a nation, then Pakistan would be the holiest land on this earth. Just saying

many a bharti get furious if called hindu. so how long will this idenity last in a deeply divivded and diverse subcontinent?

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

many a bharti get furious if called hindu. so how long will this idenity last in a deeply divivded and diverse subcontinent?

Some Indians get furious if called Hindu, because we are Indians first and Hindu/Muslim etc second. We don't use religion to divide people and propogate hatred.

 

[EjazR]

Ok Omar1984,

you have no proof that Allama Iqbal talked about the two nation theory as you claim to. And I have given you direct quotes where he refers to himself as well as the people of present day Pakistan as Indians. About how the autonomous states would defend India as loyal citizens if if attacked by Central Asian nations like in the past. This was his vision of autonomous muslim majority states in NW British India.

And please do some research on what was Chaudary Rehmat Ali and his end like. What he thought about Jinnah after Pakistan was created and why he was hounded out of Pakistan and is buried in England today. You will know who is delusional then. You can begin here