Pakistan wants to join NSG, MCTR, Australia group, Wassenaar Arrangement

[muse]

Ashok

It's time to grow up - we must move past these absolutes in international relations when our experience is that all is dynamic -- You will recall that the recent NSG inclusion of language that beneficiaries must sign NPT, is a example of that dynamic , won't you agree?

 

[praful]

It's too dangerous to the whole world that Pakistan have access of sensitive and dangerous nuclear technology. Pakistan should forget about it and should improve the safety of it's stock and get rid of radicalised people from their ranks.

 

[Saifullah Sani]

 

[ashokdeiva]

Ashok

It's time to grow up - we must move past these absolutes in international relations when our experience is that all is dynamic -- You will recall that the recent NSG inclusion of language that beneficiaries must sign NPT, is a example of that dynamic , won't you agree?

yep, I agree. as long as Pakistan is not signing it, we are not willing to sign it thats our Governments stand, we have a 2nd use policy and we stand by it for a very long time. we are not provoking a war in the borders but actions like Parlimentary attacks, 26/11 attacks some times push us to moblise our troops to the border and your military general appears on TV standing before F16 planes loaded with N warheads and declares that he is about to use them if war happens. Make sure that your elected government and military is not ready to aid terror networks against India and we can both Join NPT and NSG simultaniously.

Also I am ready and willing to grow from posts that I read in the PDF but some people go on bashing the INDIAN side and some time they even push people like me to bash the Pakistani side. Hope you understand that its not in my interest to go on a fight. and so is my countries deplomacy

 

[ashokdeiva]

Guys, don't go on a war of words, if you feel someones comment is inviting you for flamebaiting, just report the post and do not argue over it, so i sugest you guys report each other or self delete the posts

 

[muse]

Personally, I think both Pakistan and India should sign NPT -- see the nuclear stuff, for Pakistan and India, is a net loss, in my opinion - yes it gives India status and it is deserved and yes it affords Pakistan a deterrent - but Pakistan and India are locked in a cold war of sorts and all it does is increase insecurity.

I also take your point about India not being provocative and i do agree, however, you know as analyst, people are going by capability, not intention though we can all agree that this methodology is not without it's flaws.

Let me make a better case as to why India should support the case of Pakistan in the NSG --

What is the better option or long term goal - normalcy or increased insecurity? does the competition of insecurity help either India or Pakistan? Let me make the case that India today, along her borders, is not in a secure position and in fact is increasingly insecure -

Should this course be reserved?

If yes, How?

Lets look at the options for India - struggle with Pakistan, Nepal, Bangla, and Lanka and maybe soon with Maldives??? Is this a realistic option? Note a adversary has not even been included?

OR an India which is genuinely thought of as a partner whose input is a must??

And how can this be achieved??

 

[mirage 5000]

sir muse media brainwashed them they think india is something from moon and pakistan is stone age nation .they behave like stupids all time on every issue . pakistan will never ever let nukes to go .i think its now almost impossible for pakistan to even reduce numbers of nukes we need more war heads for future missile and strategic systems .how can we reduce numbers when our second door enemy is building a huge nuclear force .

 

[ashokdeiva]

Personally, I think both Pakistan and India should sign NPT -- see the nuclear stuff, for Pakistan and India, is a net loss, in my opinion - yes it gives India status and it is deserved and yes it affords Pakistan a deterrent - but Pakistan and India are locked in a cold war of sorts and all it does is increase insecurity.

I also take your point about India not being provocative and i do agree, however, you know as analyst, people are going by capability, not intention though we can all agree that this methodology is not without it's flaws.

Let me make a better case as to why India should support the case of Pakistan in the NSG --

What is the better option or long term goal - normalcy or increased insecurity? does the competition of insecurity help either India or Pakistan? Let me make the case that India today, along her borders, is not in a secure position and in fact is increasingly insecure -

Should this course be reserved?

If yes, How?

Lets look at the options for India - struggle with Pakistan, Nepal, Bangla, and Lanka and maybe soon with Maldives??? Is this a realistic option? Note a adversary has not even been included?

OR an India which is genuinely thought of as a partner whose input is a must??

And how can this be achieved??

I agree with your options, but you have to understand that disbelife over the last 60 years on either side can not be resolved over a day, the issue of Kashmir should be kept at the last of the pending issues, unless Pakistan puts the Kashmir issue to the last of the issues to be addressed, its im-practical for the Indian side to progress on a bilatral ties and you know that. if you are willing to improve your own country, you have to have a open arm in friendship but should not wield to your friends need as you have done with the US,
There are a lot in pipeline and we people should be the start for a people to people friendship to improve the belife part accross the border.

 

[ashokdeiva]

sir muse media brainwashed them they think india is something from moon and pakistan is stone age nation .they behave like stupids all time on every issue . pakistan will never ever let nukes to go .i think its now almost impossible for pakistan to even reduce numbers of nukes we need more war heads for future missile and strategic systems .how can we reduce numbers when our second door enemy is building a huge nuclear force .

You have to watch the movie "SUM OF ALL FEARS", if you have not, kindly watch and suggest me if you want such a scenario to happen in our countries too.
you knew that there are radical elements that are willing to destroy either side and you are talking as if you are one among them. be better than them is my suggestion

 

[praful]

Personally, I think both Pakistan and India should sign NPT -- see the nuclear stuff, for Pakistan and India, is a net loss, in my opinion - yes it gives India status and it is deserved and yes it affords Pakistan a deterrent - but Pakistan and India are locked in a cold war of sorts and all it does is increase insecurity.

India can't sign not beacuse of Pakistan but it is discriminatory in nature. u also forget to take china into consideration

I also take your point about India not being provocative and i do agree, however, you know as analyst, people are going by capability, not intention though we can all agree that this methodology is not without it's flaws.

Let me make a better case as to why India should support the case of Pakistan in the NSG --

What is the better option or long term goal - normalcy or increased insecurity? does the competition of insecurity help either India or Pakistan? Let me make the case that India today, along her borders, is not in a secure position and in fact is increasingly insecure -

Should this course be reserved?

If yes, How?

Lets look at the options for India - struggle with Pakistan, Nepal, Bangla, and Lanka and maybe soon with Maldives??? Is this a realistic option? Note a adversary has not even been included?

OR an India which is genuinely thought of as a partner whose input is a must??

And how can this be achieved??

Why we support the pakistan for NSG so that they can be able to produce more weapons ? Highly anti Indian people are there in your security forces from top to bottom. This angle cannot be neglected. pakistan has the history of back stabbing. It is not only about India but about the security of whole world, How can u guarantee that there is no more AQ Khan in your ranks. Notoriety of ISI is well known. And who made u beleive that nepal, Bhutan, sri lanka and Bangla are anti india. we may have some differeneces over some pretty issues but overall we have good relations. presently pakistan is the epicenter of terrorism, world can't ignore the facts.

 

[muse]

Come on now, we are going for arguments based on movies?? Watch "Swordfish"

Look, Mirage's point is not without merit - consider, we all think that the media are "objective" nothing could be further from the truth - when a great paper like the NYT also doubles as the mouthpiece of US intelligence community "official "renegades, well, we should trust our own experience more -

And I do agree witrh Mirage that going by the kinds of things some Indians write, makes many Pakistanis think that Indians inhabit some other reality - while Indians point to problems that Pakistanis like myself highlight in society, if I were to do the same thing for problems in Indian society, some Indians would say that I was bashing India or that I was being unfair - that the bad news in not the totality - and that's really all Mirage is arguing.

 

[muse]

Praful

I think all readers would appreciate your solutions to the following:

What is the better option or long term goal - normalcy or increased insecurity? does the competition of insecurity help either India or Pakistan? Let me make the case that India today, along her borders, is not in a secure position and in fact is increasingly insecure -

Should this course be reserved?

If yes, How?

Lets look at the options for India - struggle with Pakistan, Nepal, Bangla, and Lanka and maybe soon with Maldives??? Is this a realistic option? Note a adversary has not even been included?

OR an India which is genuinely thought of as a partner whose input is a must??

And how can this be achieved??

Please be specific, so we can correct ourselves

 

[mirage 5000]

You have to watch the movie "SUM OF ALL FEARS", if you have not, kindly watch and suggest me if you want such a scenario to happen in our countries too.
you knew that there are radical elements that are willing to destroy either side and you are talking as if you are one among them. be better than them is my suggestion

radicals will take nukes is theory made by india USA for push pakisan aside nukes are not lollypop on street a best force secure them since 1984 till today they are very well trained and professional on there job . indians should worry abut there own nukes and US should there nukes we work on nukes since 1974 and our nuclear command and control system is better then many (even US accept it )

 

[ashokdeiva]

Come on now, we are going for arguments based on movies?? Watch "Swordfish"

Look, Mirage's point is not without merit - consider, we all think that the media are "objective" nothing could be further from the truth - when a great paper like the NYT also doubles as the mouthpiece of US intelligence community "official "renegades, well, we should trust our own experience more -

And I do agree witrh Mirage that going by the kinds of things some Indians write, makes many Pakistanis think that Indians inhabit some other reality - while Indians point to problems that Pakistanis like myself highlight in society, if I were to do the same thing for problems in Indian society, some Indians would say that I was bashing India or that I was being unfair - that the bad news in not the totality - and that's really all Mirage is arguing.

To be open on my end, I have a policy that if I have some thing wrong and my neighbour says that i have some thing wrong in me, i will not fight with him for pointing at my weekness rather I accept that as my fault and start working on how to elimate the bad thing in me. it seems that Pakistani's who suggest that do not point at my situation suggest that you can be easily manipulated with your emotions.
Control your emotions and then see the growth that your country will get. its inteligences that brings us to the forefront and not emotions. Emotions will make you weak and vulnerable.

 

[ashokdeiva]

radicals will take nukes is theory made by india USA for push pakisan aside nukes are not lollypop on street a best force secure them since 1984 till today they are very well trained and professional on there job . indians should worry abut there own nukes and US should there nukes we work on nukes since 1974 and our nuclear command and control system is better then many (even US accept it )

if so, why is every one raising concerns on your nuclear assets