Pakistan Wants 'Battlefield' Nukes, against Indian Troops

[GORKHALI]

pakistan just doesnt want, we have operational SRBMs and BRBMs in our inventory. This official's analysis is outdated.


this is MLRS not Battle Range Ballestic Missile (BRBM). However u do have BRBMs but this is not the one.

Think before posting.

 

[janon]

The primary purpose of TNW are to be used in Barren desert lands of Thar not to be used in fertile lands of Punjab or to poison water supply of Kashmir region.

If you and I are aware of this, then I am sure that the Indian war planners will be aware of this as well. That is precisely why rapid mobility is being emphasized in the plains of Punjab and the mountains of Kashmir, not to mention airlift capability on a scale never enjoyed before. That is also why the Indian army is making a major revamping of force structure to inclde helicopters in the troop carrying and firepower roles. The mountain strike corps being raised, with integral heliborne elements, is clearly dual tasked to mount offensive operations against China or Pak as necessary - hence their location at a very strategic spot in terms of railway connectivity. That is an entire corps designed for rapid offence through mountains. If India attacks Pakistan, it will not do so in a manner designed to oblige Pakistan's Nasr firers.

 

[Mrc]

@janon & @The Deterrent : thanks for contributing something to this thread.

Ok, Now for the rest of the Pakistani posters, let me clear something.

You are planning to respond to Indian Army's IBG intrusion by Nasr ? And you are expecting to bring India to bargaining table due to world pressure ?? Am I right till here ??

Now let's check the theory. If and when an Indian IBG rolls into a strategic location beyond LOC/IB the PA will retaliate with TNW as conventionally they would not be able to defeat them. The TNW will halt the IBGs progress but will result in something completely counter productive - Complete Annihilation through Indian High Yield Warheads.

Now I know few kids will be jumping in their pajams to type "You Hindus feel we are fools to launch just 1 Nasr !! <Insert appropriate Islamic verse > We will launch all our missile and kill all hindus !!". But just by doing this you have just nullified the use and rationale of such a weapon.

The TNWs where created to be used and not have full blown retaliation in return. But Indian NFU clearly states that ,forget nuclear, even the use of Chemical and Biological can also be warranted as reason for full blown retaliation. This in itself leaves the TNWs rationale worthless. Note:- TNWs are not worthless but their rationale is. So if you wanna use nuclear weapons then use all of them or don't use them at all. Bcoz even if one group of TELs or SSBN survives, they will unload their full load on you. We may die an instant death, but the remaining nuclear assets make sure that the enemy dies a slower much more painful death.

One more thing to consider. Battlefield nuclear weapons require local commanders to have authority and capability to arm and launch nuclear weapons. Hence the deployment of tactical nuclear weapons may lead to loosening the highly centralized command and control mechanism. This raises the risk of unauthorized use during a crisis or inadvertent escalation during a conventional conflict by a local commander of a nuclear-armed unit who might feel it necessary to use the weapons in order to avoid defeat. A positive sign is that Pakistan has not deployed the weapons in forward positions yet and has not delegated the authority to local commanders.

Pakistan is Learning the Wrong Lesson: Tactical Nuclear Weapons in South Asia

I m sure pakistanis are aware of indian NFU. This not cold war and this not europe...same weapon can be used with a different strategy.. a strategy which may nullify a very public NFU that you guys have...is that so difficult to comprehend??

With whole world screaming that even a single use ( like envisioned by americans in europe.. still is) will result in full blown retaliation.. pakistanis are still expanding on TNWs ...can there be a different strategy involved?? Thats too difficult for some to comprehend...i guess

 

[Bratva]

See, that's where I explained your cognitive bias earlier. You are dismissing all other data that don't fit your preconceived ideas. You are only giving importance to the exercises held in Rajasthan, to fit in with your theory that India's IBGs will attack from Rajastan. The very idea of IBGs is to attack Pakistan from eight different axes.

BTW, exercise Vijayee Bhava started and ended in 2011:

Press Information Bureau English Releases.

My cognitive bias is based on usage of TNW. When Indians say They will be used in Punjab and Kashmir regions. I laugh at such theories because Punjab and kashmir based regions are already covered through conventional means and corps of such regions practiced and integrated rapid mobilization concepts through Azm e nau 1, 2, 3,4 beginning from 2010 .

And you haven't dismissed my notion that No other corps of IA has put as much emphasis on rapid mobilization as much as Rajasthan corps so much so they practiced it in various form from 2011-2014

So dismissing all the data is w.r.t to usage and non-usage of NASR in Densely vs thinly defended regions. We can't engage enemy in 1:1 in all 3 fronts of Punjab kashmir and Thar region simultaneously (or as you say 8 axes of IA). NASR took care of Thar region.

Think before posting.

Has Indian Army inducted this missile yet ?

If you and I are aware of this, then I am sure that the Indian war planners will be aware of this as well. That is precisely why rapid mobility is being emphasized in the plains of Punjab and the mountains of Kashmir, not to mention airlift capability on a scale never enjoyed before. That is also why the Indian army is making a major revamping of force structure to inclde helicopters in the troop carrying and firepower roles. The mountain strike corps being raised, with integral heliborne elements, is clearly dual tasked to mount offensive operations against China or Pak as necessary - hence their location at a very strategic spot in terms of railway connectivity. That is an entire corps designed for rapid offence through mountains. If India attacks Pakistan, it will not do so in a manner designed to oblige Pakistan's Nasr firers.

Which more or less what I'm saying. NASR is not a magic bullet to be fired at Rapid mobilization and surprise thrust of Indian army in any region we like . It's existence is to cater a specific threat from a specific region. It's just gullible indians fantasy we will use it in Punjab or Kashmir region

 

[janon]

a strategy which may nullify a very public NFU that you guys have

How will Pakistan using a nuke first nullify India's "No first use policy"? You do know what NFU is, right?

 

[GORKHALI]

My cognitive bias is based on usage of TNW. When Indians say They will be used in Punjab and Kashmir regions. I laugh at such theories because Punjab and kashmir based regions are already covered through conventional means and corps of such regions practiced and integrated rapid mobilization concepts through Azm e nau 1, 2, 3,4 beginning from 2010 .

And you haven't dismissed my notion that No other corps of IA has put as much emphasis on rapid mobilization as much as Rajasthan corps so much so they practiced it in various form from 2011-2014

So dismissing all the data is w.r.t to usage and non-usage of NASR in Densely vs thinly defended regions. We can't engage enemy in 1:1 in all 3 fronts of Punjab kashmir and Thar region simultaneously (or as you say 8 axes of IA). NASR took care of Thar region.




Has Indian Army inducted this missile yet ?



Which more or less what I'm saying. NASR is not a magic bullet to be fired at Rapid mobilization and surprise thrust of Indian army in any region we like . It's existence is to cater a specific threat from a specific region. It's just gullible indians fantasy we will use it in Punjab or Kashmir region

Well we don't induct everything ,this is export version of Prahaar. If IA want it in now they can get 2-3 batteries in no time as this a spinoff from AAD missile.

 

[janon]

Which more or less what I'm saying. NASR is not a magic bullet to be fired at Rapid mobilization and surprise thrust of Indian army in any region we like . It's existence is to cater a specific threat from a specific region. It's just gullible indians fantasy we will use it in Punjab or Kashmir region

Well then, you ought to tell this to most other Pakistani posters who clearly think that Nasr is a silver bullet against any crossing of the border by India. If it is meant as a response to a specific threat (massed concentration of armour in the unpopulated Thar desert), then IA will take that into account, and either attack at a different place, or attack in a manner that makes the use of a nuke meaningless. (By dispersing forces sufficiently, and ensuring that they are near population centers or fertile land.)

It is Pakistanis who are assuming that India's new doctrine (whether or not it is cold start, which might not even be the case) is the same as the Sunderji doctrine of massive armoured thrusts. Nukes would have worked against the Sunderji doctrine, which is precisely why it has been discarded in favour of smaller fighting units with more mobility and firepower. (IBGs and other brigade sized groups, as opposed to division and corp sized ones.)

When Paksitanis here salivate about obliterating Indian armoured thrusts, they are actually thinking of the Sunderji doctrine, not the current plans.

 

[kṣamā]

I m sure pakistanis are aware of indian NFU. This not cold war and this not europe...same weapon can be used with a different strategy.. a strategy which may nullify a very public NFU that you guys have...is that so difficult to comprehend??

Sir it looks like many of us here is missing the elephant in the room. Then why don't you shed some light ?? Now please donn back track saying that there is some super secret strategy.. Please explain a hypothetical strategy which can ,albeit in theory, render Indian NFU useless.

If I am not wrong, art of war has not changed for thousands of years, just means of war and the battlefield have changed. I hope you guys are not going to make a public monument out of your nukes !! The sole purpose of their existence is either for deterrence and usage. If that is the strategy then we too have them with better ways to deliver.

With whole world screaming that even a single use ( like envisioned by americans in europe.. still is) will result in full blown retaliation.. pakistanis are still expanding on TNWs ...can there be a different strategy involved?? Thats too difficult for some to comprehend...i gues

Well then we all know the answer to that. As David Boswell said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing year after year and expecting different results"

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Think before posting.

Do u even know what im saying kiddo?

 

[Mrc]

Sir it looks like many of us here is missing the elephant in the room. Then why don't you shed some light ?? Now please donn back track saying that there is some super secret strategy.. Please explain a hypothetical strategy which can ,albeit in theory, render Indian NFU useless.

If I am not wrong, art of war has not changed for thousands of years, just means of war and the battlefield have changed. I hope you guys are not going to make a public monument out of your nukes !! The sole purpose of their existence is either for deterrence and usage. If that is the strategy then we too have them with better ways to deliver.

Well then we all know the answer to that. As David Boswell said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing year after year and expecting different results"

Elephant in room is simple these weapons are arming long rang3 cruise missiles...

They have built 4 new plotonium based nuclear plants enough to build 100 of these TNW per year...
How many do you think will be needed on nasr for your battle groups?? Where are rest of these TNW going??

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Subject here is tactical nukes.... being made by Pakistan!
It is a technology, which no other country have and the news is being leaked by highest US authorities.

If Hindus and their allies trust wikileaks so much, then no reason... why they shouldn't trust this one.

Technically the small KT weapons we tested are a much better indication that India is more mature in developing them. Plus tactical, battlefield nuke weapons are not new.

is that nuclear capable? i really doubt..



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its Quasi

If you dare to use a nuclear weapon buddy, the response won't be subtle. We'll probably forget our missiles and strap a whole load of megatons on this. And yes....ours is bigger than yours. It will start with Nasr and end with something else.

 

[Mrc]

No one can come out alive from this war if it happens....no win win situation...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

If you dare to use a nuclear weapon buddy, the response won't be subtle. We'll probably forget our missiles and strap a whole load of megatons on this

unfortunately after a nuclear war the entire region will be a quiet neighbourhood for a long time...

And yes....ours is bigger than yours. It will start with Nasr and end with something else.

No ours surely is:

BBC News - Condoms 'too big' for Indian men


As for Nasr... its a tactical nuke... and if starts... than kid.. trust me.. you wont live to see another day..

 

[kṣamā]

Elephant in room is simple these weapons are arming long rang3 cruise missiles...

So buddy what you are saying is Pakistan is arming it's multi million dollar long range systems with these sub kilo ton nukes ??? Man that would be the darnest thing I have ever heard !! But why ?? If you are going to use a heavy lift vehicle with questionable CEP at it's best then use a heavy a$$ nuke with at-least few hundred kiloton yield. Why bother making smaller ones ?? It's not that you have perfected MIRV ( If you are going to refute this the provide video proof or it dinn happen), how are you going to use multiple TNWs per missile ??

They have built 4 new plotonium based nuclear plants enough to build 100 of these TNW per year...
How many do you think will be needed on nasr for your battle groups?? Where are rest of these TNW going??

I would like to get a source for "100 of these TNW per year...". Show us how the math adds up.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

unfortunately after a nuclear war the entire region will be a quiet neighbourhood for a long time...






No ours surely is:

BBC News - Condoms 'too big' for Indian men


As for Nasr... its a tactical nuke... and if starts... than kid.. trust me.. you wont live to see another day..

You may not want to go into a nuclear war basis some silly BBC report. And the neighborhood will be far quieter on that side of the border than this side, I can assure you. A single nuke on our side, we will wipe you out completely- make no mistakes KID. You play with tactical nukes, we rain thermo-nukes.