@Osiris,
Praveen Swami
DRASS, Aug. 10
PAKISTAN soldiers perched at peak 5,353 metres, on the strategic Marpo La Ridge had a grandstand view of this year's Vijay Diwas celebrations, marking the official end of the Kargil war. At least some of them must had wry smiles on their faces, for although peak 5,353 metres is inside the Indian side of the Line of Control (LoC), Pakistani troops held the mountain through the Kargil war and continue to do so today.
Completely untrue as far as Google Maps is concerned!!Such a big mistake right at the beginning, ain't looking that well but let's continue.
An entirely false statement based on misplaced assumptions and a total lack of geographical sense!!I bet he had never visited the area ever before he chose to vomit up this 'masterpiece'!!Meanwhile, according to the officials posted there, guys who have actually been there and know their stuffs, the stretch of the NH1A that is visible from the 5353 is no more than a mere 500 meters at best case scenario, on a clear sunny day!!Artillery observers on peak 5,353 metres can direct accurate artillery fire on to up to 20 km of the National Highway 1A,
And it makes perfect sense actually if you think about it, why else do you think your soldiers needed to actually cross the LC and occupy vacant Indian posts atop the Tololing and Tiger Hill and other nearby ridge lines if their position on the mythical be all end all 5353 offered them with such level of tactical dominance??The answer is simple - the position simply does not offer that level of observation!!And also because point 5353 sits almost 12 kilometers away from the NH1A.Like I said, good luck spotting anything from up there, let alone passing on firing solutions of any value.
Oh and by the way, alternate lines of communication have already been completed and more are under works.Like I said, in the end, it was all for nothing, point 5353 is not at all strategically significant as far as blocking the highway is concerned.Now go suck your thumb kiddo.
Yeah, only to get your entire Neelum valley bombed into swiss cheese like we did back in the late 90s, lolzz. What do you really think we would do, just sit back and watch??And do remember this, just like you have point 5353, we have point 5608, the tallest peak in that region from where we can block the Palawar- Bunyal road pretty much at our will.and cripple Indian defensive positions from Mushkoh to Bhimbet.
And in any case, if the guys sitting atop 5353 tries to but even move a finger our boys from nearby peaks can send them to oblivion by calling in artillery strikes right on their heads.
If the hostilities had been ceased by that point, then how come the operations were still ongoing??Makes no sense.Indian troops are being forced to compensate for this tactical blunder by engaging in a series of operations in the Batalik sector.
There is nothing remotely dubious or mysterious about the operations undertaken by the Indian Army higher ups in that region nor is there anything suspicious about the statements they issued afterwards!!This is how the events unfolded in the following chronological order -Pakistani occupation of point 5353 means Operation Vijay's core objective in Drass, securing the highway, in effect failed. Officials in New Delhi attempt to argue that point 5353 is in an ambiguous location on the Line of Control, and that there are two peaks of the same height which are being confused, claims debunked by copies of the Army's own maps which are in Business Line's possession.
First, you guys occupied the ridges overlooking NH1A including 5353 (west of LC), Tololing and the Tiger Hill.
Then the Indian Army determines to kick you out of the tololing and tiger hill as they posed a far more direct and credible threat to the Dras sector.
After that they did a threat assessment and decided against a direct assault against the 5353 as the climb was deemed too difficult and the risk being not worth any potential gains and therefore, decided to do a reverse Kargil and captured a couple of peaks by crossing the LC, namely p 4875 and p 4251 right before the ceasefire in august 1999.
Then these two were later returned to Pakistan during negotiations in exchange for 5353 and 5240 being vacated and both armies retreating back to their prewar positions.
Then, in october 1999, admittedly we made a dick move (can't really blame them given you guys are no less dicky yourselves)and decided to ciolate the "gentemen's words to occupy the now vacant 5353 and 5240.It was determined that both peaks would have to be taken simultaneously but the operation didn't go as planned for while the grenadiers did take the 5240,the Gurkha unit which was tasked with occupying that 5353 failed in their task and then you guys consolidated on that hilltop.Point 5165 was also occupied by the elements of Indian 8th mountain division during this time.
After that, no attempts were made to capture the peak since the risk was just too high for any potential gains, which would have been paltry at best.
So instead, we crossed the LC again and occupied a number of peaks on the Pakistani side, those being
1. Point 5608, the highest one in this region, which overlooks the strategic Palawar- Bunyal road.
2. Point 5130 was ceased in April the following year which brought the entire Kabutar bowl under our direct line of sight, which by the way, happens to be the only supply route for your precious 5353!!
3. point 5070 was occupied sometimes in the next month, which turned the flanks of the **** positions opposite Dras.
So for a measly peak inside your territory, you lost at least three vital peaks in the vicinity with far more strategic and tactical significance that will have disastrous consequences for your side if and when you decide to do something funny again.
(typical indian government's twist to make a fool out of its own people)
That's more of a pakistani specialty, not ours.We'll come to that later.
It's funny how you always try to dodge the fact that India never occupied 5353 or how it was not even in the Indian side to begin with since it will strip you off of your only semblance of some achievement (however misplaced and false) in this whole fiasco.Point 5353, like the features around it, had been occupied by Pakistani troops at the start of the Kargil war. Indian soldiers, however, were nowhere near its summit when hostilities were pronounced to have ended. All that had been achieved was the occupation of two secondary positions on the Marpo La ridge line, Charlie 6 and Charlie 7. (Yeah, you only managed to secure 2 pathetic little posts after sacrificing 30000 of your lives)
Like I previously said, why stop at 30 thousand, why not make it 30 millions or even trillions??!!After all one need not pay fines for being imaginative (or a moron!), let your stupidity er... your imagination fly!!Yeah, you only managed to secure 2 pathetic little posts after sacrificing 30000 of your lives)
In truth, Indian losses were no more than 650 KIA at most during the entire period of the confrontation.We're not the ISPR, we don't feel the need to disown our dead, wish I could say the same about you folks.
And then he has a sudden change of heart and decides to write this in the very same article -Pakistani troops also remained on point 5240, some 1,200 metres as the crow flies from point 5353.
"When Pakistani troops detected the Indian presence on 5240, they promptly launched a counter assault on 5353."
56 Brigade Commander Amar Aul, in charge of the operations to secure point 5353, responded by occupying two heights on the Pakistani side of the LoC, 4875 and 4251, just before the ceasefire came into force. (big deal, point 5353 directed artillery can take out those posts at will, they are at our mercy).
Don't get it??No problem, I'll explain it to you shortly but first let me just savor this galactic level of stupidity of yours!!
And there's your explanation, the one I promised.As you can see, you are already too late for what you said you would do.Com. Aul's tactics, evidently under political pressure to bring about as quick an end to hostilities as possible, were designed to secure a subsequent territorial exchange. In mid-August, 1999, his efforts to bring about a deal bore fruit. Extended negotiations between the Brigadier and a Pakistani interlocutor, who called himself Colonel Saqlain, led to both sides committing themselves to leave points 5353, 5240, 4251 and 4875 unoccupied.
Tell me, does your stupidity come naturally or do you have to train for it like 10 hours a day for 365 days a year??!!I'm really confused at this point.Don't you realize that you guys had to vacant strategically more important positions like 5353 and 5240 as well??!!Both Indian and Pakistani troops were now pulled back to their pre-Kargil position, leaving an arial distance of about a kilometre between the armies along most of the Marpo La ridge. The deal wasn't ideal, for point 5353 was of enormously more strategic importance to India than either 4251 or 4875 were for Pakistan, but it was better than nothing. (So you geniuses event emptied whatever little you had gained, morons! )
By the way, it's called strategic maneuvering you dolt!!By ceasing those 'insignificant, puny little' peaks as you describe them, Indian Army made sure that pakistan would be forced to come to the negotiation table, which they did!!And by returning those peaks, we made you guys vacant the 5240 and 5353 without having to move a finger!!They were simply setting you up for your blunders, they were just keeping their faith in your innate tunnel vision and lack of foresight and just they thought, you made a series of blunders.Don't you get it, well don't you worry, I'm here to explain it all to your sorry self.Stay tuned.
Once you guys had vacated the peaks, our boys occupied 5240, which led you into a frenzy and you guys promptly occupied the 5353 as a knee-jerk reaction just as they had thought, and you directed all your efforts and your energy into fortifying that useless peak without ever thinking about securing your flanks or rear!!
This in-turn enabled us to cease vital peaks like 5070 and 5310 unopposed, inside your territory which has since left your position atop the 5353 vulnerable as the rear areas!!The worst case of tunnel vision and lack of foresight at display here and yet you didn't learn anything from this mistake, as evidenced by your comments.So sad.
Parh liya, zara khud bhi parh leta toh khudka aisa popat nehi bana leta.owards the end of October, things began to go horribly wrong. Commander Aul tasked the 16 Grenadiers to take point 5240 and the 1-3 Gurkha Rifles to occupy 5353, choosing to violate the August agreement rather than risk the prospect that Pakistan might reoccupy these positions again. While the 16 Grenadiers attack proceeded as planned, despite bad weather, the 1-3 Gurkha Rifles, for reasons which are still not clear, never made their way up 5353. When Pakistani troops detected the Indian presence on 52 40, they promptly launched a counter assault on 5353. Seven days later, in early November, the Grenadiers unit on 5240 watched Pakistan take up positions on the more important peak. (bas, parh liya? ab shup kar kay bsith jao).
Nope, it's called risk assessment and the risk was deemed to be far higher than any potential gains on the ground, so our army top brass decided not to go ahead with the operation, that's all.But don't you worry, our boys occupied a lot of the other peaks, in the vicinity, in your side of the LOC, inside Azad Kashmir!!pakistan moved rapidly to consolidate its position on 5353. Concrete bunkers came up on the peak, and a road was constructed to the base of the peak from Benazir Post, Pakistan's most important permanent position in the area. In the meanwhile, Commander Aul considered plans to retake the peak. He didn't have much choice. India's positions on 5240 were under threat, along with positions of the 2 Naga in Mushkoh, the 2 Grenadiers in Drass, and the 8 Sikh in Bhimbet. (yeah, they are at our mercy like sitting ducks) Offensives were discussed in January and February this year, and again in May and August, but had to be abandoned each time because of the risks involved. (in other words, you cowards CHICKENED OUT)!
Now suck on that kid.
Well, if you insist, let me give you my thoughts about 1965 and pay attention cause I'm gonna say it only once.Here goes - "A strategy which doesn't take enemy's response into account is not a strategy but a mere wishful thinking"!!I don't know who said that but it fits the then pakistani decision makers quite well.Militarily, it was a defeat for Pakistan as they failed to take their stated objectives while the Indians achieved all of theirs and was at a far more advantageous position at the end of the hostilities.And I find it interesting gust you didn't mention 1965
Nope, because it's completely irrelevant to our topic at hand.By the way, I didn't mention 48 or 71 or Siachen either, guess you failed to take note of that....is it because the problems you face today in kashmir started with that war?
Well, a commie or not, the writer is completely uninformed and quite confused about the prevailing geo political situation of that region and makes plenty of contradictory claims.For example, at one point he claims (mistakenly) the point 5240 in **** hands only to claim the opposite later!!This doesn't really incite much confidence about his credibility.Now, lemme guess, the writer is a communist and anti government against bjp congressi, right?
Let the words of a PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT provide you with the wisdom you need so that you can finally wake up from your deep slumber -@Omega007FACE IT...YOU LOST IN KARGIL!!!
Kargil war was a total disaster, claims Gen Majeed Malik
By the way,Mr. @GumNaam , this very writer, this Swami guy, the one you are putting so much faith on had this to say about this whole sh!t show in a later article -
"When Operation Parakram began a little over three years ago, both the Indian Army and the Pakistan Army began trading ferocious artillery fire up and down the LoC. In the high mountains, sudden winds and unpredictable atmospheric conditions ensure that shells rarely land where gunners intend them to. But, with a direct line of observation available to them, the Pakistani forces on Point 5353 should have been able to pass on corrections that would have enabled their artillery to obliterate Sando Top. If, that is, the Pakistani troops on Point 5353 had been given the chance. Indian soldiers on three posts, namely Point 5165, Point 5240 and Point 5100, guided their superior 155-millimetre Bofors howitzers with devastating accuracy. Pakistani troops on Point 5353 were first hit with smoke-filled mortar shells, to flush them out of their bunkers, and then with air-burst artillery, which showered down shards of metal at great speed. Well over 40 Pakistanis are believed to have died on Point 5353. Pakistan could not reinforce the troops since the Indian soldiers on Point 5165 and Point 5240 were in a position to hit their supply lines."
http://www.thehindu.com/2004/03/10/stories/2004031001731200.htm
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