Pakistan-US hold consultations over strategic defence dialogue: ISPR

[vi-va]

jealous that Pakistan is mtg with someone else? Beijing is so insecure!

Insecure? No. Who doesn't want more friends, more national security?
Beijing got developed under great pressure in past 7 decades. We never bet on west.
India on the other hand, a lame duck, many countries provided aids, such as USSR, and US today.
But nothing comes free, India never win her position hard, slip into the western trap.

I as an ordinary Chinese, can clearly see India as an extension of western power, instead of an independent great power.

I can predict India has no future. The last thing west need is another China. India basically has lost the chance to survive.

 

[Rank]

I am completely failed to understand Pakistan's and US relations since day one. Pakistan and US relations CAN'T and shouldn't be.

Pakistan against India in Afghanistan where as US Supporting India in Afghanistan.
India is using Afghan soil against Pakistan and its an open secret. Americans are well aware about this but not doing anything from last 15 years.
India is directly involved in Afghan Govt and leading NDS ops under the U.S nose against Pakistan. What Americans are doing there?
Why there is no comprehensive BSF deployment on the Afghan side of the border?

what kind of similar objectives we have with Americans? care to elaborate this...

 

[HRK]

what is that?

official record of all the economic & military aid from USA to all the countries

 

[Ali_Baba]

The tragetory of Pakistan - USA relations are very well known. Downwards and negative.

They can get together from time to time and talk shit like they are now, and nothing needs to come of it. Dance the dance, but don't get involved, dont promise anything or commit anything.

You only have to look at the number of Indians Biden has promoted into his goverment to understand that P akistan and USA relations will never recover, and Pakistan should not pretend otherwise.

USA can "say" what ever it wants, but you have to look at their actions and see the negative impact of those actions against Pakistan to see that the two now have different destinys, with no common shared values, no common interests, or no common ideals.

So dance, and then go home and forget about it ...

 

[Crystal-Clear]

LOL. I thought US is India new boy friend after USSR, no?

putting pressure on india to side with them or they will side with us.

 

[Ocelot]

Yeah sure. Thank you for the chuckle.

 

[vi-va]

putting pressure on india to side with them or they will side with us.

Putting pressure? yes.
Side with Pakistan? no.

In any case, US still get more from India market, weapons sale, IT service, finance. Not to mention geopolitics.

India knew it well, India is in a not bad position for negotiation.

 

[Ali_Baba]

The tragetory of Pakistan - USA relations are very well known. Downwards and negative.

They can get together from time to time and talk shit like they are now, and nothing needs to come of it. Dance the dance, but don't get involved, dont promise anything or commit anything.

You only have to look at the number of Indians Biden has promoted into his goverment to understand that P akistan and USA relations will never recover, and Pakistan should not pretend otherwise.

USA can "say" what ever it wants, but you have to look at their actions and see the negative impact of those actions against Pakistan to see that the two now have different destinys, with no common shared values, no common interests, or no common ideals.

So dance, and then go home and forget about it ...

 

[Ali_Baba]

Is PAF about to make a major purchase from China, and are the American's here to provide "siren cries" to take Pakistan off the right path and further delay the modernisation of the PAF as they have been for the last decade ??

Something is up, for sure....

 

[Thamizh Puli]

Insecure? No. Who doesn't want more friends, more national security?
Beijing got developed under great pressure in past 7 decades. We never bet on west.
India on the other hand, a lame duck, many countries provided aids, such as USSR, and US today.
But nothing comes free, India never win her position hard, slip into the western trap.

I as an ordinary Chinese, can clearly see India as an extension of western power, instead of an independent great power.

I can predict India has no future. The last thing west need is another China. India basically has lost the chance to surv

Insecure? No. Who doesn't want more friends, more national security?
Beijing got developed under great pressure in past 7 decades. We never bet on west.
India on the other hand, a lame duck, many countries provided aids, such as USSR, and US today.
But nothing comes free, India never win her position hard, slip into the western trap.

I as an ordinary Chinese, can clearly see India as an extension of western power, instead of an independent great power.

I can predict India has no future. The last thing west need is another China. India basically has lost the chance to survive.

Don't get too worked up, good for you if you believe you have developed. Just make sure Walmart and others keep ordering from you. And please, stop stealing IP.As an ordinary Chinese citizen you are of course allowed to see miseries of India. How else do the ccp goons keep contended and happy stables? If you are not contended and happy, you may also burst out one day like Jack Ma did!

As to India, let me put it gently : if they have to survive and be stabled like the Chinese, they'd rather not live hat way. There's too much humanity in their minds.

 

[vi-va]

Don't get too worked up, good for you if you believe you have developed. Just make sure Walmart and others keep ordering from you. And please, stop stealing IP.As an ordinary Chinese citizen you are of course allowed to see miseries of India. How else do the ccp goons keep contended and happy stables? If you are not contended and happy, you may also burst out one day like Jack Ma did!

As to India, let me put it gently : if they have to survive and be stabled like the Chinese, they'd rather not live hat way. There's too much humanity in their minds.

What IP? IP is nonsense. The strong one write the rule, the weak one follows. There is no IP in human history until recently. It's just part of rule wrote by western countries to keep exploit developing countries. And by the way, China paid hundreds of billions every year for IPs, more than ten times more than India. The IPs stealing are just fabricated. Such a fool.

CCP get China developed, prosperous, nothing wrong. Indians want CCP to bring prosperity, just India leaders incapable to deliver, incompetent at least. The MPs of India are basically criminals, stealing money, corrupted, lack of accountabilities.

The whole India society is dysfunctional, disordered, chaotic.

India ruled by Muslim, British for thousand years, whom to blame? Indians or invaders? Not Chinese. India culture is the most confusing, and disordered.

India has no history recorded, excepted records from Chinese travelers. Who to blame?

Read some history, genuine one. Not fabricated ones on the media, to cover up India's own mistakes on foreign policy. Search "Forward Policy", who is more aggressive from 1959 - 1962. Who backstabbed China?

Your leaders made mistakes on foreign policies, they retired and enjoyed good life, your people suffered, hundreds of millions of them.

I don't expect India so called intellectuals self-exam. That's not Indianess.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Every new US president, in his first tenure, must start a new war in a poor and preferably Muslim majority country to inspire the military-industrial complex to finance his next win and in the process keep dumb Americans safe from the hunger and disease of millions of poor and innocent people killed by the "Fog of war"

 

[Yasser76]

We are living in very fascinating times, and a time of immense change in terms of the world's economy, technology and military power. As as we know Pak Armed forces, and especially the PAF, have sworn by US military technology. It gave our smaller forces an advantge over a larger India equipped with mainly Soviet and European weapons and it often came free or highly subsidised. This has been case for last 70 years.

Now US weapons and tech are still the the best in the world. F-35, Aegis ships etc

This is now changing and the world is changing rapidly. Something that I think Pak Mil realised about 10 years ago. We still have the option to buy P-8, more F-16s or pay our own money for AH-1Zs.

We chose not to for a very good reason and bought Chinese tech, which was not as advanced but came free of strings and could be bought in more numbers.

Now here is the crux of the matter. In 20 year or maybe even much sooner. US Weapons technology may no longer be the best in the world. Already US has admitted China is ahead in areas like missiles, EW etc

The generation after F-35, F-22, J-20 and FC-31 will be where China will surpass US and Europe. by a very very wide margin if current trends are anything to go by. China will be the world's largest economy by 2028 and probably the world's largest defence spender by than too.

Now as we know PAF has to plan now to defeat threats in 2040-2050. Chinese are designing tech with the aim to defeat US in a war. Now imagine Pakistan is China's number one ally and often the first country to be given access to new Chinese weapons.

That puts us in an incredibly strong position vis a vis India. This is the logic behind Project AZM and the reason why 10 years from now we may well see it flying in PAF colours and why it will probably be one step ahead of FC-31. At that time some forum members on here will still be telling us IAF are signing for 83 LCA MK1As very soon....

 

[mingle]

We are living in very fascinating times, and a time of immense change in terms of the world's economy, technology and military power. As as we know Pak Armed forces, and especially the PAF, have sworn by US military technology. It gave our smaller forces an advantge over a larger India equipped with mainly Soviet and European weapons and it often came free or highly subsidised. This has been case for last 70 years.

Now US weapons and tech are still the the best in the world. F-35, Aegis ships etc

This is now changing and the world is changing rapidly. Something that I think Pak Mil realised about 10 years ago. We still have the option to buy P-8, more F-16s or pay our own money for AH-1Zs.

We chose not to for a very good reason and bought Chinese tech, which was not as advanced but came free of strings and could be bought in more numbers.

Now here is the crux of the matter. In 20 year or maybe even much sooner. US Weapons technology may no longer be the best in the world. Already US has admitted China is ahead in areas like missiles, EW etc

The generation after F-35, F-22, J-20 and FC-31 will be where China will surpass US and Europe. by a very very wide margin if current trends are anything to go by. China will be the world's largest economy by 2028 and probably the world's largest defence spender by than too.

Now as we know PAF has to plan now to defeat threats in 2040-2050. Chinese are designing tech with the aim to defeat US in a war. Now imagine Pakistan is China's number one ally and often the first country to be given access to new Chinese weapons.

That puts us in an incredibly strong position vis a vis India. This is the logic behind Project AZM and the reason why 10 years from now we may well see it flying in PAF colours and why it will probably be one step ahead of FC-31. At that time some forum members on here will still be telling us IAF are signing for 83 LCA MK1As very soon....

Imagine both india and Pak has P8s

 

[araz]

The tragetory of Pakistan - USA relations are very well known. Downwards and negative.

They can get together from time to time and talk shit like they are now, and nothing needs to come of it. Dance the dance, but don't get involved, dont promise anything or commit anything.

You only have to look at the number of Indians Biden has promoted into his goverment to understand that P akistan and USA relations will never recover, and Pakistan should not pretend otherwise.

USA can "say" what ever it wants, but you have to look at their actions and see the negative impact of those actions against Pakistan to see that the two now have different destinys, with no common shared values, no common interests, or no common ideals.

So dance, and then go home and forget about it ...

I will not disagree with you and I firmly believe US aid has done little/other than making fat cats fatter and their pockefs lined with gold. However international relations are not the friendship of buddies in a class. It is about congruent and divergent interests. Between Pak and india. India is a much beeter bet to do business with. More compliant less corrupt(slightly) secular democratic neighbour to the next emerging threat to the US interests world wide. It also happens to be a much bigger market for US. Pakistan on the other hand has relied on its geostrategic location to get US to take interest. While Pak China relationship is a natural occurence in view of their viscinity and the viscinity of China to its main regional competitor and adversary.
So why should Pakistan bother with the US? 2 or 3 main reasons come to mind. Pakistan does not want a repeat of 88 when the US made a hasty exit from Afghanistan without settling the power crisis in the region. The only person that could have cajoled/blackmailed the US into staying was gotten rid of and Pakistan was left holding the baby.For Pakistan at this point in time the most important step is the settlement ofthe Afghan issue so it can/rest relatively easy on its/Western border.
The matter of the US arms is a bit more complex. Pakistan does want them as nothing beats US armaments bang for the buck wise. The problem is simple. Pakistan wants weapons on the cheap reminding the US of fhe CSF/other monies/which the US allegedly owes Pakistan. US on the other hand wants Pakistan to buy their/weapons at full price. Pakistan does not feel cpmpelled to do so. With ghe advancements in the chinese Aviation industry there appears to be no neex for Pakistan to be reliant on the US weaponry anymore. Thos os the jist of the current tussle between the two. Whosoever can browbeat the other into submission will win. One thing Pakistan MUST NOT do is rely on US promises. We have been hoodwinked by personal assurances before as well and this time whatever is acquired needs to be acquired upfront. This is going to be another complicating factor. The issue is Pakistan can be bullied on account of its poor financial condition and mere assurances of reprieve from IMF and FATFmight be too good for Pakistan to pet go. If on the other hand Akistani economy is on the up and financial parameters are uptrending then it might not be so simple for the US to bait is. The question is how will the cookie crumble. That remains to be seen.
A