Pakistan, US at odds over definition

[CENTCOM]

Dear Penumbra,

The US went to Afghanistan to accomplish a mission by eliminating the terror network and to help bring peace and stability to the nation. Pakistan is a key ally in this war on terror and while new strategies are implemented, it is not uncommon to have disagreements; especially when both nations are looking to implement different strategies to reach the same end result. President Obama has stated over and over that we will stay until the goal is accomplished and the Afghan forces are capable of protecting their nation. The US presence is supported by not only its allies but the progress exhibits through the developments that have taken place. Are you aware? The International Security Assistance Force confirmed Qari Amil, another Haqqani Network senior leader responsible for suicide attacks as well as facilitating fighters from Pakistan into Khost province and Kabul, was killed during an overnight operation in Paktiya province Saturday. Special Operating Forces (SOF) conducted 260 operations that took 22 leaders and 380 lower level fighters off the battlefield from 18-24 October. During the last 90 days from 21 October, SOF conducted 1,543 operations that killed 339 insurgent leaders, 983 lower level fighters and captured 2,461 insurgents. Targeted operations like these are only one small part of a comprehensive counterinsurgency campaign. Conventional operations, improvements in governance and development, and coordination with regional partners like Pakistan are other lines of operation which increase pressure and eventually squeeze the life out of the insurgency. All of these facts lead me into asking, do you still believe “nothing has been achieved”?


In Kandahar City, property values have risen significantly over the past few weeks in anticipation of the first 10MW generator coming online. Improving security conditions have also opened international commercial activities, with the shipment of 10 metric tons of pomegranates from Kandahar Airport to Dubai. The strategic alliance with Pakistan on this war against terror is not only beneficial for US but essential for Pakistani Government to eliminate the extremists who are killing its own citizens. These extremists have made their agenda clear and constant attacks whether at a shopping center or at the Sufi Shrine prove serious threat Pakistani People and the Government is facing at the moment. Do you really think the Pak Army would be “cleaning the mess that US leaves behind” or removing an internal threat which continues to destroy the nation?


LCDR Bill Speaks,

DET, United States Central Command

www.Centcom.mil

 

[r3alist]

Well said, Vassnti, Sir. It seems pretty clear that Haqqani has been, and still is, Pakistan's favorite jihadi.

because ofcourse the US has never ever had any jihadi pets of their own?

right?

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Haqqani has been, and still is, Pakistan's favorite jihadi.

Pakistan will never go after Haqqanis as long as its ONLY an American Demand, Going after them makes some critical National interests at stake , ie The Indian threat.
However in future,going After Haqqanis could serve a vital National Interests which is the Enforcement of the Law of the state to these ungoverned areas , That could only be possible in two ways
1. Either the Haqqanis will be persuaded to accept the Law of the state and lay down there Arms and Participate Politically in the betterment of Pakistan Thus accepting the Constitution of Pakistan 1973.

2. But if the Haqqanis and his gang fail to accept the Law of Sate as laid down by the constitution of Pakistan 1973 and fail to integrate themselves into the Pakistani Political Spheres and continue on course of Violence than there are Valid and Justifiable reasons for the GOP to take a full fledged Military Ops to eliminate them Atleast inside the Pakistani Territory.

But that could only and soly be possible once the Hostilities emanating from Indian maneuverings inside Afghanistan and the Issues of Resolution of Outstanding Disputes Like Kashmir,Sir Creek,Siachen etc are properly addressed by the International community Perticularly US and Required Indian Will to Resolve such issues is attained.

Until Then ,Yes Haqqanis are Pakistan's Favourite Jihadis.

 

[airuah]

i always have this doubt...if the Pakistan military is so strong as every one here is lead to believe....
1)why does it need the support of insurgents
2)why does it not have full hold over is territory (while it allows some areas to be completely under the terrorists considering them to be assets).

or is the military strong because of these assets?

 

[PakSher]

Dear Penumbra,

The US went to Afghanistan to accomplish a mission by eliminating the terror network and to help bring peace and stability to the nation. Pakistan is a key ally in this war on terror and while new strategies are implemented, it is not uncommon to have disagreements; especially when both nations are looking to implement different strategies to reach the same end result. President Obama has stated over and over that we will stay until the goal is accomplished and the Afghan forces are capable of protecting their nation. The US presence is supported by not only its allies but the progress exhibits through the developments that have taken place. Are you aware? The International Security Assistance Force confirmed Qari Amil, another Haqqani Network senior leader responsible for suicide attacks as well as facilitating fighters from Pakistan into Khost province and Kabul, was killed during an overnight operation in Paktiya province Saturday. Special Operating Forces (SOF) conducted 260 operations that took 22 leaders and 380 lower level fighters off the battlefield from 18-24 October. During the last 90 days from 21 October, SOF conducted 1,543 operations that killed 339 insurgent leaders, 983 lower level fighters and captured 2,461 insurgents. Targeted operations like these are only one small part of a comprehensive counterinsurgency campaign. Conventional operations, improvements in governance and development, and coordination with regional partners like Pakistan are other lines of operation which increase pressure and eventually squeeze the life out of the insurgency. All of these facts lead me into asking, do you still believe “nothing has been achieved”?


In Kandahar City, property values have risen significantly over the past few weeks in anticipation of the first 10MW generator coming online. Improving security conditions have also opened international commercial activities, with the shipment of 10 metric tons of pomegranates from Kandahar Airport to Dubai. The strategic alliance with Pakistan on this war against terror is not only beneficial for US but essential for Pakistani Government to eliminate the extremists who are killing its own citizens. These extremists have made their agenda clear and constant attacks whether at a shopping center or at the Sufi Shrine prove serious threat Pakistani People and the Government is facing at the moment. Do you really think the Pak Army would be “cleaning the mess that US leaves behind” or removing an internal threat which continues to destroy the nation?


LCDR Bill Speaks,

DET, United States Central Command

www.Centcom.mil

Though the US and Pakistan would like to have a common solution, it may not be possible to agree 100% of the time, but we agree that there has to be a permanent and lasting peace in Afghanistan. Afghanistan needs to develop an economy and can no longer cultivate poppy as the main source of employment and income.

War is Iraq is a war in Iraq and not a war in Saudi Arabia or Iran. A war in Somalia is not a war in Kenya. It seems that the Afghan, US, Nato and ISAF did not want to build posts along the Pakistan-Afghan border and wanted the Afghan war to become Pakistan's War. Afghan War came to Pakistan and should have stayed in Afghanistan.

Saddam fought Iran to protect the Western and Saudis interest and despite the economic aid was left with a $82,000,000,000.00 billion dollar war debt, we do not want to be in that situation. We have been left alone in the past twice. Once by the US Naval 7th Fleet in East Pakistan and once in 1989 with the US exiting Afghanistan with a mess in our back yard. Yes, US is exiting Iraq but the explosions in Iraq are now Iraq's problem. Today 72 people were killed there again in Baghdad. Yes, Obama wants to exit Afghanistan starting in 2011, but the mess there after will be also Pakistan's problem.

The Egyptians fought a 8 day war in Operation Desert Storm and all their military debt was forgiven $7,000,000,000.00 billion dollars to be exact. Pakistan has lost 3,000 soldiers in the 9 years of WOT and we are begging the IMF. All these things do not add up and Pakistan will be left with a huge war debt and exploding bombs in the end like the exit of US from Iraq. Actions have to speak louder than words, but not in this scenario. Exit in 2011 is not something Pakistan is making up that is what the US and ISAF are planning.

 

[softtec]

Favorite jihadi?

Do you even know what that means? I doubt if Americans would have lived that long in Afghanistan. They have already surpassed the average lifespan of foreign soldiers in Afghanistan, considering Soviets and British invasions before that.

Obama, if wants to get re-elected, he has to fulfill one promise and that is to lift troops out of Afghanistan by 2011. There is no peace, nothing has been achieved and the people you were after are still at large, not only that, are shipping bombs on board US courier services.

Funny eh?

Obama will come to Pakistan, when he knows 2011 will be bloody year for Afghanistan and Americans alike. Then he will tell PAK ARMY and ISI to take dollars and clean up the mess that Americans leave behind.

Now why the heck would Pakistan go after people that have the potential in very near future, to be in Afghanistan, that is Pakistan's own back yard?

hi penumbra,
If you think you can get rid of Americans in afganistan by 2011(!!) or 2015, u will be living in fools paradise. Americans r here to stay.What they want to reduce the bloodsheds and control as many places, make peace with different groups and buy time, weaken taliban groups, isolate them from each other.By 2015, even if they leave, they will keep 30-40k spacial forces and full air power to deny any taliban aggression anywhere. After making afgan army stronger, slowly they will go for each and every taliban groups separately and take them under central leadership.

More importantly, Asia will be the most important factor for geo political scenario.And you see Afganistan is the best place for America in all means and thats why they r making heavily all sorts of defence infrastructure there.

 

[softtec]

Wrong! there is something known as self interest, every country has one..........why shouldn't Pakistan? US hasn't even payed half the price of what Pakistan has payed both in terms of human life and economical loss since WOT started. Besides what the US must keep in mind is that Pakistan knows this area and the people in these areas much more then any of the US or NATO ever can, we share a long pours border with them, we have much more at stake then any other country involved and that is why our word should been taken seriously. If Pakistan says haqqani network can be reconciled within the afghan framework, then this should be given a serious thought since US is looking for an exist strategy which cannot be accomplished without Pakistan.

Yes I believe Pakistan should look into its self interest also.
1. But when ppl from your country cross over and make mayhem all over, others(read west) should have also the right to punish you.They are your tool, so either you control them or face the punishment.

2. Why would west would PAY you.You are getting rid of your enemies,created and nurtured by yourself, from your land.If they don't pay you, would you like to see your land, ur society coming inside taliban regime? They are paying you in the hope that your military will get rid of them,who are NATO's enemy. But you are playing game and they know it also. Instead of that US is paying for each and every bullet your military spend for killing ttp and saving your country everyday.

3. What if they get frustrated and stop helping you and see you as their enemy.West can survive,but will you be anywhere to stand? If you deeply think what will be the consequences and how much Pakistan's already fragile economy and military and its geo political existence heavily depends on that, you will come to know why your top brass can't go against them anyway.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

i always have this doubt...if the Pakistan military is so strong as every one here is lead to believe....
1)why does it need the support of insurgents
2)why does it not have full hold over is territory (while it allows some areas to be completely under the terrorists considering them to be assets).

or is the military strong because of these assets?

Pakistan uses them just Like India uses BLA terrorists in Balochistan and the Mukti Bahani in former East Pakistan

it is the same reason USA uses insergents against countries which it has political differences from Latin America to middle east.

regarding your point 2. it dates back and beyond even the days of Birtish raj. this is how the people of those area and the Goverments settled things. goverment representitive plus local surders. thats why they are called semi autonomous.

Former empires tried their luck, Russia tried its luck the Americans are trying for the past 10 years with little to none success. so my dear son its the geography and the people.


your last comment

or is the military strong because of these assets?

that is true, because Pakistan army has a large portion of people from these Areas. I too belong to the border town.

satisfied my innocent friend?

 

[KS]

Pakistan uses them just Like India is alleged(by Rehman malik) to use BLA terrorists in Balochistan and the Mukti Bahani in former East Pakistan

There corrected for you...!!

 

[Tshering22]

Pakistan uses them just Like India is alleged(by Rehman malik) to use BLA terrorists in Balochistan and the Mukti Bahani in former East Pakistan

Another factor that differentiates Mukhti Bahini from the Taliban that you support in the name of national interest is that MB didn't run around mixing with worldwide terrorist organizations, plotting bomb attacks in entire Europe, hide terrorists from Russia's Chechn province, provide armed cover for hijackers of airliners from other countries, subject local populance under brute and intolerant philosophies etc.

Bahini didn't do all of this; Taliban has done all of this. And If you're still continuing to call them your national interest say officially, it means you take the enmity of not just India but entire West as well as CAR and Russia.

 

[somebozo]

Well its very simple..US wants to turn a blind eye towards factions backed by rivals while it expect Pakistan to go behind its Taliban allies..no way..

Another factor that differentiates Mukhti Bahini from the Taliban that you support in the name of national interest is that MB didn't run around mixing with worldwide terrorist organizations, plotting bomb attacks in entire Europe, hide terrorists from Russia's Chechn province, provide armed cover for hijackers of airliners from other countries, subject local populance under brute and intolerant philosophies etc.

Bahini didn't do all of this; Taliban has done all of this. And If you're still continuing to call them your national interest say officially, it means you take the enmity of not just India but entire West as well as CAR and Russia.

Given the chance they would have but the event folded much faster than their capability to wage terror.

 

[IceCold]

Yes I believe Pakistan should look into its self interest also.
1. But when ppl from your country cross over and make mayhem all over, others(read west) should have also the right to punish you.They are your tool, so either you control them or face the punishment.

2. Why would west would PAY you.You are getting rid of your enemies,created and nurtured by yourself, from your land.If they don't pay you, would you like to see your land, ur society coming inside taliban regime? They are paying you in the hope that your military will get rid of them,who are NATO's enemy. But you are playing game and they know it also. Instead of that US is paying for each and every bullet your military spend for killing ttp and saving your country everyday.

3. What if they get frustrated and stop helping you and see you as their enemy.West can survive,but will you be anywhere to stand? If you deeply think what will be the consequences and how much Pakistan's already fragile economy and military and its geo political existence heavily depends on that, you will come to know why your top brass can't go against them anyway.

Nonsense no one is going out from Pakistan to kill anybody infact the very opposite is happening.Pakistan suffered more loss both economically and physically. No body else suffered even the half of that and that gives us the full right to follow the route which serves our national interest and not that of anyone else. As for punishing No body invited the US to attack on a a country and put the whole region into chaos.
Your second point is even more rubbish since those so called enemies were once friends of the US too. Problem arose when US left the region after the soviet withdrawal and left Pakistan to deal with the mess, a war torn country, with whom you share a long pours border.
Your third point shows your indian mentality which has nothing to do with the topic, we can stand without the aid or we cant, i dont think i need to prove this to somebody across the border who sees everything with tainted Indian glass. For you obviously everything that is wrong or goes wrong has to be Pakistans fault. So spare me. I know you guys from across the border have nothing else to bring other then the aid thingi but let me make it clear that The aid that is given to us is not even peanuts to what we have spent so far and the loss that we have suffered economically not to forget the loss of human lives.
And also for your information much of the money that US pays us is our own, the transit fees.

 

[Kinetic]

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/special/asbombing/images/afghan.gif

Pakistan has this very long border with Afghanistan that is very difficult to control. What happens in Afghanistan affects Pakistan the most and we've seen that in these past 9 years. India is no where near Afghanistan so just shut your mouth and mind your own business.

If we don't have a border with Afghanistan than we have to mind our own business!!! Strange logic.

But its not just India or US/NATO but Afghans are complain.

india is not the largest democracy, india is the largest hypocrisy:

you are just probing that you are a hypocrite!! think about your country first rather than India. the signature is not usually given to show hatred!!!

 

[U-571]

hi penumbra,
If you think you can get rid of Americans in afganistan by 2011(!!) or 2015, u will be living in fools paradise. Americans r here to stay.What they want to reduce the bloodsheds and control as many places, make peace with different groups and buy time, weaken taliban groups, isolate them from each other.By 2015, even if they leave, they will keep 30-40k spacial forces and full air power to deny any taliban aggression anywhere. After making afgan army stronger, slowly they will go for each and every taliban groups separately and take them under central leadership.

More importantly, Asia will be the most important factor for geo political scenario.And you see Afganistan is the best place for America in all means and thats why they r making heavily all sorts of defence infrastructure there.

god forbit the day americans make you their strategic advisor, or obama will regret every second of this time

 

[U-571]

Yes I believe Pakistan should look into its self interest also.
1. But when ppl from your country cross over and make mayhem all over, others(read west) should have also the right to punish you.They are your tool, so either you control them or face the punishment.

2. Why would west would PAY you.You are getting rid of your enemies,created and nurtured by yourself, from your land.If they don't pay you, would you like to see your land, ur society coming inside taliban regime? They are paying you in the hope that your military will get rid of them,who are NATO's enemy. But you are playing game and they know it also. Instead of that US is paying for each and every bullet your military spend for killing ttp and saving your country everyday.

3. What if they get frustrated and stop helping you and see you as their enemy.West can survive,but will you be anywhere to stand? If you deeply think what will be the consequences and how much Pakistan's already fragile economy and military and its geo political existence heavily depends on that, you will come to know why your top brass can't go against them anyway.

blah blah blah of an indian nothing else...