Pakistan-Turkey Going To Have Massive Deals In Defence Production Sector - Press Release

[MadDog]

Very true.

Urdu is not my strength but is the word not "Na-balek"?

And if you don't mind me asking which area of Turkey are you from?

It is Naa-Balegh in urdu, with a Ghain at the end !!!

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Very true.

Urdu is not my strength but is the word not "Na-balek"?

And if you don't mind me asking which area of Turkey are you from?

Yes. I think both are coming from Persian. Central Anatolia..

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Central Anatolia..

Heartland of Turkey. I once read a book about the Ottomans (English book) and the writer described the high plateaux of Central Anatolia as the land which provided the Ottoman Empire it's real power base.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Heartland of Turkey. I once read a book about the Ottomans (English book) and the writer described the high plateaux of Central Anatolia as the land which provided the Ottoman Empire it's real power base.

Thanks for your comments. Few traits of the folks from the Central Anatolia:

• Moderately conservative and traditionalist, but definitely not extremist.
• Mildly nationalist, but definitely not racist.
• Give importance to education.
• Love to serve in the government and be loyal to the State.
• Show lots of interest in business. They have excelled in large, medium and small scale industrial, construction, trade, retails etc. enterprises. They are getting increasingly good at exports and setting up business entities in other countries like former Soviet block countries. So, looking at CPEC, my gut feeling is that it exactly matches with their business models. I hope that lots of the Central Anatolian entrepreneurs fully leverage CPEC.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Thanks for your comments. Few traits of the folks from the Central Anatolia:

• Moderately conservative and traditionalist, but definitely not extremist.
• Mildly nationalist, but definitely not racist.
• Give importance to education.
• Love to serve in the government and be loyal to the State.
• Show lots of interest in business. They have excelled in large, medium and small scale industrial, construction, trade, retails etc. enterprises. They are getting increasingly good at exports and setting up business entities in other countries like former Soviet block countries. So, looking at CPEC, my gut feeling is that it exactly matches with their business models. I hope that lots of the Central Anatolian entrepreneurs fully leverage CPEC.

Thanks for that excellent summary. If I remember correctly that book I read on Turkey said that the Anatolian central highlands had bred a stock of hardy people, loyal to the state and that formed the backbone of the Ottoman Empire. What you say sort of fits in that.

Hakikat What I find fascinating about Turks and the Islam practiced there is how well it sits with Turkish nationalism. Islam in Turkey seems to reinforce the Turkish state. Whereas in Pakistan Islam weakens the state. It creates citizens who end up investing citizenship in the ummah and will go against the interest of the state in pursuit of that. This is not the case in Turkey. Zulkarneyn gave me some insight into this but I need to look at this more.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Pakistan was created on the basis of Islam, Muslims etc. So, Islam should also reinforce Pak state..

 

[shhh]

Thanks for that excellent summary. If I remember correctly that book I read on Turkey said that the Anatolian central highlands had bred a stock of hardy people, loyal to the state and that formed the backbone of the Ottoman Empire. What you say sort of fits in that.

Hakikat What I find fascinating about Turks and the Islam practiced there is how well it sits with Turkish nationalism. Islam in Turkey seems to reinforce the Turkish state. Whereas in Pakistan Islam weakens the state. It creates citizens who end up investing citizenship in the ummah and will go against the interest of the state in pursuit of that. This is not the case in Turkey. Zulkarneyn gave me some insight into this but I need to look at this more.

What do you think people are gonna do if you are going to bow down to non muslims to kill muslims?

 

[RAMPAGE]

Pakistan was created on the basis of Islam, Muslims etc. So, Islam should also reinforce Pak state..

Pakistan was created to get Muslims the political representation that would've been denied to them in a pseudo-secular Indian union. It was not created to to enforce shariah on the Muslims of Subcontinent.

The state of Pakistan should be reinforced by ideals such as liberty, equality and justice. These ideals cannot be implemented in a non-secular state.

 

[T-123456]

Hakikat What I find fascinating about Turks and the Islam practiced there is how well it sits with Turkish nationalism. Islam in Turkey seems to reinforce the Turkish state. Whereas in Pakistan Islam weakens the state. It creates citizens who end up investing citizenship in the ummah and will go against the interest of the state in pursuit of that. This is not the case in Turkey. Zulkarneyn gave me some insight into this but I need to look at this more.

It has nothing to do with religion,it never used to be the important factor.
Nationalism is the key factor here,Turkish nationalism is not comparable to what we know as nationalism.
As know you know 98% of Turks are ''Muslims'',Sunni,Alevi,Shia,Suleymani,Nur etc,so we dont have the need to emphasize religion.
The nation comes first.

Pakistan was created to get Muslims the political representation that would've been denied to them in a pseudo-secular Indian union. It was not created to to enforce shariah on the Muslims of Subcontinent.

The state of Pakistan should be reinforced by ideals such as liberty, equality and justice. These ideals cannot be implemented in a non-secular state.

If only.

Pakistan was created on the basis of Islam, Muslims etc. So, Islam should also reinforce Pak state..

Read the history of Pakistan,you might be surprized.
Btw,try to find out what the white stripe on the Pakistani flag means.

 

[RAMPAGE]

If only.

Inshallah! Humans are by default a very progressive species. Sooner or later, the progress will come. One way or the other.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

As know you know 98% of Turks are ''Muslims'',Sunni,Alevi,Shia,Suleymani,Nur etc,so we dont have the need to emphasize religion.
The nation comes first.

This is what fascinates me. This is the Gordion Knot that I can't quite disentangle. 98% of Pakistan is also Muslim of various denomonations. However the nation does not come first. Islam does.

This is a recipe for disaster that opens up the state being held hostage to every one penny bit crook that invokes the sanction of Allah and to enforce their Islamic prescription and political goals. This works at differant levels. We end up with myriad of groups with one extreme on the spectrum being the TTP although there are others not quite as virulent but still pose a threat. Also we even have individuals like the policeman who murdered Governor Taseer who similary invoked himself as agent of Allah's sanction. This leades to mass of warring groups in state of conflict with each other and ultimately weakening the state as it becomes hostage to whatever interpretation is cited as Islamic. You can see the murderous rampage inside Pakistan as the result of this.

 

[Zarvan]

Thanks for that excellent summary. If I remember correctly that book I read on Turkey said that the Anatolian central highlands had bred a stock of hardy people, loyal to the state and that formed the backbone of the Ottoman Empire. What you say sort of fits in that.

Hakikat What I find fascinating about Turks and the Islam practiced there is how well it sits with Turkish nationalism. Islam in Turkey seems to reinforce the Turkish state. Whereas in Pakistan Islam weakens the state. It creates citizens who end up investing citizenship in the ummah and will go against the interest of the state in pursuit of that. This is not the case in Turkey. Zulkarneyn gave me some insight into this but I need to look at this more.

You Sir really need to study Islam. Turkey is not following Islam as state and in most cases Pakistan isn't also. As for endorsing state !!!! Well we got one major problem with that despite my immense love for Pakistan I have to admit Islam doesn't accept nation state concept. Denying that is amusing but not reality. @T-123456 @RAMPAGE

 

[RAMPAGE]

You Sir really need to study Islam. Turkey is not following Islam as state and in most cases Pakistan isn't also. As for endorsing state !!!! Well we got one major problem with that despite my immense love for Pakistan I have to admit Islam doesn't accept nation state concept. Denying that is amusing but not reality. @T-123456 @RAMPAGE

You should move to Mars. They don't have states there.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You Sir really need to study Islam.

This may surprise you but I have studied it. I have also read Sir Allama Iqbals works foremost being "Reconstruction of Religious thought in Islam".

Link > http://islamicblessings.com/upload/The Reconstruction Of Religious Thought In Islam.pdf

I have to admit Islam doesn't accept nation state concept

Well there you have it. Thanks for being honest. The nation state as defined by Westphalian principles as on contours of which Pakistan exists is anathema to traditional Islamists. So in a sense Pakistan is not a vessel that can contain the Islamists vewrsion of Ummah concept because it is transnational rather than national. It in fact invalidates the very foundations of Pakistan including even it's military.

In ideal Islam conceptual level the military would be serving the interests of the ummah rather than the nation state of Pakistan. which is why TTP and other radical Islamists call Pak Army "Na-Pak" army. This of course goes back to what I said about inheritant tensions within the very Dna of Pakistan which needs resolving.

You should move to Mars. They don't have states there.

I can't help but chuckle at that.

 

[T-123456]

This is what fascinates me. This is the Gordion Knot that I can't quite disentangle. 98% of Pakistan is also Muslim of various denomonations. However the nation does not come first. Islam does.

This is a recipe for disaster that opens up the state being held hostage to every one penny bit crook that invokes the sanction of Allah and to enforce their Islamic prescription and political goals. This works at differant levels. We end up with myriad of groups with one extreme on the spectrum being the TTP although there are others not quite as virulent but still pose a threat. Also we even have individuals like the policeman who murdered Governor Taseer who similary invoked himself as agent of Allah's sanction. this is creates mas of warring groups in state of conflict with each other and ultimately weakening the state as it becomes hostage to whatever interpretation is cited as Islamic. You can see the murderous rampage inside Pakistan as the result of this.

It all started after Jinnah's death,the Muslim extremists took power and it all changed,you became the ''Islamic Republic of Pakistan'',every Muslim extremist group opened madrassas in Pakistan and slowly changed the mindset of the people.
Even the military has been infiltrated.