Pakistan totally failed to capitalize the technology transfer of the Agosta-90B Submarines.

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Yes had we constructed 12 Agostas over 28 years period , the benefits would be quadrupled once we did our own modification and enhancements

Unfortunately Engineering is an industry that needs sustaining power and recurring orders

A Submarine every 2 year Ratio would have created 14 Submarine Agosta force for Pakistan Navy


I think we had Nawaz Sharif in power in early 90's the infamous Yellow Cab Scheme
Then Benazir in late 90's, god knows what she achived other then looking fancy in dupata
Bilawal was born so some sadqa was given which was equal to budget for Navy

Self explainatory

Those Yellow cab scheme vehicles were stuff of legends

 

[Safriz]

Damn... what a waste of skill, resources and time

Defence budget is not directly handed over to the military. It comes via the ministry of defense. Out of 8 billion allocated budget, how much actually reaches the armed forces is much lower than people think.
Noonay , Peepay all blame the armed forces to hide the corruption of their leaders , but civilians have been the biggest hold up in Pakistani military plans.

 

[The SC]

Hi,

But the Agosta 90B was one of the finest in its class at that time---so---kickbacks aside---pak navy got a great product---.

Pakistan can build the whole Sub.. it just the MESMA tech that was not transferred..but now getting ToT for much more advance Submarine technology from China is much better.. considering it to be the equivalent of the German type-214..

 

[Safriz]

Pakistan can build the whole Sub.. it just the MESMA tech that was not transferred..

S 139 Hamza, which was commissioned on 26 September
2008 - was constructed entirely in Karachi, with the exception of its MESMA.

 

[SipahSalar]

.but now getting ToT for much more advance Submarine technology from China is much better

We don't even know which submarines we are buying. Everything about it has been secret. For all we know it can be some old Chinese sub.

 

[The SC]

We don't even know which submarines we are buying. Everything about it has been secret. For all we know it can be some old Chinese sub.

You mean it?

 

[SipahSalar]

You mean it?

Not really lol. But still we really don't know which submarines we are buying? Why do you think its being kept secret?

 

[BATMAN]

Just like PAF, Pak navy should also launch naval education city.

 

[Hassan Guy]

just leaving this here

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The ToT KSEW typically receives basically involves material kits from the overseas supplier, be it France, China or Turkey. Even where there's manufacturing work, key inputs - such as ship grade steel, electronics, etc - are taken from the OEM. For Pakistan to have a turnkey shipbuilding industry, it needs competency in the ship design as well as most key inputs, such as steel, composites, electronics and - ideally, one day - gas turbines and engines.

 

[Safriz]

Musharraf era saw leaps and bounds improvement in Pakistani defense industry. Then came democracy

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

So much promiss in picture.. yet ... zero
Well we had a savior , trained in best universities of Western world but performance was zero. I don't recall 1 single achivement under her time not one. I was quite young but I remember the fanfare around her , and my parents were glued to radio .....elections are here elections are here .... I was like what is this election welection?

Then we had our Shy PM , Nawaz Sharif

Such a cute boy Nawaz Sharif was , so shy eyes down so ... innocent just wanted to
be a proper fellow. Karachi main Altaf & Raw ka raj , and Nawaz looked the other way

Ab Kiya Kahain? Kiyon nikala?
Nahi Nikali to Agosta Submarine nahi Nikli 3rd ke bad

Thank God someone was smart enough to plan or JF17 Thunder and our defence strategy


I would certainly love to purchase a modern Pak Studies books to see what kind of fairy tales they have placed in the modern books just for sake of a laugh

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Musharraf era saw leaps and bounds improvement in Pakistani defense industry. Then came democracy

Ultimately, our command of the inputs - e.g. steel, composites, propulsion, electronics, FAB etc - needs a lot of work. Even if Pakistan does well in designing ships, it means relatively little if we have to keep importing the inputs. Individually, these things don't get a lot of fanfare (e.g. gas turbines), but when brought together, these make ships, planes, missiles, etc.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Ultimately, our command of the inputs - e.g. steel, composites, propulsion, electronics, FAB etc - needs a lot of work. Even if Pakistan does well in designing ships, it means relatively little if we have to keep importing the inputs. Individually, these things don't get a lot of fanfare (e.g. gas turbines), but when brought together, these make ships, planes, missiles, etc.

Yes, without industrial capacity and ability to make the raw materials even, whatever shipbuilding we will be doing will be basically putting the pieces together. You don't buy furniture from Ikea, assemble it in your living room and then brag about building it from scratch.

We need to get the basics done right before we will really be able to manufacture on the required scale on the high end. There is a reason why we build stuff like the wings etc for the JF-17 and not the bulkheads or why the barrels for Al-Khalid were manufactured in France. I think it wasnt until 2011 when PA made the first one in house, but with the steel mill not operational, any future ones will probably have to be imported as well. A submarine's requirements for high grade steel is even more stringent then tanks etc, due to the environment they have to operate in.

What is shortsighted is that we even tried peddling the subs to countries like Malaysia and in the ME, yet we didn't actually place any orders for our own Navy. Even with two additional subs, we could have replaced the defunct Agosta 70s at least.

But what has happened in the past can not be changed. We do need to learn lessons from it and act accordingly. Instead of dreaming about how much we will earn in payments for being a drive-through for Chinese goods, we need to build industrial infrastructure with their and Russian help.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Yes, without industrial capacity and ability to make the raw materials even, whatever shipbuilding we will be doing will be basically putting the pieces together. You don't buy furniture from Ikea, assemble it in your living room and then brag about building it from scratch.

We need to get the basics done right before we will really be able to manufacture on the required scale on the high end. There is a reason why we build stuff like the wings etc for the JF-17 and not the bulkheads or why the barrels for Al-Khalid were manufactured in France. I think it wasnt until 2011 when PA made the first one in house, but with the steel mill not operational, any future ones will probably have to be imported as well. A submarine's requirements for high grade steel is even more stringent then tanks etc, due to the environment they have to operate in.

What is shortsighted is that we even tried peddling the subs to countries like Malaysia and in the ME, yet we didn't actually place any orders for our own Navy. Even with two additional subs, we could have replaced the defunct Agosta 70s at least.

But what has happened in the past can not be changed. We do need to learn lessons from it and act accordingly. Instead of dreaming about how much we will earn in payments for being a drive-through for Chinese goods, we need to build industrial infrastructure with their and Russian help.

Yep assistance is available from abroad, not just in China and Russia, but Ukraine, South Africa, Brazil, France, Germany, Sweden, etc as well. We're ultimately talking about industrial capacity building here that might or might not have direct military value, so our scope of potential partners and providers is much wider than say a fighter or submarine.