Pakistan to stick with RD-93 engine for JF-17, say PAF officials

[IHK_PK]

Hear it came for the block 2 of jf17.

 

[Quwa]

It was kind of obvious this (i.e. PAC looking to set up a complete engine servicing and overhaul centre in Kamra) was going to happen, but I just want to say I guessed this a few days ago

Russia Might Become a Key Defence Partner for Pakistan

Sputnik News also reported that PAC was looking to engage in a partnership with Russia in the area of engines, specifically in terms of ‘modernizing’ PAC’s engine servicing facilities. The JF-17 – i.e. the PAF’s emerging backbone fighter – uses the Klimov RD-93 turbofan, and while details are scarce as to exactly what the PAC is looking for (e.g. is it just training or actual facilities for the RD-93), I think it is fully appropriate to see PAC try and bring home the complete set of maintenance and overhaul technology and expertise relating to the RD-93.

Pakistan was able to do this with France in the 1980s when the MRF set up an ATAR 09C turbojet overhaul facility, certified by the French manufacturer SNECMA no less. Similar to how the MRF treats Mirage aircraft, the engine wing dissembles the ATAR 09C, professionally cleans and inspects it, identifies defects and/or signs of wear and decay, and – where possible – repair efforts are made in-house. In fact, in some cases the MRF would even manufacture new parts for use on an existing engine (be sure to refer to the MRF’s official website for more details – informative stuff)!

If PAC could secure this level of support for the RD-93 in Pakistan, it would be a solid technological and operational windfall for the PAF. For one thing, the RD-93 is a modern turbofan engine (i.e. an evolutionary step up from the ATAR 09Cs the MRF is presently supporting), so even being able to fully service this engine would infuse PAC with considerable expertise and technological uplift.

Secondly, it further grounds the JF-17 as a locally sourced and supported program. Remember, the JF-17 is the up and coming backbone fighter of the PAF, and thus it is absolutely vital that at least the engine’s long-term servicing aspect is fully owned by Pakistan. It’s one thing to not build new engines (a difficult feat), but it is quite another to have fighter aircraft sitting in the hangar because their engines are overseas for servicing. Moreover, this initiative (if it comes to fruition) may serve as a means for Pakistan and Russia to cooperate on further development of the RD-93, enabling PAC to directly engage with Klimov in order to identify areas of concern and improvement in the RD-93.​

 

[Vapnope]

There was this news of China-Russia Deal for SU-35 yesterday but no one of PDF posted it.

 

[Beast]

I dont blame the Pakistanis. I blame the ultra conservative Chinese leadership. They have too many fear and wanted everything to be safe and perfect. Not willing to take risk. In advance of technology, casualties and mistakes are part and parcel for advancement for higher technology. You dont take risk, you have no advancement.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I dont blame the Pakistanis. I blame the ultra conservative Chinese leadership. They have too many fear and wanted everything to be safe and perfect. Not willing to take risk. In advance of technology, casualties and mistakes are part and parcel for advancement for higher technology. You dont take risk, you have no advancement.

The risk aversion started after the era of Deng.

During the era of Mao, you won't hear such thing as China has created a lot of miracles under his leadership.

Don't let the anti-cultural revolution propaganda to cloud your judgement, and Mao has done by far more good than bad.

If the modern Chinese leaders have more Maoism than Dengism, then you should feel more happy and lucky as a Chinese military enthusiast.

 

[Al-Taïr]

Hi,


For future aircraft----maybe with a slightly bigger frame and structure---a more powerful engine maybe needed to meet with more fuel---more electronics and more weapons carrying capabilities----.






As for the other poster who mentioned about twin engine aircraft---it has already been built and as @Khafee pointed out---it is named as J31.

Now possibly for an upgraded version---the JF17 could be enhanced like the Grippen NG----or similar to the japanese F2---.

The only thing that is of most concern to me for the JF17 is the LOITER TIME of this aircraft----otherwise once it gets integrated with the PL15 and the PL12---the power projection of this aircraft would increase tremendoulsy---but still a heavy bird is of dire need.

1stly it was me in post#21
2ndly how do u purpose incresed block3 (more power consuming electronics )loitertime(CFTs) without bigger engine.
YES, we need heavies, but still it would help if we can increase the range of thunder without much investment.

 

[atlantis_cn]

The risk aversion started after the era of Deng.

During the era of Mao, you won't hear such thing as China has created a lot of miracles under his leadership.

Don't let the anti-cultural revolution propaganda to cloud your judgement, and Mao has done by far more good than bad.

If the modern Chinese leaders have more Maoism than Dengism, then you should feel more happy and lucky as a Chinese military enthusiast.

Don't be ridiculous. Dog Mao is an animal. Communism is devil. They pull China into dark water. The only thing that CCP is good at is to brainwash those retard nationalist to support them and actually do bad thing to China.

 

[It.is.all.mudi's.fault]

This is a stupid statement to make.

In case engine of an aircraft is changed, it need a redesign. Pakistan does not have money to pay China to redesign JF-17.

 

[Bilal.]

I dont blame the Pakistanis. I blame the ultra conservative Chinese leadership. They have too many fear and wanted everything to be safe and perfect. Not willing to take risk. In advance of technology, casualties and mistakes are part and parcel for advancement for higher technology. You dont take risk, you have no advancement.

Even though I am not Chinese but reading through the history of aircraft and engine development I sometime get furious over so many good projects that were cancelled after being labelled "risky". Recently I recall an article stating that even WS-10 nearly got cancelled!

 

[Beast]

Even though I am not Chinese but reading through the history of aircraft and engine development I sometime get furious over so many good projects that were cancelled after being labelled "risky". Recently I recall an article stating that even WS-10 nearly got cancelled!

There are some idiot in Chinese leadership that do not know what is important.

Don't be ridiculous. Dog Mao is an animal. Communism is devil. They pull China into dark water. The only thing that CCP is good at is to brainwash those retard nationalist to support them and actually do bad thing to China.

But you cannot discredit Mao for uniting the Chinese mainland. The only thing Mao shall do is too left the economy development under other leadership.

 

[MastanKhan]

1stly it was me in post#21
2ndly how do u purpose incresed block3 (more power consuming electronics )loitertime(CFTs) without bigger engine.
YES, we need heavies, but still it would help if we can increase the range of thunder without much investment.

Hi,

For the loiter time and load---I think that this aicraft should have been a little bigger than the F 16---like the Mitsu F2----. In the current form---loiter time is an issue----conformal tanks may not help----but a slight hump close the the fuselage on the wigs can add some fuel----or possibly the fual tanks the style of Gripen NG----

I think that in the current format---the loiter time with load is around----45 minutes to an hour----. But once you have air to air refuelling---then the figures would totally change---.

Then the loiter time could be close to 1 hr 45 minutes----assuming that a fully loaded aircraft would use 1/3rd to 1/2 of its fuel to climb to its flying altitude----.

So---here is how you would do it---a fully weapons loaded plane with minimal fuel for take off---level at around 10000 feet and refuel---top off----fly around for the duration---top off again and still got another 1 hr + flight time---because of oxygen rstriction ( Thank you @Indus Falcon ).

For the BLK 3----the RD93 could be tweaked a little more---or just like in a boxing batch---you show the right and come up with the left---so we might have a new engine for the BLK3----.

Bottomline is that the Thunder is a little bird----its strength is in its smaller size----

 

[Syed Hussain]

Hi.

That tells you that the RD93 is the right engine for his aircraft and it was the right engine from day one. The issue about the power are not technical in nature but just for the armchair bandits----blowing bubbles.

This is not a race of who is faster from 0 to 60---but the race is for endurance---utility---availability---ease of servicing and reliability.

Young pakistanis must learn and realize that in weapons of war---you do not go out for glittery and shinny stuff--but you go for the known and proven---.

This is not a dash for a 100 meters race---but this is sustenance for a marathon---so your utility needs to be suitable for the marathon.

We also find out that the smoke issue is also secondary---and there is no big deal about it----it was just a drama created by the critics who could not find anything else wrong with it.

"The grapes are sour" is the only conclusion I can deduce from this comment . I know that our Air Force's current budget don't have money(until the fill of corruption is taken from it) for other engine options and it's alright but sometimes a single step forward can make things a lot different even if you can't change the whole road. RD-93 is basically based on the series 2/3 of RD-33 and there was a lot of time and money as well to have it brought to the "MK" level. The problem with the sentimental youth is that they fail to understand the needs and requirements of the fat bellies of the high up ones comparing to the needs of country's defense. But then it matters not because "quality" is not among the virtues that were set to get in its any regime(beside weapons) while this whole Thunder thing was planed and put to work.

 

[MastanKhan]

"The grapes are sour" is the only conclusion I can deduce from this comment . I know that our Air Force's current budget don't have money(until the fill of corruption is taken from it) for other engine options and it's alright but sometimes a single step forward can make things a lot different even if you can't change the whole road. RD-93 is basically based on the series 2/3 of RD-33 and there was a lot of time and money as well to have it brought to the "MK" level. The problem with the sentimental youth is that they fail to understand the needs and requirements of the fat bellies of the high up ones comparing to the needs of country's defense. But then it matters not because "quality" is not among the virtues that were set to get in its any regime(beside weapons) while this whole Thunder thing was planed and put to work.

Hi,

For a 24 years old---you are a smart kid----. This was a good write---. I wish I had you r ability to write when I was 24---damn if only I was not chasing---.

 

[!eon]

some people really don't have any brains on PDF.
Pakistan already has about 70 aircraft in operational service or in testing phase right now, that's about 70 RD-93 in service plus however many spares. Who in their right mind would decide to change the engine now?
Those engines represent about $300 million investment, and by the end of Bock 2 production, PAF would have invested more than HALF A BILLION $!

So why in the world would they change the engine?

Agree! That's the real reason to stuck with RD-93.
Originally, it was to be replaced by WS-13 but Chinese could not bring it on time. Now, it's too much late.

The focus seems to be more in interesting the Russians to open a maintenance facility so that Russia can be pulled closer...besides..I doubt there are any other deliverable options available..The ej200 ..The Europeans aren't going to let chinese engineers anywhere close to thier product. ..and for the chinese engines. .hmm.

The funny part on this article was that pac designed the plane and that they "worked" extensively with the Russian engineers from klimov.

EJ-200 is available for export versions, if customer demands for that. Of course, that customer himself would not be incorporating the EJ-200, it will be Chinese and Pakistanis doing the job.

 

[atlantis_cn]

There are some idiot in Chinese leadership that do not know what is important.


But you cannot discredit Mao for uniting the Chinese mainland. The only thing Mao shall do is too left the economy development under other leadership.

China has been splitted for many times but history has proved that this state will not last long. Even if CCP did not exist, I believe China will be a united country after World War II very soon.

But I think the question you should ask is: what if Deng didn't start the process of abandoning communist economy and adopt capitalist economy under the disguise of Chinese style communism? China will still be in the dark age today like North Korea is now.