Pakistan to skip US summit on democracy

[Mav3rick]

it is always our foreign policy that has over decades ruined the relationship time to time. we cannot even score the point for when we had good relations with US, it was them who came to us for their own interests. when interests are high and at stake we were their great ally and discarded later, because they knew we need them and even if they discard us we will still go reminding them of our contributions to their cause time to time.

If one looks at our history objectively, the US has been a great partner and supporter of Pakistan ever since we initially aligned ourselves with them. The only instance where we can place fault on them is when they left the Afghanistan mess all to us and subsequently placed us under sanctions (Pressler Amendment). However, the US would do the exact same to any other similar ally who develops Nuclear Weapons because the US doesn't want any other country to produce them. Hell, I don't want any other country to have that capability and I am just an individual.

I have also found that we have not been able to convey our concerns and requirements to the US objectively and that many a time, personal ambitions overwhelm National causes. In instances, the US can sufficiently acquire services against personal gains rather than the country's benefit........maybe to the detriment of the National interests at times. In my opinion, more blame lies upon us than the US for the inconsistency of our relations ever since 9/11.

even when today we have such a cold with them, we are still waiting and keep waiting once they give a wink and we'll be running.

US could be a better partner which would always be in our favor but to have them we never play clever. taking benefit, they always kept us on ventilator giving that much dosage which was required to keep this State not to default.

we never learn from it, busy in our own political bias and plundering and selling cheap. that's what suit them for their own interests in the region that is always critical, hence they always found a partner within Pakistan and was brought forward in the form of a regime to forward their interests. this is why we see our "people" running to Washington of and on.

with China we need to play a different game as to how bring them to the table and make them look into our problems. but what good we did with our relationships with US that we will ever be able to bring China to a table where coffee is served to both.

I do agree with you. We failed to capitalize on our relations with the US, which could have proceeded in an entirely different direction under Musharraf had we truly aligned ourselves to the US's cause instead of playing double games. In return, we could have demanded many things, slowly and gradually, after building trust. We could have been their gateway to South East Asia, we could have provided permanent bases so long as our debt was paid off. We could have progressed through transfer of technology, not just military technology but industrial, medical and manufacturing technology. We could have been so much more........

Infact, we effed up our relation with Saudi Arabia too (place the entire blame on Imran Khan) when we failed to assist the future monarch with his ambitions in Yemen. We could just as easily have provided 50k troops which could have accomplished all MBS desires in return for clearing off of our debt or free Oil for the next 25 years or something similar. But Imran Khan architected an attack, with the assistance of PPP, in the parliament where plans by PML to assist Saudi Arabia were thwarted. Now, why should the Saudis continue to assist Pakistan when Pakistan refuses to assist them in return?

China is a different game altogether. China will share everything with us, at a price. But China will NEVER provide aid or financial assistance (without interest). The US provided us tens of Billions of USD over the many decades but China does not believe in providing such aid. It believes only in providing loans (some may be cheap loans on loose terms) but at the end of the day it expects the money back with interest.

Had I been in power, in the interest of Pakistan, I would have always sided with US on most matters except those which to China, India, Saudi Arabia, UAE and perhaps Turley & Malaysia. And I would have gifted Afghanistan to the US on a platter after ensuring that Pakistan's debt was taken care of.

 

[Ghessan]

I do agree with you. We failed to capitalize on our relations with the US, which could have proceeded in an entirely different direction under Musharraf had we truly aligned ourselves to the US's cause instead of playing double games. In return, we could have demanded many things, slowly and gradually, after building trust. We could have been their gateway to South East Asia, we could have provided permanent bases so long as our debt was paid off. We could have progressed through transfer of technology, not just military technology but industrial, medical and manufacturing technology. We could have been so much more........

Infact, we effed up our relation with Saudi Arabia too (place the entire blame on Imran Khan) when we failed to assist the future monarch with his ambitions in Yemen. We could just as easily have provided 50k troops which could have accomplished all MBS desires in return for clearing off of our debt or free Oil for the next 25 years or something similar. But Imran Khan architected an attack, with the assistance of PPP, in the parliament where plans by PML to assist Saudi Arabia were thwarted. Now, why should the Saudis continue to assist Pakistan when Pakistan refuses to assist them in return?

China is a different game altogether. China will share everything with us, at a price. But China will NEVER provide aid or financial assistance (without interest). The US provided us tens of Billions of USD over the many decades but China does not believe in providing such aid. It believes only in providing loans (some may be cheap loans on loose terms) but at the end of the day it expects the money back with interest.

Had I been in power, in the interest of Pakistan, I would have always sided with US on most matters except those which to China, India, Saudi Arabia, UAE and perhaps Turley & Malaysia. And I would have gifted Afghanistan to the US on a platter after ensuring that Pakistan's debt was taken care of.

handing over bases to US. we have several pressure groups in the form of right wings who are always there to take benefit of the situation arising and then the establishment: it simply does not suit them. they are well established with three tier of forces and the institutions like ISI to work for their own cause either it is politics within the country, foreign policy or nuclear assets and US existence simply kidnap their interests and of nation.

we know spying devices were found in Islamabad during Musharraf regime when US contractors were in Pakistan and much more which was not disclosed to the nation and it was the time we were their front line ally. we cannot trust them and it is like for ever.

on relationship with Saudis, they have the habit of keeping us at a lower scale with a developed thought of us being their "yes sir"

why did they list us with other countries into their coalition force without asking or taking into confidence?
could do it in a better way but their ego gets hurt like a kid whoes toy is broken. in the end they look at us when security issue arise off and on? When trump said they will lift the security of the kingdom and their existence will be in shambles and it is a fact. then who every time give them the security assurance, is it Egypt or UAE or some other Muslim country who can't even defend themselves.

we need to ally with China very cleverly because there is a difference between China and US. US have interests in this region which they have to buy them. on the other hand China's interests are well served, Pakistan being side with them already on this. then what do we have to bring them to the table?

hence our relations with both the US and China are very important to balance out because both counter each other and we will need our relations with US for our importance towards China, stable.

 

[-=virus=-]

Well, I am well aware of the consequences if/when America decides to punish Pakistan. I just don't see the non-attendance is going to be the catalyst for a big rupture. That Pakistan was invited over presumed allies like Hungary shows that there is a need for Pakistan, at least as of now.
PS. A recent video by a respected Pakistani blogger Saleem Safi says that Pakistan is being pressured into joining the American camp and ditch China and CPEC and even make compromises with India. According to Safi, time is running out for Pakistan and Pakistan has to decide. FYI.

Well that's what happens when in a financially dicey situation, the need to choose a side, a camp. The safer way for Pak to get out of it's financial woes would be to maintain good relations with the US and not put all it's eggs in the Chinese basket.

Compromise does not necessarily mean surrender or submit, it's about time both sides realized that the borders as the stand now with the LOC are permanent, they really are, nobody wants a nuclear confrontation, keep what you have and move on. It's a stalemate with no solution otherwise.

 

[Goenitz]

Well that's what happens when in a financially dicey situation, the need to choose a side, a camp. The safer way for Pak to get out of it's financial woes would be to maintain good relations with the US and not put all it's eggs in the Chinese basket.

Compromise does not necessarily mean surrender or submit, it's about time both sides realized that the borders as the stand now with the LOC are permanent, they really are, nobody wants a nuclear confrontation, keep what you have and move on. It's a stalemate with no solution otherwise.

Economic plus personal (IK vs Joe). Plus, sometimes these maneuvers are necessary as US has boycotted China Olympics. So, chinese nation may remember this gesture. Anyway, US has been our great ally and donor, and great enemy. We must take some balance approach but sometimes sides are necessary.

 

[araz]

although a bold step but to me it seems it will have consequences though we already are going through in certain forms.

it also seems our foreign ministry is not keeping a balance when it comes to China and US which leads to, we are not clear with our foreign policy and still taking influences.
but, this time there may not be much hue and cry because it is China this time? then this too is wrong indeed.

The international agenda against Pakistan is not going to change in the short to intermediate term. As such attendence/nonattendence becomes a mute point. I agree pakistan and US have bigger issues to resolve and redefine their relationship in the long term to achieve a stable mutually beneficial relationship.
A

Well that's what happens when in a financially dicey situation, the need to choose a side, a camp. The safer way for Pak to get out of it's financial woes would be to maintain good relations with the US and not put all it's eggs in the Chinese basket.

Compromise does not necessarily mean surrender or submit, it's about time both sides realized that the borders as the stand now with the LOC are permanent, they really are, nobody wants a nuclear confrontation, keep what you have and move on. It's a stalemate with no solution otherwise.

As mentioned this is part of the much bigger discord between Pakistan and the US. It will noy get sorted by going to/attending a virtual conference.
A

 

[Battlion25]

handing over bases to US. we have several pressure groups in the form of right wings who are always there to take benefit of the situation arising and then the establishment: it simply does not suit them. they are well established with three tier of forces and the institutions like ISI to work for their own cause either it is politics within the country, foreign policy or nuclear assets and US existence simply kidnap their interests and of nation.

we know spying devices were found in Islamabad during Musharraf regime when US contractors were in Pakistan and much more which was not disclosed to the nation and it was the time we were their front line ally. we cannot trust them and it is like for ever.

on relationship with Saudis, they have the habit of keeping us at a lower scale with a developed thought of us being their "yes sir"

why did they list us with other countries into their coalition force without asking or taking into confidence?
could do it in a better way but their ego gets hurt like a kid whoes toy is broken. in the end they look at us when security issue arise off and on? When trump said they will lift the security of the kingdom and their existence will be in shambles and it is a fact. then who every time give them the security assurance, is it Egypt or UAE or some other Muslim country who can't even defend themselves.

we need to ally with China very cleverly because there is a difference between China and US. US have interests in this region which they have to buy them. on the other hand China's interests are well served, Pakistan being side with them already on this. then what do we have to bring them to the table?

hence our relations with both the US and China are very important to balance out because both counter each other and we will need our relations with US for our importance towards China, stable.

To much assumptions.. Hard to even take this serious

 

[Rana4pak]

Baji (democracy) dar gyee

 

[Baby Leone]

bad decision as usual, Pakistan again lacks professionalism. I am sure Pakistan govt would be the first one who would cry had they not been invited.

could have send lowest level delegation instead of refusing straight away and taking sides.

 

[RoadRunner401]

If one looks at our history objectively, the US has been a great partner and supporter of Pakistan ever since we initially aligned ourselves with them.

I would love to know these great things they have done for Pakistan, please share some.

The only instance where we can place fault on them is when they left the Afghanistan mess all to us and subsequently placed us under sanctions (Pressler Amendment). However, the US would do the exact same to any other similar ally who develops Nuclear Weapons because the US doesn't want any other country to produce them. Hell,

How generous of you to call worse thing ever happening in Pakistan a small (mess). So, according to you,Afghan war that left us almost bankrupt and infested with terrorist that destroyed our economy and then they put sanctions on us to make the deal even sweeter.

Upon their return they allowed Indians to openly operate terrorist camps in Afghanistan and literally destroyed Pakistan, and that's no biggie according to you, we should stay in that camp for more future goodies to come.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Good move and nice diplomatic slap to yanks. I like the wording, "will be discussed at appropriate time".

Clearly this so called summit was to take a dig at China. Bit immature to be honest.

Pakistan is a big nation. It doesnt need to take sides, should work with those nations who are willing to work with us for mutually beneficial outcomes, like China. Despite several polite reminders, yanks it seems are still not coming to terms with Pakistan will not take their side against others. America is more then welcome to work with 5th/6th biggest nation on the planet where it suites both interests, but these lousy so called summits will only isolate America more in geopolitics.

Times of either with us or against us are long gone. Wake up and smell the coffee, for own benefit.

For those who think Pakistan is China's client state, well, if your nation is in this summit, which only mean that your nation is a American tattu (lackey).

 

[vi-va]

Thank you, Pakistan. We appreciate.

 

[KaiserX]

Good decision.

One needs to ponder what benefit would Pakistan have gained from attending such a summit?
Nothing nada. Sometimes your respect is far more important. The fact that Biden refused to Call IK until now even though Pakistan helped more than any other country in evacuating americans/foreign nationals from afghanistan, blows my mind. Either Biden is that incompetent or he wants to make a point to khan. Those thinking that pakistan would gain ANY SORT OF ECONOMIC BENEFIT ARE PURE NAIVE. How much will you bend over backward to serve others?

The diplomatic outline by the FO was on point for once. By stating that we are thankful but wont attend, a great message was sent across.

 

[Meengla]

Compromise does not necessarily mean surrender or submit, it's about time both sides realized that the borders as the stand now with the LOC are permanent, they really are, nobody wants a nuclear confrontation, keep what you have and move on. It's a stalemate with no solution otherwise.

I am probably a minority Pakistani view here who thinks the Loc=IB is the solution as long as the demographics of Kashmir are not changed, Pakistan's water rights are safe-guarded, and Kashmiris have the max internal autonomy. I see no other solution. And the Manmohan-Musharraf dialogues were moving along that direction but unfortunately talks stopped probably because of the instability in Pakistan starting 2007 and Musharraf's quick departure from Pakistan after that. Saleem Safi--who someone above has ridiculed while quoting me-- is a well informed journalist and probably amongst the top-most authorities about the K-P province of Pakistan and Afghanistan--is hinting toward such a compromise. Shooting the messenger doesn't kill the message!

 

[-=virus=-]

I am probably a minority Pakistani view here who thinks the Loc=IB is the solution as long as the demographics of Kashmir are not changed, Pakistan's water rights are safe-guarded, and Kashmiris have the max internal autonomy. I see no other solution. And the Manmohan-Musharraf dialogues were moving along that direction but unfortunately talks stopped probably because of the instability in Pakistan starting 2007 and Musharraf's quick departure from Pakistan after that. Saleem Safi--who someone above has ridiculed while quoting me-- is a well informed journalist and probably amongst the top-most authorities about the K-P province of Pakistan and Afghanistan--is hinting toward such a compromise. Shooting the messenger doesn't kill the message!

It would be great if the 2 sides could arrive at such a compromise, spl considering t here really isn't any other option for settling it once and for all. Indian Kashmir will get it's statehood back soon anyway, they'll be like any other state in the union who decide their own affairs within the constitutional framework.

 

[vi-va]

you seems don't know the ground realities or do i say i am talking about my country and we have reservations even with CPEC.

we are trapped with countless institutions, organizations, banks and many other security and human rights related departments that work in several ways particularly related to economy. we cannot ignore them.

these all can play with us anytime they want or to serve their purposes on geopolitics, one example is FATF. and if i continue you will get bored.

and i come to your point:
"Why not make your position clear and stand with the one who will always support u?"

ok support us:
improve balance of trade with us
remove duty from Pakistan imports into China
get us out of FATF
influence IMF, World Bank, ADB and other financial institutions to ease up
to some extent convert CPEC projects into "support your partner"
help us establish trade with the countries that you can influence
we are defaulting on committed tariff on power projects under CPEC, so?
we are defaulting on loan pay back, so?

any single of above will never be served that is what i am sure and the world is always this way hence we have to deal with them our way as those are either our blunders or are imposed.

My Pakistan friend,

Are you willing to give up your current political system if most of your wishes will be fulfilled? Would you like to try a Chinese alike system which can make plans for next 20-50 years?

The current political system makes plan for next 5 years before next election, sometimes government lasted for 1-2 years, or even days.

List of prime ministers of Pakistan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

IK is the 22nd PM. Average tenure of office since 1947 is 2+ years if you take military government into consideration.

Think about it, my dear friend.