Pakistan to manufacture Ada class corvettes and T-129 helicopters locally.

[Army research]

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This seems like a done deal,

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Yup, that is what i am saying. Plus 40, 40+ is the absolute minimum number for any such venture i think, keeping in mind that the number may never go above 60 at max.

For a future light/medium lift/utility helicopter, do you think building or designing one around the T-129 engine and gear box can be possible? I think it should be. If that is the case we can get some parts commonality and in that case a local assembly plant for T-129 will be truly beneficial as well.

I suspect that would basically be in the league of the AW139 (but with up-rated engines).

I was actually referring to a much smaller platform, less than 2,000 kg. It'd be cheaper to pursue and the expected domestic scale may be much higher, e.g. PAA using it as a scout and trainer, civilian market, etc due to its simplicity and lower cost. Think of it as a rotary wing Mushshak and something akin to the MD530, AH-6i, etc.

Here's a Ukrainian program - KT-122

http://ukroboronprom.com.ua/en/medi...rem-yera-vid-ukroboronpromu-na-idex-2017.html

 

[The Accountant]

It is really a great news.

I am just concerned on why Pakistan is not pursuing the new MI28?

Not so trustworthy relation with russia ...

 

[princefaisal]

I suspect that would basically be in the league of the AW139 (but with up-rated engines).

I was actually referring to a much smaller platform, less than 2,000 kg. It'd be cheaper to pursue and the expected domestic scale may be much higher, e.g. PAA using it as a scout and trainer, civilian market, etc due to its simplicity and lower cost. Think of it as a rotary wing Mushshak and something akin to the MD530, AH-6i, etc.

Here's a Ukrainian program - KT-122

http://ukroboronprom.com.ua/en/medi...rem-yera-vid-ukroboronpromu-na-idex-2017.html

That seems good for FC and other forces

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

That seems good for FC and other forces

Another good design is Poland's PZL SW-4.

http://www.pzl.swidnik.pl/en/sw-4/0,-q,15

 

[Arsalan]

I suspect that would basically be in the league of the AW139 (but with up-rated engines).

I was actually referring to a much smaller platform, less than 2,000 kg. It'd be cheaper to pursue and the expected domestic scale may be much higher, e.g. PAA using it as a scout and trainer, civilian market, etc due to its simplicity and lower cost. Think of it as a rotary wing Mushshak and something akin to the MD530, AH-6i, etc.

Here's a Ukrainian program - KT-122

http://ukroboronprom.com.ua/en/medi...rem-yera-vid-ukroboronpromu-na-idex-2017.html

Hmmm, Yeah that will be great as well. Since we are just speculating here how about:

1. 60 odd attack helicopters
2. A twin engine medium lift multi role helicopter in league of Mi-17/AW-139 that can be operated as SAR, Med Evac, VVIP transport, Civil transport, military medium lift helicopter etc. The requirement of such a version will be HUGE and if we can get parts commonality and engine, shaft and gear box commonality with the attack choppers in point 1 then it will be great. There are so many roles they can fit in and so the orders will be much larger than the attack choppers, more to the sound of 120-150 i would say.
   
3. Very light helicopter for training, scout, light attack, reconnaissance, quick insertion and evacuation etc etc. A relatively cheaper helicopter that can find good customers in civilian market as well. This can be a single engine helicopter based on an engine same or derived form the engine of above two options, thus, giving parts commonality again.

If all these options are looked into then an independent assembly and parts (with increased % now) manufacturing facility at Kamra Aviation City will make perfect sense and will make the project efficient.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Hmmm, Yeah that will be great as well. Since we are just speculating here how about:

1. 60 odd attack helicopters
2. A twin engine medium lift multi role helicopter in league of Mi-17/AW-139 that can be operated as SAR, Med Evac, VVIP transport, Civil transport, military medium lift helicopter etc. The requirement of such a version will be HUGE and if we can get parts commonality and engine, shaft and gear box commonality with the attack choppers in point 1 then it will be great. There are so many roles they can fit in and so the orders will be much larger than the attack choppers, more to the sound of 120-150 i would say.
   
3. Very light helicopter for training, scout, light attack, reconnaissance, quick insertion and evacuation etc etc. A relatively cheaper helicopter that can find good customers in civilian market as well. This can be a single engine helicopter based on an engine same or derived form the engine of above two options, thus, giving parts commonality again.

If all these options are looked into then an independent assembly and parts (with increased % now) manufacturing facility at Kamra Aviation City will make perfect sense and will make the project efficient.

Most feasible outcome would be SKD for the first two (with up to 33% of the parts manufactured and supplied from Pakistan), and with the final one manufactured (75%+) in Pakistan. The industry element for the first two would be aimed at providing deep local support for the helicopter fleet and commercial offsets to reduce the cost of major acquisitions. The final one would be to accrue export sales, especially in the civilian and low-income defence market.

 

[princefaisal]

Another good design is Poland's PZL SW-4.

http://www.pzl.swidnik.pl/en/sw-4/0,-q,15

Ukrainian model seems much better with air to air and air to surface weapons than Polands model. Also Pakistan's relations are much better with Ukraine in defence industry.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

This seems like a done deal,

2 year old pics.

 

[niaz]

In my humble opinion, both Pakistan has far too many different kinds of aircrafts, helicopters, tanks, guns and motor vehicles. Extremely onerous /costly to train, supply ammunition and keeping the same in working order. Must be a nightmare for the logistics.

Off course the reason being that due to restrictions Pakistan was forced to buy her armaments from whatever source that was available. Since helicopters in particular are more expensive per hour of flying time and more extreme to maintain than fixed wing planes. It is about time that Pakistan should start standardising. For example:

1. Gunships. Limit to two kinds only. We would have 15 AH1Z. Select another one giving us best bang for the buck from Chinese, Turkish or Russian.

2. Light/Scout /Liaison: Again restrict to maximum 2 or 3 kinds say Fennec , Bell 412 & T-129.

3. Medium lift /utility /troop transport. Understand we have close to 70 Mi-8 /Mi-17 and 50 Puma (?). Why not standardise on these ?

 

[Arsalan]

In my humble opinion, both Pakistan has far too many different kinds of aircrafts, helicopters, tanks, guns and motor vehicles. Extremely onerous /costly to train, supply ammunition and keeping the same in working order. Must be a nightmare for the logistics.

Off course the reason being that due to restrictions Pakistan was forced to buy her armaments from whatever source that was available. Since helicopters in particular are more expensive per hour of flying time and more extreme to maintain than fixed wing planes. It is about time that Pakistan should start standardising. For example:

1. Gunships. Limit to two kinds only. We would have 15 AH1Z. Select another one giving us best bang for the buck from Chinese, Turkish or Russian.

2. Light/Scout /Liaison: Again restrict to maximum 2 or 3 kinds say Fennec , Bell 412 & T-129.

3. Medium lift /utility /troop transport. Understand we have close to 70 Mi-8 /Mi-17 and 50 Puma (?). Why not standardise on these ?

And may be even try to go for systems that have common parts. Like South African Rooivalk Attack Helicopter and Atlas Oryx Medium sized utility helicopter have similar parts, both being based on Aerospatiale SA 330 PUMA!
Similarly the Cobra gun ships share the main rotor and shaft with medium lift helicopters of Huey family.
The Turkish T129 which is actually based on A129 was originally based on another medium size utility helicopter.

In short, in addition to restricting the number of different platforms in operation we can also opt for ones with parts commonality with other platforms. This is what i am trying to say here:

Hmmm, Yeah that will be great as well. Since we are just speculating here how about:

1. 60 odd attack helicopters
2. A twin engine medium lift multi role helicopter in league of Mi-17/AW-139 that can be operated as SAR, Med Evac, VVIP transport, Civil transport, military medium lift helicopter etc. The requirement of such a version will be HUGE and if we can get parts commonality and engine, shaft and gear box commonality with the attack choppers in point 1 then it will be great. There are so many roles they can fit in and so the orders will be much larger than the attack choppers, more to the sound of 120-150 i would say.
   
3. Very light helicopter for training, scout, light attack, reconnaissance, quick insertion and evacuation etc etc. A relatively cheaper helicopter that can find good customers in civilian market as well. This can be a single engine helicopter based on an engine same or derived form the engine of above two options, thus, giving parts commonality again.

If all these options are looked into then an independent assembly and parts (with increased % now) manufacturing facility at Kamra Aviation City will make perfect sense and will make the project efficient.

What do you think sir?

 

[niaz]

Excellent idea. But we need consistent policy to put it in practice. Quite often policies change with the new chief.

 

[Arsalan]

Excellent idea. But we need consistent policy to put it in practice. Quite often policies change with the new chief.

The change more frequently with the non-uniformed chiefs than with uniformed chiefs but yes, WHAT WE NEED IS consistent policy and approach to this project. It can work well for us if implemented properly. Otherwise an assembly setup for 40 odd choppers wont be really efficient way of doing it. We may ask for some parts manufacturing but a larger scale involvement should only come if the numbers are higher and if there is a vision to expand the project to cover medium and light weight utility/transport helicopters in the future.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Hmmm, Yeah that will be great as well. Since we are just speculating here how about:

1. 60 odd attack helicopters
2. A twin engine medium lift multi role helicopter in league of Mi-17/AW-139 that can be operated as SAR, Med Evac, VVIP transport, Civil transport, military medium lift helicopter etc. The requirement of such a version will be HUGE and if we can get parts commonality and engine, shaft and gear box commonality with the attack choppers in point 1 then it will be great. There are so many roles they can fit in and so the orders will be much larger than the attack choppers, more to the sound of 120-150 i would say.
   
3. Very light helicopter for training, scout, light attack, reconnaissance, quick insertion and evacuation etc etc. A relatively cheaper helicopter that can find good customers in civilian market as well. This can be a single engine helicopter based on an engine same or derived form the engine of above two options, thus, giving parts commonality again.

If all these options are looked into then an independent assembly and parts (with increased % now) manufacturing facility at Kamra Aviation City will make perfect sense and will make the project efficient.

If our defence planners were that smart what else could we desire

 

[ghauri05]

Can anybody here please list out the number of helicopters required by Pakistan's all three forces in all categories(attack, light etc.)...and how many Pakistan has currently in possession???
It will be greatly appreciated.