Pakistan to get 2 nuclear reactors from China

[WAQAS119]

It is directly related to India as if it get misused the nuclear bomb will be used against India. And also against international norms.

WE will use our civil nuclear plants to bomb india.....!!!!!!!!!!

how foolish statement is this!!!!

 

[KS]

WE will use our civil nuclear plants to bomb india.....!!!!!!!!!!

how foolish statement is this!!!!

even though i didn want to reply to this...

Wats the foolish thing in it..?

 

[Jazzbot]

even though i didn want to reply to this...

Wats the foolish thing in it..?

i think these n-reactors will be civilian. can't u differentiate Civilian and Military stuff lol
don't post if you are that much stupid

 

[RameeX Xaved]

It is directly related to India as if it get misused the nuclear bomb will be used against India. And also against international norms.

there is a height of every insanity

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i think these n-reactors will be civilian. can't u differentiate Civilian and Military stuff lol
don't post if you are that much stupid

let these people make a fool out of themself, it won't change anything (except a waste in PDF bandwidth)

 

[KS]

i think these n-reactors will be civilian. can't u differentiate Civilian and Military stuff lol
don't post if you are that much stupid

Mate we have the experience....

we used the CANDU civilian reactor from CANADA for our first atomic test...

So we have a valid concern here...Im not stupid...but its u who is.

 

[SMC]

No folks, take your concerns to Indian forums about what Pakistan can do to India with what Pakistan has or will have. Pakistan has lots of concerns on what India can do to Pakistan and we only discuss it on Pakistani forums. Keep the bickering to Indian forums.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Mate we have the experience....

we used the CANDU civilian reactor from CANADA for our first atomic test...

So we have a valid concern here...Im not stupid...but its u who is.

CANDU is a heavy water reactor with Plutonium as a byproduct which can be used for nuclear weapons.

Pakistan has been producing its own Plutonium from the Khushab reactor for decades now. Pakistan is also in the process of operationalizing two new reactors at Khushab that will at least triple its Plutonium production.

Pakistan also operates a Heavy Water reactor at Karachi (KANNUP) for power generation. However, this reactor functions under IAEA safeguards, and no Plutonium has been siphoned off to Pakistan's weapons program from here and is all accounted for.

The CHASNUPP series of plants (of which the proposed two are a part) are all Light Water plants, not Heavy Water, that will function under IAEA safeguards, so there is no chance of production of Plutonium and its diversion to Pakistan's weapons program (which as I mentioned is being expanded separately at Khushab).

The reason India was able to use spent fuel from CIRUS was because
1. It was a Heavy Water reactor that produced Plutonium as a byproduct

2. There were no IAEA safeguards to implement and prevent India from diverting fuel to a weapons program from a reactor meant for peaceful purposes

Therefore your concerns are invalid.

 

[Meengla]

It is a ****** imagination which would use the 'nuking 'em' in a casual way. We ALL need to closely and repeatedly watch what happened to the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki because of the nukes. Perhaps then we may realize that nukes are a weapon of no use--ever!
Can we not pull overselves back from the brink? This is no computer-game we are talking about here. We are talking about millions of innocent killed who had almost nothing to do with the major decisions being made by insecure and jingoistic 'leaders' of various countries involved in a M.A.D.

I firmly believe there is enough water to quench every living form's thirst, enough energy sources to give mobility and comfort to every living form, enough food to feed every living (at least human) form....There really is no need to deny 'the other' what can be so peacefully shared.

We are all basically fighting for resources--Marx remains correct scientifically-- then why not bring the discussion down to that level and look at the issues threadbare instead of hot-aired chest thumpin's!?

PS. I know, I am off-topic here. But I won't apologize in this particular case.

 

[Solomon2]

AM, have you found out if provisions for dealing with nuclear wastes are included in the deal? Although I find China's attitude to nuclear waste somewhat casual, they do have internationally-known engineers and scientists specializing in every step of properly handling nuclear wastes. As far as I know Pakistan does not.

 

[TaimiKhan]

AM, have you found out if provisions for dealing with nuclear wastes are included in the deal? Although I find China's attitude to nuclear waste somewhat casual, they do have internationally-known engineers and scientists specializing in every step of properly handling nuclear wastes. As far as I know Pakistan does not.

You guys don't know much about us.

So definitely you won't know much about what we do with the wastage.

Best option would be to contact the IAEA through your congressman and ask them as some of the nuke plants are under IAEA safeguards, they must know what is done with the nuke waste and who are the guys looking after it.

 

[Solomon2]

Actually, searching the IAEA site with the keywords, "Pakistan waste" got me the info I needed: Pakistan has a lot of expertise in the radwaste management field. May Pakistan use it well to build a better country!

 

[must7]

Mate we have the experience....

we used the CANDU civilian reactor from CANADA for our first atomic test...

So we have a valid concern here...Im not stupid...but its u who is.

This is related to India, cause it proliferated peaceful nuclear plant to acquire the bomb and in the early days even Christianed the explosion as "smiling Buddha" !

However, Pakistan had since day one accepted of it's defense related programme and managed to take away bombing making material from this plant, which was not agreed under any IAEA agreement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karthic Sri
If it is so they y did India go thru the gruelling NSG voting wen the US,Russia,France,UK were all supporting our stand.We could ve just went ahead and signed the deal with as many countries as we wanted.In NSG the assent of each and every country is necessary to do nuclear trade.
So no my friend they r not voluntary nor non-enforceable.the NSG rules are binding on it s members.

They are not enforceable, but if one country acts contrary to the NSG obligations, then the entire system collapses, which was the entire reason for setting up the NSG. But unlike an NPT violation for which Iran is facing sanctions, there is nothing enforceable in the NSG - it is merely a group of countries that has come to a common understanding on how to do business in nuclear technology in order to control its dissemination and prevent proliferation.

But because China does not want this system to collapse (it is negotiating 4G NPP's with the French and Russians) it is arguing that the CHASNUPP III and IV plants are covered under the original CHASNUPP agreement.


Quote:
Agreed.If they had signed a deal ,not just agreed verbally then the Chinese have the full rights to honour this contract outside the NSG ambit.

That is a grey area legally, and since the NSG is not a legal system, so long as the other members do not raise too much of a fuss (the articles posted earlier indicate the US may look the other way) the deal will go through and not be considered a violation of the NSG rules.

I think under the NSG conditions China cannot share nuclear technology with a non-signatory which it has acquired under the TOT / NSG rule + usually they all talk about Chasma as an extension of Chasma 1 project. If you see the dates of Chasma 2 (2005) than you will realize that they have transferred this without being invoked of the NSG clause.

Why because the Generation 1 light water nuclear reactor design is a Chinese one. Up to now China has not signed with us their II generation 600mw reactor because the design which they have is a TOT of Westing (USA).

Same way Chinese had earlier signed 4 Generation III reactors with Westing (now owned by Toshiba) and are under construction with them with scope of works which include TOT of the reactor.

Same way the Chinese are trying to milk Areva into transferring the EPR 1600 Generation III+ design, however, I don't think in the present form Chinese can transfer this technology to us due to the NSG ruling, even if they claim it to be Chasma 5 or 6 !

 

[Marxist]

China-Pak nuclear deal breach int protocol

WASHINGTON: China is all set to announce its intent to provide to Pakistan two nuclear-power reactors, according to a prominent American nuclear expert who said this would breach international protocol about the trade of nuclear equipment and material.

China's announcement will also overstep the guidelines of the 46-country Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), which bars nuclear commerce between Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) members like China and non-member states like Pakistan, Mark Hibbs a senior associate in the nuclear policy programme at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace said.

"In the coming weeks, China is expected to announce that it intends to export two nuclear-power reactors to Pakistan. The move would breach international protocol about the trade of nuclear equipment and material," Hibbs said in the latest issue of the prestigious Foreign Policy magazine.

Hibbs said once the deal is officially confirmed, the spotlight won't be on either Beijing or Islamabad, it will be on Washington, which concluded a watershed nuclear agreement with India in 2008.

"That deal is the precedent that has opened the door for China, creating an awkward test for a US administration greatly concerned about the risks of nuclear proliferation," he wrote.

"It will leave US President Barack Obama with two options, He can either oppose the transaction and request that China leave the NSG, or grudgingly accept the Chinese exports".

As of last week, when US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton met with Chinese leaders in Beijing for the three nday US-China Strategic and Economic Dialogue, the US was strongly leaning toward the latter, Hibbs said.

The noted author said if the White House does choose to grin and bear the China-Pakistan deal, it will have compelling reasons for doing so.

"The United States has a lot on its plate with China right now. It wants Chinese help on UN Security Council sanctions against Iran, a greater Chinese effort to rein in North Korea, and a significant revaluation of China's currency vis-a-vis the US dollar," he said.

"But more importantly, US made its own NSG rule-suspending nuclear deal with India in 2008.

Beijing could have blocked the NSG exemption for India, but accommodated the pressure of the US and its allies on this issue. Now, the bill is coming due as Islamabad demands equal treatment.

"China would now expect reciprocity from the United States in the NSG, given that it was Washington that started changing the rules," he noted.

Hibbs said a number of NPT countries are watching all this with alarm.

"At last month's NPT Review Conference, they referred to the US-India deal as a dangerous precedent. States that export nuclear equipment, they worried, would feel emboldened to brush aside rules meant to reward NPT membership with nuclear-trade privileges," he said.

China-Pak nuclear deal breach int protocol-Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times

 

[Nahraf]

What is the status of plan to build 1,000MW nuclear power plant at Paradise Point in Karachi ? Karachi is facing blackouts and the industry is suffering. What are PAEC plans after getting 2 plants at Chasma ?

KARACHI: Plan to establish 1,000MW Kanupp-II put on hold -DAWN - Local; January 31, 2009