Pakistan to fence, mine border with Afghanistan

[Bull]

There's a difference between tribes and terrorists. The Nato forces have made an enemy of them, they will be attacking to take their land back. We can't help Nato attack the tribes, so we are just fencing off the area to assist Nato..

Oh please Asim...now you have made NATO the aggressor and the poor tribesman the victim.

Do you remember it was the NATO who was asking you to fence and man your borders? So you are helping NATO for sure.

 

[Lahori paa jee]

Karzai lambasts border mine plan

Afghan President Hamid Karzai has criticised Pakistan's plans to fence and lay landmines along sections of its border with Afghanistan.
President Karzai said that the plans would only separate tribes and families, not prevent terrorism.

Pashtun tribes people live on either side of the Pakistan-Afghan border.

Afghanistan has long said the Taleban carry out cross-border attacks from Pakistan. Pakistan denies involvement in the attacks.

On Thursday, Mr Karzai said that removing the "sanctuaries" of terrorists would be more effective than fencing or laying mines along the border.

Concern for civilians

Fencing and mining, he told a news conference, would cause people "difficulty in movement, in trade".

United Nations officials have also criticised the plans, saying they will lead to civilian casualties.

A Pakistani foreign ministry spokesman said on Tuesday that the measures would help prevent insurgents from Pakistan crossing into Afghanistan to fight Nato forces there.

Officials say that as the fence and mines would be on the Pakistani side of the 2,430km (1,510-mile) border, an agreement with its neighbour was not needed.

Additional paramilitary troops will also be deployed along the border, they say.

Source

WHOEVER found Hamid Karzai to be the most suitable person for the office the president of Afghanistan, should at least have urged him to take a crash course in the ethics of international diplomacy before taking office. There are several universities in Pakistan that can help Mr Karzai in this regard. (Words from letters to the editor 28th dec 2006)

 

[Janbaz]

The main purpose for the fencing is to shut the mouth of all these Afghan's in Kabul and shed light on theiir effectiveness to counter terror. We'll see how many Taliban cross and to which a degree the violence stops in Karzai's backyard!

 

[Owais]

Karzai, UN reject Pakistan's mining policy


KABUL (updated on: December 28, 2006, 20:54 PST): Afghanistan's president and the United Nations dismissed on Thursday Pakistan's decision to mine and fence the frontier between the rowing neighbours as a way to cut back cross-border 'terrorism'. President Hamid Karzai said he would use "every method" to stop mines being planted on the border.

Pakistan said this week it had tasked its army with working out ways to fence or mine parts of the rugged 2,500-kilometre (1,500-mile) frontier to stop Taliban militants entering Afghanistan to carry out attacks.

Karzai said Afghanistan had suffered enough from mines within its borders.

Afghans "have suffered and we are very much for the removal, prevention of mines than laying of mines", the president said.

"We will use every method, every way of peaceful means, of dialogue and of friendly co-operation to prevent the laying of mines on the border because the laying of mines is not going to get us anywhere," Karzai said.

The United Nations in Afghanistan echoed the concern.

"The UN is opposed to the use of landmines," spokesman Aleem Siddique told AFP. "Afghanistan is already heavily mined and a lot of its civilians, mainly children, have been killed and maimed.

"From a UN point of view, fencing or mining the border is not a way to build trust and confidence among Pakistan and Afghanistan."

Karzai said if Pakistan were serious about curbing the militancy, then it should address its roots.

"Then we must remove their sanctuaries, then we must remove the places where they get training, the sources of finances and equipment and training. That is the best way and that is what our view is," he told reporters.

Karzai said the fencing or mining of the border would only hamper the movement of people in the ethnic Pashtun area, with some families and tribes separated by the colonially demarcated frontier drawn up more than a century ago.

"It is only going to prevent, hinder all movements by civilians, families, same tribes," Karzai said at a media briefing at the presidential palace in Kabul.

"If they need the separation of people, that is the way. If they need the prevention of terrorism that is not the way," he said.

Some analysts believe Pakistan is trying to formalise the boundary, which was drawn up in 1893 by colonial Britain and which Afghanistan disputes.

Pakistan is among around 40 countries that have not signed up to a 1997 treaty against the use of mines that has been ratified by more than 150 nations.

They have no cure for their mental diesease!:wall:

 

[Cheetah786]

C.I.A man karzai talks from his mouth or his a.s.s still a question.fencing the border is an excellent idea it will also help with slowing down the smugling.good for our economy :banana2: good news all the way.

 

[Keysersoze]

Oh please Asim...now you have made NATO the aggressor and the poor tribesman the victim.

Do you remember it was the NATO who was asking you to fence and man your borders? So you are helping NATO for sure.

Actually Bull I think it would help Pak more than it helps NATO. It means the war will not spill over into Pak. And helps maintain stability in a volatile region. The fencelines have been successful in similar situations elsewhere. Also if it is correctly done (monitored rather than left to be) then there will not be side issues such as danger to civilians.

 

[blain2]

This I believe is the appropriate representation of the Pakistani point of view on the Afghan situation:

From Dawn:

Fencing the Durand Line


FINALLY, Pakistan has decided to “selectively” fence and mine the border with Afghanistan. Whether mining falls in the same category as fencing and whether the two will serve the purpose for which they are to be used are questions of a tactical nature; the strategic question is: is the fencing in Pakistan’s interest? If it is, the government should go ahead with it and ignore Kabul’s objections. Afghanistan’s immediate reaction was, as expected, negative: there could be no other reaction from a regime which relies on foreign armies to prop itself up. The government in Kabul has failed to come up to the minimum expectations created in the international community when Mr Hamid Karzai was installed as Afghanistan’s chieftain — first as a nominee of the Bonn conference, and later elected by a grand jirga and still later by a general election. Reacting to the fencing-mining decision by Pakistan, an Afghan presidential spokesman termed it insufficient, called Pakistan’s move as “beating about the bush” and said that what Islamabad must do is to “confront terrorists in a real manner”. If Pakistan were to “confront terrorists” the way the Karzai regime is doing in Afghanistan, then perhaps terrorists would be the happiest lot.

In spite of having been in power for more than five years, Mr Karzai has done nothing to rid Afghanistan of terrorism, and the country’s southern part has become one big battlefield in which Afghan security forces and their American and Nato allies have been a fighting a losing battle — and blaming Pakistan for their own shortcomings. Like the post-Saddam security forces being raised in Iraq, Mr Karzai’s own Afghan national army is nowhere in a position to make its presence felt and give security to the Afghan people. During these years, Mr Karzai has made no attempt to broaden his political base and has relied entirely on force to settle what basically is a political problem. Contrary to what was expected of him, he has made no worthwhile political moves to end the insurgency or consolidate his own regime by going out to the warlords and other recalcitrant elements by developing a consensus among all of Afghanistan’s diverse political and ethnic groups.

It is a measure of the failure of Islamabad’s diplomacy that every western government asks Pakistan “to do more”, while ignoring the continued influx of Afghan refugees into Pakistan. Since the Soviet invasion, this country has played host to millions of Afghan refugees, and though many have gone back, millions are still in Pakistan.

Fencing may or may not give results, but Pakistan should continue to give priority to the political approach and ignore disingenuous advice from or uncalled for criticism by “friends and allies”. Things in North Waziristan are far from ideal, but there may be some improvement in the situation. It is time Mr Karzai’s friends in the West told him to pay some attention to his own country instead of seeking a scapegoat in Pakistan.

 

[Bull]

C.I.A man karzai talks from his mouth or his a.s.s still a question.fencing the border is an excellent idea it will also help with slowing down the smugling.good for our economy :banana2: good news all the way.

If its so good for your economy why did you wait for so long, and that too see who is suggesting whats good for Pakistan-Karzai!!!

 

[Bull]

Actually Bull I think it would help Pak more than it helps NATO. It means the war will not spill over into Pak. And helps maintain stability in a volatile region. The fencelines have been successful in similar situations elsewhere. Also if it is correctly done (monitored rather than left to be) then there will not be side issues such as danger to civilians.

Well that being the point,if its do benefitting the paksitanis why were they so hesitant.

 

[Awesome]

Well that being the point,if its do benefitting the paksitanis why were they so hesitant.

Because there is no urgency for us. If nato wants it, pay for it. We are fine with the way things are. It will benefit us no doubt, but we are FINE.

Basically yeah we are making Nato pay because we CAN.

Also this way, Afghanistan can't whine and ***** about it. It will be Nato's fault if civilians die due to the mining.

 

[blain2]

Well that being the point,if its do benefitting the paksitanis why were they so hesitant.

Bull this is not the correct appreciation of the situation.

Pakistanis were actually never hesitant about fencing it. For as long as Durrand line has existed, we have considered it but never constructed it due to Afghan reservations since they do not agree to the Durrand dilineation. With the NATO/US pressure increasing, GoP rightfully believes that this is the right time to overrule Afghan rejections and build it.

 

[Keysersoze]

A lot of posts regarding civilian injuries. It should be made clear that mines are only good IF they are monitored by patrols and other means. Other fence systems (such as the Morice line) had patrols and rapid reaction forces alongside detection systems and mines.

If they don't operate this system, then the whole fenceline will simply be a big waste of time.

 

[blain2]

A lot of posts regarding civilian injuries. It should be made clear that mines are only good IF they are monitored by patrols and other means. Other fence systems (such as the Morice line) had patrols and rapid reaction forces alongside detection systems and mines.

If they don't operate this system, then the whole fenceline will simply be a big waste of time.

Well the mines to be layed are going to be kept track of by the PA with appropriate entry/exit points demarcated. The problem of patroling the fences is not an easily doable one. The terrain does not allow a lot of motorized movement. You have to rely on boots on the ground literally and obviously that has limitations. The idea behind fencing is to assist the ground troops as they cannot be everywhere. The only way for this issue to work out really requires both sides to commit on an equal footing....they have to mirror our units/posts along the entire border. For as long as they cannot do that, Pakistan will only have limited success. The blocking has to happen on both sides so ingress from Pakistan and egress from Afghanistan (back into Pakistan) can be blocked.

 

[salman77]

UN, Canada press Pakistan to drop border mines​

KABUL: The United Nations and Canada added to pressure on Pakistan Monday to shelve a plan to plant landmines on parts of its border with Afghanistan in a growing row about Taliban fighters crossing the frontier. But Islamabad defended the move, which has prompted strong objections from Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai and led hundreds of Afghans living in the border area to demonstrate at the weekend.

"This will not contribute to better security in either country," UN deputy representative in Afghanistan Chris Alexander told reporters in Kabul, urging all nations to persuade Pakistan to abandon the use of landmines.

Pakistan is one of about 40 countries, including China and the United States, that have not signed up to a world convention agreed in Ottawa in 1997 to ban the use of mines.

"We hope all the nations of the world can convince Pakistan and the other countries that haven't signed the convention of the threat and dangers to ordinary human beings that landmines present," Alexander said.

Canadian Foreign Minister Peter MacKay, on a visit to the southern Afghan province of Kandahar, said he intended to tell Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf in Islamabad Tuesday that the mining of the border was unacceptable.

"I do not accept the use of landmines," MacKay told reporters after he met some of the 2,500 Canadian soldiers facing some of the worst violence of the Taliban insurgency here.

"I certainly intend to relay this to President Musharraf during my visit to Pakistan. There are other ways to find a solution," he said. Pakistan said last month it would mine and fence part of the rugged 2,500-kilometre (1,500-mile) border to block militants crossing from Pakistan to fight in Afghanistan's worsening insurgency.

"We are not mining to kill human beings. There is an extraordinary situation which requires extraordinary measures," Pakistan foreign ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam told a weekly briefing Monday.

Mines would not be placed along the entire frontier, and measures would be taken to ensure civilians were not hurt.

Karzai last week summoned Pakistan Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz to Kabul to discuss the border plan and other disputes between the neighbours, telling reporters afterwards the gap between them was widening.

He says the plan will separate families and tribes who straddle the porous border and does not address the root causes of the insurgency, including the militants' sources of funding, training and support he alleges are in Pakistan

 

[salman77]

ISLAMABAD (AFP) - Pakistan's foreign minister said the country would look at other options before going ahead with a plan to mine its border with Afghanistan, after talks with his Canadian counterpart.
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Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri said Pakistan would look at alternative ways to block militants crossing from Pakistan to fight in Afghanistan's worsening insurgency.

"Before we finalise we will definitely give due consideration as the objective of Pakistan and Canada is same, that is, to make sure that the unwanted movement is controlled," said Kasuri at a joint press conference with Canadian Foreign Minister Peter MacKay.

"We will be very happy to receive suggestions from Canada."

Pakistan, which is not a signatory to the Ottawa Treaty against the use of landmines, came up with the proposal after a spate of allegations from Afghanistan about the infiltration of militants.

MacKay, who also met with Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf after flying in from Afghanistan late Monday, opposes the proposal.

Kasuri said Canada would send "experts who will make concrete suggestions to us."

"We have also tasked the Pakistan army to come forward with suggestions," he added.

MacKay said Pakistan could learn from Canada's experience of managing a large border with the United States.

Musharraf "has agreed to explore some other options" on how to manage movement of people and stem activities of the Taliban," he said.

"I am very pleased that the president signalled that he would be open to this discussion and to perhaps having a working group that would focus on the subject matter," MacKay said.

During a visit to southern Afghanistan's troubled city of Kandahar on Monday, MacKay said he would tell Musharraf that mining of the border with Afghanistan was unacceptable.

"I do not accept the use of landmines," MacKay told reporters in the southern province of Kandahar, where about 2,500 Canadian soldiers are facing some of the worst violence of the Taliban-led insurgency.

A global treaty against the use of mines was agreed in Ottawa in 1997.

The accord has been ratified by more than 150 countries but Pakistan is one of 40 countries, including the United States, that have not signed up.

Pakistan said last month it would mine and fence part of the rugged 2,500-kilometre (1,500-mile) border.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai and the United Nations have also rejected the plan, which has prompted at least two demonstrations Sunday in areas of Afghanistan along the border.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/pakistan_canada_lead