Pakistan to deport Afghan refugees

[muse]

The argument for not deporting these innocents is basic - after three generations they are Pakistanis.

Many are mistaken that these harbor "anti-Pakistan" sentiments - these have demonstrated that their home is Pakistan by freely choosing to stay and build their families, their lives and in doing so build Pakistan.

If I may, I should also challenege the notion that they "hate" Pakistan, they most certainly do not, and lets not pin the blame for that coward Khar Zaeed, on these innocents.

Also, with your permission, an observation about the mentality: If anything what these people despise is the Pakistani State's unwillingness to assert itself.

See, in the cultural melieu they interact in most often, standing up for yourself is deeply appreciated - The Pakistani state if it wishes to be appreciated, must assert itself forcefully, with vigour, with a righteous indignation, firm but fair to friends and brutally firm to enemies.

Please remember that these not "other", they are but us, of us. When Pakistanis express a revulsion or fear of the kinds of ethnic nationalists movements propagated in the name of Pakhtun, remember poor people had nothing to do with it, it is the work of the rich politicians who have visions of even greater wealth and privelage dancing in their heads.

We, everybody, everywhere, claims a pride in where we came from, who are our fathers and mothers were - but that does not mean we hate Pakistan, Pakistan that gave everything, from simple naan to opportunity and dignity.

There are bad apples among all peoples and bad apples must be seperated from the good, but we do not destroy all apples because some have gone bad. And after three generations these are Pakistanis, additionally 70% of them trace their ancestry to Nangarhar.

Afghan government of Khar Zaeed or NA is not all Afghans, and we should be careful to not punish people for falling victim to propaganda, it is not as if we were never guilty of that same thing.

Our war is to cleanse our nation of the TTP and any idea or expression of extremism, and we do this because TTP and the purveyors of extremist ideology forced the war upon us, let us not give them a propaganda tool and victory by expressing our fear that will have real consequences on the lives of real innocents.

And notice undiscussed is what will happen to the property of these poor innocents that some want expelled, politicians are making plans for that property, they will confiscate it and enrich themselves and then blame ordinary peoples "sentiment" for this cruel and unmuslim, unPakistani behaviour.

 

[dr.umer]

The argument for not deporting these innocents is basic - after three generations they are Pakistanis.

Afghan refugees have certainly lived here for long but "illegally". So no matter how many generations they produce, they remain 'illegal' irrespective of their period of stay.

Many are mistaken that these harbor "anti-Pakistan" sentiments - these have demonstrated that their home is Pakistan by freely choosing to stay and build their families, their lives and in doing so build Pakistan.

For refugees, freely choosing to stay and building their homes is not a normal activity unless permitted so. If Afghan refugees are living in Pakistan and they get "permission" (which is not possible unless granted nationality) to build houses here, they will certainly build houses here. We can't expect them to build houses in Europe I suppose. If they become Pakistani national, they can and will build houses in Pakistan.

If I may, I should also challenege the notion that they "hate" Pakistan, they most certainly do not, and lets not pin the blame for that coward Khar Zaeed, on these innocents.

No one can claim that all of refugees hate Pakistan but one can't disagree that a large numbers "do not" love Pakistan. Refugees who are present in FATA are there since 2001 when US toppled down Taliban govt. These Afghan refugees just like other Afghans certainly have their own theories that Pakistan shouldn't had helped US to attack Afghanistan. When they are thinking, they are thinking from their Afghan perspective NOT from Pakistan's perspective.

Recently a report was published that 180 Afghans were arrested with maps of different locations of Baluchistan. I wonder why are we closing the our eyes in the fake love of "illegally" settled Afghanis?

Also, with your permission, an observation about the mentality: If anything what these people despise is the Pakistani State's unwillingness to assert itself.

See, in the cultural melieu they interact in most often, standing up for yourself is deeply appreciated - The Pakistani state if it wishes to be appreciated, must assert itself forcefully, with vigour, with a righteous indignation, firm but fair to friends and brutally firm to enemies.

My observation questions "what right" these illegally settled Afghanis have to despise about Pakistani State's unwillingness to assert itself? These Afghanis if so much concerned, should adopt the proper method of becoming "legal" in Pakistan and then they can start taking part in building up of our nation.

Standing up for yourself is appreciated but why are we dying to get this "appreciation" from people who are not even standing up for themselves?

Let "Pakistanis" take care of "Pakistan's" affairs, please.

Please remember that these not "other", they are but us, of us.

Last time when I checked the map of Pakistan, there was no area included in Pakistan's territorial boundary from Afghanistan.

I will check again to clarify this concept of "us".

When Pakistanis express a revulsion or fear of the kinds of ethnic nationalists movements propagated in the name of Pakhtun, remember poor people had nothing to do with it, it is the work of the rich politicians who have visions of even greater wealth and privelage dancing in their heads

We, everybody, everywhere, claims a pride in where we came from, who are our fathers and mothers were - but that does not mean we hate Pakistan, Pakistan that gave everything, from simple naan to opportunity and dignity.

I agree to the part that poor people have nothing to do with ethnic nationalists movement but deportation of "illegal foreign nationals" does not stand equal to ethnic nationalist movement.

Why are we trying to make both issues parallel to each other?

There are bad apples among all peoples and bad apples must be seperated from the good, but we do not destroy all apples because some have gone bad. And after three generations these are Pakistanis, additionally 70% of them trace their ancestry to Nangarhar.

Please allow me to question why are and should we be separating bad people from good ones when in the first place they are not supposed to be there? Why to waste our resources and energy on that useless exercise?

Like all other legally settled Afghans in Pakistan, these "illegal refugees" should ask permission from GOP to become Pakistanis by applying for a Pakistani nationality. Now if GOP allows them to live, they certainly can and if GOP refuses, they should go back. Pakistan is not a fairyland that whoever wishes, irrespective of his "legal status", can live here and can roam freely.

Afghan government of Khar Zaeed or NA is not all Afghans, and we should be careful to not punish people for falling victim to propaganda, it is not as if we were never guilty of that same thing.

Since when "abiding rules and regulation" of a country we live in became "punishment"?

If I go by this definition, I am forced to think why Canadian govt is "punishing" 0.3 million people every year by granting them "legal status" to live in Canada.

Our war is to cleanse our nation of the TTP and any idea or expression of extremism, and we do this because TTP and the purveyors of extremist ideology forced the war upon us,

We first asked GOP and PA should cleanse our nation of the TTP. But when GOP says it is facing difficulty in eliminating TTP due to illegal Afghan refugees in the war zone, we start beating the drum of "humanity".

let us not give them a propaganda tool and victory by expressing our fear that will have real consequences on the lives of real innocents.

It certainly depends upon which dictionary is being consulted to extract the definition of "real innocent", dictionary of "humanity" or dictionary of "Pakistan first". I personally prefer the later.

And notice undiscussed is what will happen to the property of these poor innocents that some want expelled, politicians are making plans for that property, they will confiscate it and enrich themselves and then blame ordinary peoples "sentiment" for this cruel and unmuslim, unPakistani behaviour.

I wonder how much "enrich" politicians will make themselves by buying property in "war zone".

 

[muse]

Dr. Umer

Afghans in Pakistan live in the entirety of pakistan, not just in a "war zone" - by suggesting that their status is less then regular, in a country like pakistan, you will only ensure that less than legal means will apply for "citizenship".

Just how are we to prove that these are not Pakistani? They were born in Pakistan, remember they are 3 generations -- and just how many Pakistanis can prove they are "citizens", how many have passports or national ID cards??

What has gotten into you that we must now require that some group "prove" they love Pakistan -- Why not fazullah to prove that he loves pakistan or nawaz or a host of others - what kind of loyalty test is now be required?

pakistanis in UK also think from a pakistani persepective, should they also be thrown out?

Since when is one required toprove they are a citizen of pakistan to buy or build a house??

What has gotten into you? Today this group, which group tomorrow?? have we not learned from our abandon of Bihari Pakistanis?? has the shame not brought any lesson to us? honestly, who will we abandon next?

 

[Patriot]

Muse,
I am talking about Afghans who are living illegally.If they want to live here, they should get proper citizenship..

 

[dr.umer]

Afghans in Pakistan live in the entirety of pakistan, not just in a "war zone" - by suggesting that their status is less then regular, in a country like pakistan, you will only ensure that less than legal means will apply for "citizenship".

We need to clear up few things here.

Deportation of Afghan refugees from war zone is taking place not all of Afghan nationals living in Pakistan legally as you are falsely trying to portray.

You rightly said their status is less than regular. Same is the case with refugees all over the world. What's new in it?

Deteriorating economy can't take burden of any more refugees and demands sending them back as a standard SOP worldwide. It would be foolish to get emotional.

Just how are we to prove that these are not Pakistani? They were born in Pakistan, remember they are 3 generations -- and just how many Pakistanis can prove they are "citizens", how many have passports or national ID cards??

How can you prove that you are national of a country? Obviously there are some means and ways to do that and it doesn't take rocket science to figure it out.

Just because a small number of Pakistanis don't have passports or national IDs does not mean we should allow people from all over the world to take advantage of this or should we?

Is there any thing named "Law" in our books or not?

What has gotten into you that we must now require that some group "prove" they love Pakistan -- Why not fazullah to prove that he loves pakistan or nawaz or a host of others - what kind of loyalty test is now be required?

No group is required to "prove" that they love Pakistan. If they follow rules and regulations they can stay and as I said previously if GOP and PA thinks that their presence is causing problems in effective operations against TTP, they need to be deported.

pakistanis in UK also think from a pakistani persepective, should they also be thrown out?

"Legal residents and nationals" of UK can't be deported no matter from which perspectives they think. "Illegals" get deported no matter even if they think from British perspective.

What has gotten into you? Today this group, which group tomorrow?? have we not learned from our abandon of Bihari Pakistanis?? has the shame not brought any lesson to us? honestly, who will we abandon next?

We should definitely learn from mistake of abandoning of "our own Pakistani nationals" in past. But are we talking about "Pakistani nationals" here? I don't think so.

All "illegal groups" need to be deported irrespective of their numbers if GOP requires.

 

[ejaz007]

Afghan refugees to be completely repatriated by 2012, Senate told
Wednesday, July 28, 2010


ISLAMABAD: Minister for Sates and Frontier Regions (Safron) Najmuddin Khan on Tuesday told the Senate that there are 1.7 million registered and more than one million unregistered Afghan refugees currently residing in Pakistan.

Responding during the Question Hour session, he said that the Afghan refugees would be completely repatriated with honour to their own country by 2012.The minister said that a tripartite commission set up under the Tripartite Agreement between governments of Pakistan and Afghanistan and the UNHCR is working for return and reintegration of Afghan refugees.

Meanwhile, Interior Minister Rehman Malik informed the House that the National Database and Registration Authority (Nadra) has record of illegal foreigners, adding that the government has decided not to give extension to these people to stay in Pakistan.

He said during last ten years the authority had foiled around 90,000 attempts by applicants for dual or fake Pakistani CNICs, adding that 153 Nadra officials were also arrested and charged in this regard.

Malik said the government has decided to conduct a countrywide survey to determine the total number and locations of foreigners in the country and added that after a specific date to be finalised after completion of the survey, these people would not be allowed to stay in Pakistan anymore. The minister said the Afghan refuges residing in different parts of the country, especially in Khyber Pakhtunkhawa, were involved in acts of terrorism and crimes.

Afghan refugees to be completely repatriated by 2012, Senate told

 

[into the wild]

but what about afghan refugees, who have thrived in karachi and have made some part of karachi their lawless land!!

 

[Nahraf]

Pakistan should not deport any Afghan refugees as the situation in Afghanistan is not stable. We cannot forcibly send Afghan families with women and children without cooperation of Afghan government to their settlement in Afghanistan. Many Afghans were born and raised in Pakistan and they know no other homeland. All those who were born in Pakistan are Pakistani citizens cannot be deported.

 

[into the wild]

Pakistan should not deport any Afghan refugees as the situation in Afghanistan is not stable. We cannot forcibly send Afghan families with women and children without cooperation of Afghan government to their settlement in Afghanistan. Many Afghans were born and raised in Pakistan and they know no other homeland. All those who were born in Pakistan are Pakistani citizens cannot be deported.

are you kidding, many afghans are ghaddars, and they curse on pakistan and they love afghanistan!!!!! they are ungrateful scum

what about their parents, if the borned once gonna stay, then their parents certainly should, so in this way, no afghan can be deported

 

[Ahmad]

are you kidding, many afghans are ghaddars, and they curse on pakistan and they love afghanistan!!!!! they are ungrateful scum

what about their parents, if the borned once gonna stay, then their parents certainly should, so in this way, no afghan can be deported

You can hate us, that is not a problem, but please be careful the type of language you use.

And off course they love afghanistan, it is not a crime. YOu love pakistan and we love afghanistan. YOu can surely be in favour of their deportation, Pakistan is your country and you have every right to decide whatever is best for you, but be a bit more civil in your talks.

 

[Tayyab1796]

You can hate us, that is not a problem, but please be careful the type of language you use.

And off course they love afghanistan, it is not a crime. YOu love pakistan and we love afghanistan. YOu can surely be in favour of their deportation, Pakistan is your country and you have every right to decide whatever is best for you, but be a bit more civil in your talks.

I have alot of sympathy for the refugees from Afghanistan , there are criminals and bad peole in every society . The decision has to be taken about those brought up in Pakistan because 'they have every right to be a Pakistani if they wish' . I think the decision in this regard should be made by Khyber-Paktunkhawa provincial government and not by federal government . KP government can decide should Afghans born in Pakistan be given the citizenship because they are most likely going to bear the additional costs/benefits of such a decision . Also our local Pushtuns should be given a say in this matter as well . A unilateral decision by a single minister in this regard is going to be counter productive. And please not every Afghan is a drug delaer or smuggler , I m a Punjabi hailing from Gujrat and Living in Lahore I know Afghans living in Gujrat and many are poor day labourers.

 

[Spring Onion]

are you kidding, many afghans are ghaddars, and they curse on pakistan and they love afghanistan!!!!! they are ungrateful scum

what about their parents, if the borned once gonna stay, then their parents certainly should, so in this way, no afghan can be deported

They have every right to love their country and also curse any country just like you are cursing their country and them

NOW just SHUT UP when you do not have any grasp over the things you do not know.


Thousands of them are born and raised here in Pakistan for the last over 30 years and by international laws they are now Pakistanis.


On another note silly comments from silly people are making it worst whereas the Govt here is taking some solid steps.

I have reported last week that Govt approved educational quota for futher 2000 Afghan students which is in addition to earlier 6000 besides all those who unregistered Afghans in Pakistan will be issued work permits.

 

[rohailmalhi]

U know its just one sided favour .We keep doing them favours and favours and in return they hate us more and more .
We gave refuge to them in time of War and wht are we getting in return .We are trying to compensate them but alas they are not recognizing our efforts. and keeping their fingers toward Pakistan as if we have done nothing for them.

 

[Ahmad]

U know its just one sided favour .We keep doing them favours and favours and in return they hate us more and more .
We gave refuge to them in time of War and wht are we getting in return .We are trying to compensate them but alas they are not recognizing our efforts. and keeping their fingers toward Pakistan as if we have done nothing for them.

I dont wana open my mouth and make some other pakistani members upset who have shown respect and greatness towards us in their posts. Your comments are your comments, but it doesnt have to reflect the full reality.

 

[Sinnerman108]

I love both Afghanistan and Pakistan, so what would that make me ?

I live in a foreign country with people from Ghazni, Qandahar and as far away as from Farah; and not ONCE did i feel any difference had I been with Pakistanis.

Fact of the matter is that it is almost impossible to draw a live between Afghanistan and Pakistan as geographic entities or as people.

What the Afghans have done and are still doing deserves best respect.

Had this plan seen success, world would have been a very very nicer place.