Pakistan to deport Afghan refugees

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yes Im sure the women of Bengal can attest to the chastity of your army, but I digress

It seems there is some confusion here. I dont point to ethnicity for the purposes of establishing supremacy. A Pakhtun is no greater than a Punjabi and vice versa.
I appeal to ethnicity to point out to Pakhtuns that we are one and the same. That, I feel, is a common sense and logical approach.

I dont care for the Muhamadzai monarchy and their illogical inconsistent approach towards the "Pakhtunistan" issue, especially considering it was one of their own that gave our eastern half away

Your condemnation of my nation as being backwards and poor is a badge of honour. We are poor because we never became colonized and subjagated. It is a twisted sense of irony, but it is what it is.

In this world, the free dont live prosperous

Now frm B.S rant balouchistan to Bengal?

How do u know ? the indians also say we killed 3 million Bengalis?do u believe tht to?which country will rape n kill my millions of its own citizens?


Now when i talk about Ashoka n others u got some sense?Before u were saying ther r all desis nd stuff?
I bet Ashoka,mauryas n others were also of INDO-ARYAN blood!

Ur poverty?Hmm by the definition when Pakistan came into being it has 1 university,1 jute mill and only 1 textile mill?

While Afghanistan was always looted and pileged by passing kings?
From Mongols to persians?frm indians to russians, frm alexander to NATO?
Did Ashoka,mauryas,iranians not RULE U?

U suddenly remember Durand line ?where was ur love when u sold KP to the british>?where was the love?WHERE?

Wat Pushtunistan do u talk of?There are MORE PUSHTUNS in Pakistan thenur entire country!!!
U r welcome to Join Pakistan!

Also wat happened to ur Perisan Pride?
Washed away?

 

[Sher Shah]

To the above:

This boy flame wrote a lot of stuff, which i tried not to respond to but eventually had to.
Ahmed I thought you were the more sensible of the lot.. what happened to you ?

All the complains we have been hearing about Pakistan this and Pakistan that really manifests the small and narrow minded approach which some people here are hell bent to use.

As per SherShah all the talk about ethnic pride etc, Well let me tell you that if you were of pure blood, you may have had a point to be proud of it.
Fact of the matter is neither Afghans nor Pakistanis are of pure blood i.e belong to a single race / tribe.

All of us are a mix if Persian + Central Asians + Local Indians + Turks + Greeks.

I would welcome folks to appreciate that fact, and then try to be proud of blood lines.

Second point raised here is of what Pakistan did for the Afghans ?
Please educate me, did Pakistan had a contract or some thing to take care of Afghanistan that we did not adhere to ?

What are you complaining against ? considering Afghanistan as a country did not recognize Pakistan.

Secondly, what ever little we did during the soviet invasion and hence forth;
if you don't like it please feel free to propose alternatives.

Thirdly, The impact of the struggle is always calculate in terms of refugees that we had to host; this is a beginner's analysis suitable for children. consider the following.

a. Afghan refugees as a lot introduced a lot more violence to Pakistani society than any other factor.

b. Please do appreciate the TERRORISM and sabotage Pakistan had to go through by the hands of KGB and RAW during the Afghan Jihad.

c. Madrassa Haqania ( Akora Khattak) is closer to Islamabad then to Kabul and it was the epicenter of the Afghan Jihad. Heck its closer than the Afghan border.

d. Please do appreciate the transit trade which has always been generously granted to Afghanistan.

e. Please appreciate the fact that a HUGE percentage of articles imported through transit trade agreement are eventually smuggled back into Pakistan.
This has led to systematic murder of local industry and trade policies. ( Acknowledge the fact that at the same time India had very high import duties which gave local Indian industries a chance to grow; Pakistan lost this chance in the name of Afghan Jihad).

f. All through the Afghan Jihad, from early 1980s up-til mid 90s, Pakistan was flooded with smuggled Russian goods. Heck even school writing pads / pens, cosmetics, Air conditioners, auto mobile parts, were dumped into Pakistani market killing local enterprise and business.

g. Food i.e Wheat / rice, Ghee is still smuggled from Pakistan into Afghanistan at the cost of raising food prices for local Pakistani Citizens.

h. Need I say some thing about drugs and weapons ?

i. Pakistan did not just host Pakhtoons, people from North, Ismaili people were all welcomed, hosted, and they did compete with locals for jobs and economics.
During this period can you please highlight any incident of "ethnic" killings etc ?
Heck, MQM has taken more shots then Afghans.

j. Flame said he hated Pakistani getting 10,000 USD jobs for building roads in Kabul. Well Let me ask which Pakistani company has been given contracts for this business ?
the answer is VERY VERY little. The fact of the matter is these contracts are being allotted to Western and Indian companies; whose own employees dare not come to Afghanistan, thus Pakistani engineers / workers have to be employed.

Secondly don't rant about 10,000 USD as if it is your money; would you like to quote what Karzai gov's GDP is ? and how much of this wealth is generated by "afghan business" ?
The fact of the matter is, all this money is coming from outside and then distributed in the forms of contracts to outside companies.

k. Lastly for all the proud scholars that you are, please do tell me today if we break ties, how do you propose to get rid of the invasion by NATO ?
or do you proud people think it is "groovy" with americans ?

After all this; I do not have a micron of malice to Afghanistan or the people of Afghanistan.
here in Saudi Arabia I have friend from Kabul, Kandahar, ghazni even as far away as Farah.
I eat at their restaurants; and spend regular time with them;
and not even ONCE, not for a single second did they ever complain or let me feel unwelcome. I have tried to keep up the same level of love for every brother.

I would request you Afghanis and Pakistanis to be a little more considerate of each other.

We have come this far together, we have defeated one imperial empire together; inshAllah we will defeat the rest too.

This is a destiny Allah has written for us; and if Allah wills, then we shall follow it.

Thank you friend, for your esteemed response. I will respond as best as I can

1. I, undeniably, 100% agree with you that no one in our part of the world is of pure blood. We have, to various degrees, Turkic-Mongoloid, Iranic, Arab, Greek and Indian ancestry. I dont and will nevr dispute this. However, to say that west of the Indus has been historically Iranic and east of the Indus, historically India is not contradictory to my above statement.

Again, I repeat, my reference to ethnicity, is to appeal to Pakhtuns, that whether Lar (your side) or Bar (my side), we are Afghans. We are the same. Thats it.

2. Pakistan has done good for our country and it has done bad. I understand WHY Pakistan does what it does. It ultimately has to serve its own best interests. And when Pakistan was confronted by a nationalist Afghan govt with irredentist claims, it decided that supporting Islamists against the Afghan govt was the best approach. I, as an Afghan, have suffered from this policy. But I will never deny Pakistans right to pursue its self interest. Of course, I as a Pakhtun have my self interest, which is to object to and oppose the interests of the Pakistani state. Ultimately I have rest final blame with those Afghans who decided to serve the interests of Pakistan and allow themselves to be bamboozled by them in the name of Islam

3. I completely acknowledge that sufferings that Pakistanis have had to go through. I have always, and will always take pains to differentiate between the Pakistani security apparatus/elite and Pakistani society and citizenry. Your people suffered as well. I will never deny this. Ultimately you must rest your blame with your govt for sacrificing your society for its own aims.

4. I would rather Afghanistan be a Western backed state than a Pakistan backed one. But neither is a preferable viable option. The Westerners however, their hostility is written in their white faces. Pakistani govt hostility hides behind a beard and topi.

5. I have nothing but love for the people of Pakistan. I hate the fact that it was created, I think partition was a mistake, and as much as you guys may not think of it, every Afghan hates the fact that we lost our territority. This burns us. We will never accept its legitimacy. But I dont hate the people. Our destinies are intertwined. Sometimes I wish that the proposed confederacy between the 2 nations in the 1950s actually happened.

Ultimately understand that I stand for the best interests of Pashtuns and Pashtuns only, Law and Bar, both sides

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The Tajiks, genetically, are incredibly close to Pashtuns
I am not Persian but why would i denounce the fact that my land was part of the great former Persian empire? That doesnt seem logical does it?

Why would I denounce the Parthian and Bactrian ancestry of Pashtuns? Why would I denounce my Iranic nomadic ancestors?

1)Yet we see incredible hatred towards eachother?
Tajiks r closer to Iranians not pushtuns!
2)U r proud of zoarastrian iran?yet u talk of Islamic history?Are u not proud of afghanistan being part of indian empire?Which is said to be the worlds super power of the time?
3)First clear it urself who u r?
Some of ur own say they r Jewish some say Indigenous and now ur claiming Iranian ancestory?

Ur confused!

 

[stormyboy]

persian and iranic PRIDE??? ROFL....i seeing afghan refugee here in france and i seeing how iranian=persian ppl view afghans! they look down on afghans and condsidering afghans as inferior,pathetic race! i even have persian friend and she say we do not like be compared to afghans cuz this ppl does BACHA BAZII.

it was punjabi/indic who took in your ppl with open arms,and even today we treat pashtun in punjab with respect.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Mauryan empire!

Shah r u proud of it?

WE ARE PAKISTANIS NOT DIVIDED BY LANGUAGE,CASTE OR CREED!

I M AS PAKISTANI AS ANY PUNJABI,PUSHTUN,SINDHI,BALTI,HAZARA,PAMERI TAJIK,KASHMIRI!!!

ME AND MY PAKISTANI BROTHERS WILL DIE FOR MOTHER PAKISTAN NOT AFGHANISTAN,IRAN OR INDIA!!

PAKISTAN 1ST AND LAST.

 

[Sher Shah]

Now frm B.S rant balouchistan to Bengal?

How do u know ? the indians also say we killed 3 million Bengalis?do u believe tht to?which country will rape n kill my millions of its own citizens?


Now when i talk about Ashoka n others u got some sense?Before u were saying ther r all desis nd stuff?
I bet Ashoka,mauryas n others were also of INDO-ARYAN blood!

Ur poverty?Hmm by the definition when Pakistan came into being it has 1 university,1 jute mill and only 1 textile mill?

While Afghanistan was always looted and pileged by passing kings?
From Mongols to persians?frm indians to russians, frm alexander to NATO?
Did Ashoka,mauryas,iranians not RULE U?

U suddenly remember Durand line ?where was ur love when u sold KP to the british>?where was the love?WHERE?

Wat Pushtunistan do u talk of?There are MORE PUSHTUNS in Pakistan thenur entire country!!!
U r welcome to Join Pakistan!

Also wat happened to ur Perisan Pride?
Washed away?

1. I never denied our linkages with India. There is a difference between being Indian (you) and having commonalities (me)

2. With all due respect, for a Pakistani to lecture an Afghan on historical resistance is really laughable.

Mongols- Where was the only place in Asia where they suffered a defeat?
Indians- Yes they had the Kushan empire as well. Id like to think we returned the favour to the Indians tenfold though, dont you think?
Persians- We made up half the empire. Rumi born in Afghanistan. Zoroaster born in Afghanistan. Shahnameh written in Afghanistan. Avesta=modern day Afghanistan. Our farsi is the more authentic version. What is your point lol?
Russians- Bye bye ruski
NATO- their time will come too.

3. As I have stated, Im not here to defend our past monarchys treacheory is giving away our land. Im not a Muhamadzai.

4. I dont care for Pakistan, I want a united Pakhtunkhwa, made up of strictly Pakhtuns.

5. Why wouldnt I have pride in our connections with the Persian empire? Why would I reject the contributions to Persian empire that we made? Why would I reject my Iranic roots, my Parthian/Bactrian ancestry etc etc

In conclusion, you fail to differentiate between being sometime and being affiliated. Punjabis are pretty much Indians. Afghans have had interactions with Indians. Its not the same.

 

[Sher Shah]

1)Yet we see incredible hatred towards eachother?
Tajiks r closer to Iranians not pushtuns!
2)U r proud of zoarastrian iran?yet u talk of Islamic history?Are u not proud of afghanistan being part of indian empire?Which is said to be the worlds super power of the time?
3)First clear it urself who u r?
Some of ur own say they r Jewish some say Indigenous and now ur claiming Iranian ancestory?

Ur confused!

1. Hatred? Coming out of a 30 year civil war there are bound to be issues. Tajiks and Pashtuns are THE MOST GENETICALLY RELATED people. There is a HUGE difference GENETICALLY, RELIGIOUSLY and to some extent CULTURALLY between Tajiks and Persians. We speak each others languages and have inter married for generations. We came out of a 30 year civil war with ethnic based militias, and NOT A SINGLE ONE demanded separation.

2. Absolutely Im proud of our Zorastrian heritage, as I am of our Persian one, our Turkic one, our Indian one, our Islamic one etc This is not a zero-sum analysis.

3. Pashtuns are descended from eastern Iranic nomadic tribes, whose historical dissolution led to the creation of the Pashtun tribal confederacy. Speficially, Epthalites, Saka Scythians and Kushans. All Iranic. Do we have Turkic or Indic blood in us? Im sure. But are we Indic or Turkic? No. Do you realize the difference? Or is your reading comprehension faulty?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

persian and iranic PRIDE??? ROFL....i seeing afghan refugee here in france and i seeing how iranian=persian ppl view afghans! they look down on afghans and condsidering afghans as inferior,pathetic race! i even have persian friend and she say we do not like be compared to afghans cuz this ppl does BACHA BAZII.

it was punjabi/indic who took in your ppl with open arms,and even today we treat pashtun in punjab with respect.

Brother dont insult anybdy they r our brothers and we were and are there hosts n they are our guests also Pakistan doesnt belong to punjabs but Pakistanis!

We are as proud of Captain Sher Khan as Major Aziz Bhatti or Balochi Lt.Saif ullah.

GOD BLESS PAKISTAN!

 

[Sher Shah]

persian and iranic PRIDE??? ROFL....i seeing afghan refugee here in france and i seeing how iranian=persian ppl view afghans! they look down on afghans and condsidering afghans as inferior,pathetic race! i even have persian friend and she say we do not like be compared to afghans cuz this ppl does BACHA BAZII.

it was punjabi/indic who took in your ppl with open arms,and even today we treat pashtun in punjab with respect.

Again we have some one here with reading comprehension issues.

I grew up with Iranians here in Toronto. Some of my best friends are Iranians.

I understand their animosity towards Afghans. I would never indicate that I am one and the same, as these Iranians.

There is a big difference however, between solidarity with todays Iranians, and a historical solidarity with our shared Persian Culture/History and referencing to our Iranic ancestry

IRANIC is not the same as IRANIAN

When you realize the difference, consider yourself fit for re-entry into this discussion

 

[Sher Shah]

Mauryan empire!

Shah r u proud of it?

WE ARE PAKISTANIS NOT DIVIDED BY LANGUAGE,CASTE OR CREED!

I M AS PAKISTANI AS ANY PUNJABI,PUSHTUN,SINDHI,BALTI,HAZARA,PAMERI TAJIK,KASHMIRI!!!

I N MY OTHER PAKISTANI BROTHER WILL DIE FOR MOTHER PAKISTAN NOT AFGHANISTAN,IRAN OR INDIA!!

PAKISTAN 1ST AND LAST.

Yes Im proud of all my history and those who contributed to it. Please let go of this strawman you have created.

No one is denying the historical linkages between Afghans and Indians. The fact remains though, that Afghans are not Indians. Pakistanis (east of the Indus) are. You are desi, I am not. I speak Pashto, you speak Urdu/Hindi.

I am central Asian, you are South Asian. etc etc.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Thank you friend, for your esteemed response. I will respond as best as I can

1. I, undeniably, 100% agree with you that no one in our part of the world is of pure blood. We have, to various degrees, Turkic-Mongoloid, Iranic, Arab, Greek and Indian ancestry. I dont and will nevr dispute this. However, to say that west of the Indus has been historically Iranic and east of the Indus, historically India is not contradictory to my above statement.

Again, I repeat, my reference to ethnicity, is to appeal to Pakhtuns, that whether Lar (your side) or Bar (my side), we are Afghans. We are the same. Thats it.

2. Pakistan has done good for our country and it has done bad. I understand WHY Pakistan does what it does. It ultimately has to serve its own best interests. And when Pakistan was confronted by a nationalist Afghan govt with irredentist claims, it decided that supporting Islamists against the Afghan govt was the best approach. I, as an Afghan, have suffered from this policy. But I will never deny Pakistans right to pursue its self interest. Of course, I as a Pakhtun have my self interest, which is to object to and oppose the interests of the Pakistani state. Ultimately I have rest final blame with those Afghans who decided to serve the interests of Pakistan and allow themselves to be bamboozled by them in the name of Islam

3. I completely acknowledge that sufferings that Pakistanis have had to go through. I have always, and will always take pains to differentiate between the Pakistani security apparatus/elite and Pakistani society and citizenry. Your people suffered as well. I will never deny this. Ultimately you must rest your blame with your govt for sacrificing your society for its own aims.

4. I would rather Afghanistan be a Western backed state than a Pakistan backed one. But neither is a preferable viable option. The Westerners however, their hostility is written in their white faces. Pakistani govt hostility hides behind a beard and topi.

5. I have nothing but love for the people of Pakistan. I hate the fact that it was created, I think partition was a mistake, and as much as you guys may not think of it, every Afghan hates the fact that we lost our territority. This burns us. We will never accept its legitimacy. But I dont hate the people. Our destinies are intertwined. Sometimes I wish that the proposed confederacy between the 2 nations in the 1950s actually happened.

Ultimately understand that I stand for the best interests of Pashtuns and Pashtuns only, Law and Bar, both sides

Lar or Bar ! ( for those who don't know Pashto, he is referring to right side or left side of indus river)

I know one thing my Father raised me to be a Muslim before any thing else. This remains the basis of upbringing on this side.
I am not sure if that the prime basis of your upbringing.

Put this in the equation, and almost all your replies and posts are negated.

 

[stormyboy]

Again we have some one here with reading comprehension issues.

I grew up with Iranians here in Toronto. Some of my best friends are Iranians.

I understand their animosity towards Afghans. I would never indicate that I am one and the same, as these Iranians.

There is a big difference however, between solidarity with todays Iranians, and a historical solidarity with our shared Persian Culture/History and referencing to our Iranic ancestry

IRANIC is not the same as IRANIAN

When you realize the difference, consider yourself fit for re-entry into this discussion

I know difference between iranic and iranian....TRUST ME! i have seen iranians comapred to afghans....there is a huge difference.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Eventually, I would like to express my love with none better than this

romi badlay, shaami badlay, badla hindustaan
tu bhi aye ferzend-e-kuhistaaN ! apni khudi pehchan !
apni khudi pehchaan
o ghafil afghan !

mausam achha, paani waafir, miTTi bhi zerkhez
jis ne apna khayt na sayNcha wo kaisa dehqaan !
apni khudi pehchaan
o ghafil afghan !

ooNchi jis ki lehr nahi hai wo kaisa derya !
jis ki havaein tund nahi hein wo kaisa toofaan !
apni khudi pehchaan
o ghafil afghan !

DhoonD k apni khaak mein jis ne paya apna-aap
us banday ki dehqaani per sultaani qurbaan !
apni khudi pehchaan
o ghafil afghan !

tayree bay-ilmi ne rakh li bay-ilmoN ki laaj
aalim faazil baych rahay hein apna deen iman !
apni khudi pehchaan
o ghafil afghan !

Allama Iqbal / Zarb-e-Kalim

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

1. I never denied our linkages with India. There is a difference between being Indian (you) and having commonalities (me)

Have u read my older post?

2. With all due respect, for a Pakistani to lecture an Afghan on historical resistance is really laughable.

Wats really laughable is a afghan being proud of Iran while iranians looking down on afghanis!

Mongols- Where was the only place in Asia where they suffered a defeat?

Here is a link to correct ur History!
The Mongol Empire - All Empires

Mongols only lost to Egyptians!They sold iranians etc remmember?

Indians- Yes they had the Kushan empire as well. Id like to think we returned the favour to the Indians tenfold though, dont you think?

Dont know friend ask any indian or pakistani rajput!

Persians- We made up half the empire.

Being ruled by another nation is not a matter of pride!

Rumi born in Afghanistan.

Rumi was irani Farsi! Again just bcoz of afghanistan being a part of iran!

By ur logic Todays Pakistan was also a part of Iran,greek empire(just like afghanistan),sythians etc.

Zoroaster born in Afghanistan.

I dont think so!How many afghans follow zoarastrianism?any artifacts found?any remaining followers?It was found in IRAN!

Shahnameh written in Afghanistan.

By a Irani!

Avesta=modern day Afghanistan. Our farsi is the more authentic version. What is your point lol?

I though u liked Pushto
Here... Prove u nd the North indians r genetically similiar

Between 2000–1200 BC, a branch of Indo-European-speaking tribes known as the Aryans began migrating into the region. This is part of a dispute in regards to the Aryan invasion theory. They appear to have split into old Persian peoples, Nuristani, and Indian groups at an early stage, possibly between 1500 and 1000 BC in what is today Afghanistan or much earlier as eastern remnants of the Indo-Aryans drifted much further west as with the Mitanni. The Aryans dominated the modern day plateau, while the Indo-Aryans ultimately headed towards the Indian subcontinent. The Avesta is believed to have been composed possibly as early as 1800 BC and written in ancient Ariana (Aryana), the earliest name of Afghanistan which indicates an early link with today's Iranian tribes to the west, or adjacent regions in Central Asia or northeastern Iran in the 6th century BC.[6] Due to the similarity between early Avestan and Sanskrit (and other related early Indo-European languages such as Latin and Ancient Greek), it is believed that the split between the old Persians and Indo-Aryan tribes had taken place at least by 1000 BC. There are striking similarities between the Old Afghan language of Avestan and Sanskrit, which may support the notion that the split was contemporary with the Indo-Aryans living in Afghanistan at a very early stage.

Russians- Bye bye ruski

Thank ISI,SSG,Cia (for funding) and 100000 mujahedeen frm all over the world who also married in afghanistan!
U couldnt have done it without the support,training,funding and weapons!

NATO- their time will come too.

Dont u support US invasion>?Ahmed(tajik) does ...

3. As I have stated, Im not here to defend our past monarchys treacheory is giving away our land. Im not a Muhamadzai.

Should have raised ur voices when u were selling it>?

4. I dont care for Pakistan, I want a united Pakhtunkhwa, made up of strictly Pakhtuns.

I want a space ship!

5. Why wouldnt I have pride in our connections with the Persian empire? Why would I reject the contributions to Persian empire that we made? Why would I reject my Iranic roots, my Parthian/Bactrian ancestry etc etc

Good for u!First clarify if ur frm the lost tribe of israel or iranic like north indian!

In conclusion, you fail to differentiate between being sometime and being affiliated. Punjabis are pretty much Indians. Afghans have had interactions with Indians. Its not the same.

The above statement tht i gave proves something else.

 

[Sher Shah]

Eventually, I would like to express my love with none better than this

romi badlay, shaami badlay, badla hindustaan
tu bhi aye ferzend-e-kuhistaaN ! apni khudi pehchan !
apni khudi pehchaan
o ghafil afghan !

mausam achha, paani waafir, miTTi bhi zerkhez
jis ne apna khayt na sayNcha wo kaisa dehqaan !
apni khudi pehchaan
o ghafil afghan !

ooNchi jis ki lehr nahi hai wo kaisa derya !
jis ki havaein tund nahi hein wo kaisa toofaan !
apni khudi pehchaan
o ghafil afghan !

DhoonD k apni khaak mein jis ne paya apna-aap
us banday ki dehqaani per sultaani qurbaan !
apni khudi pehchaan
o ghafil afghan !

tayree bay-ilmi ne rakh li bay-ilmoN ki laaj
aalim faazil baych rahay hein apna deen iman !
apni khudi pehchaan
o ghafil afghan !

Allama Iqbal / Zarb-e-Kalim

can you translate this please?

and btw, lar aw bar refers to both sides of the durand not indus river

---------- Post added at 02:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 AM ----------

I know difference between iranic and iranian....TRUST ME! i have seen iranians comapred to afghans....there is a huge difference.

no you dont. its obvious you dont. study the difference and then re enter the conversation