Pakistan to buy old F-16s from Jordan - Chapter closed for new F-16s blk-52s from US

[shah1398]

Hope they refuse to do so...!!!

Bro Jordan has already sold us 12 plus F-16s. Why would they say No this time? Like U want them to say No then how do U suggest we cater for those 190 aircraft that are suppose to be retired till 2020? Even with Thunder production line at full speed, we would still need plug ins.

This is actually a very smart move. The Jordanian F-16s are block 30 (c/d models). PAF has the spares to fly them for 5 years without US assistance. Turkish upgrades can bring them to block 52 equivalent and they will be as good as newer block 52s on an electronic level. They may not have the same powerful engine but it is certainly more than adequate (still a very powerful engine) PAF needs a stop gap and the plan was always to get more used F-16. For PAF, its far more cost effective to replace mirage f-7s with a mox of new jf-17 amd used F-16s. Even for those not in favor of new F-16s for PAF, used ones are still avery smart move.

Exactly. But with upgrade Not involving installation of CFTs I dont think we would that much need a powerful engine for these birds.

 

[war&peace]

Sir,

There are always those apologists for the air force---. When you get paid---given a uniform---job security---house---medical--car and chaufer---and the only thing that you need to do is to keep the air force somewhat in line---it is not asking too much.

A lie many pakistan tell is about Pressler sanctions----. The Pressler sanctions were no surprise---him and his butt buddy Solariz had tried it multiple times---.

Everybody knew that the sanctions were coming--only those in the Paf did not believe in that---just like this time.

The procurement window after 9/11 was wasted not for lack of funds---but PAF had analyzed that there would be " no more threats from india " so it was not considered prudent to buy a potent air superiority fighter on a fastrak.

That is why they were lollygagging for 4 years straight.

The poster who say there was no money---must see how the funds for the awacs became available?

The issue of money is the most exaggerated one just to cover their own failures. If investigated seriously, these are acts of criminal negligence and a few Air Chiefs should be facing court martials at least. When the nations pays you through its taxes, you have to perform and deliver....I have a suggestion that there should be a TV in air chiefs office and home and a few good news channels only and he must be made to watch it 2 hrs twice day and must report to CJCSC or COAS and no plastic models of airplane to play with in the office time . When the opportunity arrives, one must act quickly. It is like a job vacancy in your dream organisation, once announced you have to apply immediately as it will not be there always. They should have known that the departure of USSR from Afghanistan marks the end of US interest in the region so the policies can change, then after 9/11 they got another opportunity and they failed again, I guess Air Chief should never a be GD pilot ...

 

[Maj.Osmani]

j-31 expected in 2018-19 ?

No I belive 2025.

 

[volatile]

For me this is a failure of general systems in Pakistan ,for every country Foreign policies, Defence ,economic policies are linked with each other ,the classical case of decision being made in isolation ignoring the facts on ground ,Why i say this PAF most interactions would have been with Lock Heed Martin people who will simply say we wanted to sell and some time can do little lobby but not massive for 8 or 16 aeroplanes for assembly lines they can ,Its all about economics and nothing else .F16 was a bad signal from 2015 why US interest to PAK is limiting and on top of that we are saying US is our enemy now .Grow Up guys its not a marriage its more like interest stand when one party losses interest the stand is over .In our case both parties have no interest or different interest level . F16 i dont like it bcas of these reasons ,its time to make smaller force and think some thing else .To the people who says inducting new platform will be a challenge hell ya it is but at the moment 4 major types are in service .

F16 US
F17 China /Local Partners
F7 China
Mirages / France/Local /Black Markets
MIL Helicopters Russia

So after Mirages French lines will be closed ,For helicopters we are already working with Russian partners so Its the vision or thinking beyond F16.


By the way some recent information.

>> Update regarding Pakistan Defense . . .
1- Doors for F-16 Deal with USA have been Closed,
2- Pakistan is in talks with Jordan for surplus F-16,Expected deal already been Approved by Obama Administration.
3- Pakistan in Talks with Russia for 5th(4.5 gen) Jets.
4- Pakistan is also in talks with France for Fighter Air crafts.
Pakistan's Secretary for Defense Lt.Gen(R) Alam Khatak Told Pakistan's upper House/Senate Committee for Defense.

Strategic Journal

 

[Shah Xaib]

why dont we buy any other jets?? is there a problem with piloting?

 

[Maj.Osmani]

why dont we buy any other jets?? is there a problem with piloting?

No but there is no option available.
Russia can't sell to Pakistan reason Indian pressure and payment terms.
China producing copies of Russian Jets so they can't re-export.
US again payment issues and very expensive Jets same case with France.

 

[Zain Malik]

why dont we buy any other jets?? is there a problem with piloting?

No Pilots are ready there is a problem with our ACM..!!!

China producing copies of Russian Jets so they can't re-export.

Why not JH-7B.....No Russian engines no avionics completely Chinese and a true fighter bomber...!!!

 

[Maj.Osmani]

No Pilots are ready there is a problem with our ACM..!!!


Why not JH-7B.....No Russian engines no avionics completely Chinese and a true fighter bomber...!!!

OK brother Go ahead purchase it and please take Zarvan with you for expert advice.

 

[Zain Malik]

OK brother Go ahead purchase it and please take Zarvan with you for expert advice.

No Problem..I will call him...We have better understanding @Zarvan

 

[Maj.Osmani]

No Problem..I will call him...We have better understanding @Zarvan

May be Mastan Sir also prove helpfull.

 

[khanmubashir]

Brother MLU upgradation in Turkey a good idea but still these upgraded Jets not equalent to Block 51 + at any condition.

these jraf f16s r from late 90s so only diiference b/w them and new 1s is avionics/missiles which we can get from turkey they have made some sys for f16s which r better then american 1s

View attachment 310206


Current Jordanian F16 that PAF might buy.

They look very much like the F16 PAF acquired way back in 1990. NON bvr capable.

it look like they need a major refurb and MLU to get this level below

but old 1s r sexy and bvr depends on missile which can be installed we can other nato missiles they r allowed by usa if not aim series

 

[araz]

No Pilots are ready there is a problem with our ACM..!!!


Why not JH-7B.....No Russian engines no avionics completely Chinese and a true fighter bomber...!!!

The problem is not with the ACM. The problem is with all the armchair generals who float ideas without any technical know how.
Just so you know the JH7 series has been discontinued and the emphasis of the Chinese is on J11 series. When you discontinue developments of an indigenous platform in favour of a foreign programme it means that you have accepted that the programme has reached the maximum utility that it could have provided. The reason USA can continue to use planes like the A10 and the Phantoms in SEAD/DEAD roles is because the strength of their AIRFORCE is such and its quality so top notch that it would achieve air superiority in a short space of time with its air and other assetts. PAF and indeed other AFs cannot do so and therefore the tactics that work for the USAF cannot be applied exactly. So the basic ideas remain the same but execution is slightly different.
PAF is a relatively small airforce with limited budget. Our strategy needs to reflect this aspect. Therefore the SEAD element needs to utilize small single engined aircrafts with SOWs. We then need the same ACs for AD duties as well.
Iwould willingly grant that a twin engined bird has its own utility for aerial defence and Patrolling of see area but in the rapidly changing Indo Pak war theatre there will still be a need forMR ACs rather than dedicated single purpose ACs which is what the JH7 series would have been good for.
PAF has admittedly made huge blunders in its acquisitions and the fallout of not picking the M2Ks still reverberates in the mind of most. However I still maintain that the reasons for not picking up the JH7 were sound and based on evaluations which painted it in a very poor light.
A

 

[volatile]

PAF has admittedly made huge blunders in its acquisitions and the fallout of not picking the M2Ks still reverberates in the mind of most.

Any idea how different or difficult /different if some how we can land some old Mirage 2000 frames to replace Mirages 3/5 of overs .Also this has been posted by several members that we handed over France to Indian`s .Alas any ways what done is done ,new platform is a must why we need a dedicated AD role lange range BVR capable ,lets not forget that one SU35 can take work load of 2 F17 or 1.5 F16

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

F16 is about to be discontinued as well.

One purpose of a heavy strike aircraft with long legs to take the battle away from predicted areas of strike of a medium or a light aircraft.

That will make the enemy move its concentrated assets and disperse them farther out---thus making the line of defense thinner & possibly weaker.

The main emphasis during WW2 before the start of the invasion by the allies was to create an illusion / fake move so that the enemy moves its concentrated weapons and troops from a certain area to another---thus weakening its position and permitting a successful strike.

In an aircraft like a JF17---it has very limited over the seas abilities---to travel the maximum distance---it has to fly close to the shoreline---thus becoming a focus of enemy defenses.

A JH7B type aircraft can fly 300---400 miles away from the enemy shoreline---fly as far as it can get---launch its weapons from a standoff distance at targets that were never felt vulnerable before.

The issue over here and the vote for a long legged aircraft is to strike those areas that have never been stricken before---.

The reason being---the public of that area will be in a massive panic after the strikes that it would create a major chaos in the community---and chaos is a pre-cursor to anarchy and other problems.

So---it is simply not a SEAD or a DEAD mission issue over here. When this aircraft can carryy 12 BVR's and can host an aesa radar with around 1500-1600 T/R modules---can act as your Growler aircraft---a pointman when carrying out anti ship missions etc---.

A futue carrier of air launched Babur cruise missiles----the utilities are endless---but for a pakistan to accept his errors is like impossible.

The utility of any machine is a frame of mind---and without a bomber---an air force is incomplete.

 

[Shah Xaib]

No but there is no option available.
Russia can't sell to Pakistan reason Indian pressure and payment terms.
China producing copies of Russian Jets so they can't re-export.
US again payment issues and very expensive Jets same case with France.

If we can start jf 17 project in 500m then we can start production of another fighter too.. which we can export too