Pakistan to acquire six submarines from China

[SEAL]

i dont really think its an accurate news....
i kno PN need subs more than ever, but 6!?
4 max, BUT IF they are going for 6 then its stupid!
PN got only 1200km coast line to protect.

Two Agosta-70s be retire karni hain.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

PN wants 7 subs not 6...
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...akistan/16-navy+to+buy+seven+submarines-hs-04

In talks with china and france...........maybe theyd buy half of em from china and half frm france..........while 4 more Type 54 ships will sweeten te deal.


Thts 3+2+7 submarines........ 10 with MESMA AIP.

The Agosta 90B, also known as the Khalid-class, is a modernised design built for the Pakistan Navy. Various modifications give lower acoustic signature, lower diving depth, improved battery range and performance. Greater automation also allows the crew to be reduced from 54 to 36. The submarine can be armed with up to 16 torpedoes and SM39 Exocet anti-ship missiles.[2] The SM39 was test-fired from a Khalid-class submarine in 2001.[3]
All of the Pakistani SSKs have been equipped with AshMs which can be fired while submerged. The three Khalid class boats are capable of firing Exocet AshM, while the older Agostas and Daphnes have been equipped with US Harpoon AshMs. PNS/M Hamza (third Agosta-90B) is equipped with the MESMA Air Independent Propulsion system, PNS/M Khalid and PNS/M Saad will be upgraded with the same MESMA AIP system in the near future. The Pakistan Navy also plans to integrate the Boeing Harpoon Block II on to its Agosta-90Bs; and currently the Agosta-90Bs are capable of firing Blackshark torpedoes.

Agosta 70s are also being upgraded with millions of $$$.

P.S=Even if we buy chinese subs we can further upgrade n modify em frm the knowledge we gained by building customised/upgraded agosta 90Bs in the past.

 

[farhan_9909]

cant we build our own.just buy the AIP from anyother state,

instead of 7.

we should invest 3 subs money into R&D of developing our own sub and 4 later manufacture our own

 

[owais.usmani]

there is NO deal as yet - only talks have started - this is merely indian propoganda to justify their own arms buildup!!!

Absolutely. Had this news been true, this thread would have been opened by a Pakistani member, not an Indian.

 

[Penguin]

Pakistan begins submarine procurement talks with China

By Farhan Bokhari
11 June 2010

China's vice-president, Zheng Dejiang, met with civil and military leaders in Pakistan on 9-10 June in a visit surrounded by reports of a major new defence deal under discussion that would see Pakistan buying at least three Chinese submarines.

Speaking to Jane's on 9 June, a senior Pakistani government official said the Pakistan Navy began discussions with "the Chinese authorities last month for an eventual submarine deal" for up to three or four boats, but declined to specify the types or terms under discussion.

China has a long history of helping Pakistan overcome shortages of key military hardware, notably the hardware it was denied by the Western world following sanctions imposed from 1990 in response to Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme.

The Pakistani government official who spoke to Jane's on 9 June said that it was vital for the navy to acquire more submarines to offset "the pressure we will definitely come under" due to the rapid expansion of India's naval capability. "Our Chinese brothers have always come to our help and we are asking them for assistance once again," he said.

Although neither China nor Pakistan have ever publicly revealed the terms of their past financial arrangements, defence analysts say that China continues to offer long-term loans to Pakistan on concessional terms, allowing the country to continue with its military hardware purchases.

Non-subscriber extract from JDW
Pakistan begins submarine procurement talks with China

"at least three" (=3+)
"up to three or four" (worst case = 2-3 or best case= 3-4)

Sounds to me much like a buy 3 from China + build 1 locally in Pakistan (much as the F22P deal)

Add to this 3 Agosta90B with AIP and you have 7.

 

[Mani2020]

I m not in favor of purchasing subs from China ,Purchasing more frigates form China is fine but in case of submarine there are better options available ,Chinese subs quality is not upto the par when we compare them to the Germany ones or French (even if they cost bit much) at most if PN have to buy these from China then atleast a combination from China and France/Germany would be better option

 

[applesauce]

I m not in favor of purchasing subs from China ,Purchasing more frigates form China is fine but in case of submarine there are better options available ,Chinese subs quality is not upto the par when we compare them to the Germany ones or French (even if they cost bit much) at most if PN have to buy these from China then atleast a combination from China and France/Germany would be better option

i agree, german subs are very fine however they costs a boat load(haha no pun intended), i think what is worth consideration though is that, will Germany give tot and what level of tot, also the costs is of great concern due to pakistan's financial situation. what pakistan has been doing and must continue to do until the economy improves(if ever) is to get something cheap but "good enough" and many times in the past the Chinese items fit that bill i mean who else can provide billions of loans with no strings and sanction proof. perhaps pakistan can stend some money buying European for the high end and buy several chinese for the cheaper lower end or as the article suggests perhaps a chinese built hull with western systems.

 

[ANG]

Hi, Pakistan does not have the money to purchase western subs, nor does it have the diplomatic leverage or standing to get these western boats. They can only purchase Chinese subs via soft loans or grants from China; there is no other option. I personally think a Chinese sub, with a western AIP and western systems would be just as good. Take care.

 

[Donatello]

New-gen submarines: Pakistan steals a march on India ​

Ajay Banerjee/TNS
New Delhi, January 20

Even as India has announced its intent to have new generation diesel-electric submarines, Pakistan has gone ahead and signed a deal with long-standing ally China to produce submarines with the same technology that India wants.

The Pakistan Navy and China’s Ship Building Corporation signed a deal that got the seal of finality during the visit of Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao to Pakistan last December. Indian security agencies in know of the matter have cautioned the government that this could tilt the balance in favour of the Pakistan Navy in the Arabian Sea.

India is looking to spend Rs 50,000 crore to acquire six new diesel-electric submarines that will be equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology to boost operational capabilities. Conventional diesel-electric submarines have to surface every couple of days for oxygen to recharge their batteries. A submarine using AIP technology can stay submerged for 12-15 days at a stretch, thus increasing its capacity to hunt down enemy warships without being detected. Nuclear powered submarines can stay underwater for even longer periods.

Under the latest agreement, China will co-produce six AIP technology submarines with Pakistan. Currently, the neighbouring navy has only one submarine -- PNS Hamza. Pakistan is also looking at an AIP system produced by a French or German maker to fit on to the Chinese made hull of the vessel, said an official.

What is worrying for India is the known pace of Chinese construction. China could well provide three-four new generation AIP technology submarines to the neigbouring country within two years. The Chinese had supplied four frigates to the Pakistan Navy in 18 months flat! The two nations have also co-produced the single-engine J-17 fighter that was inducted into the Pakistan Air Force last summer.

For India, it could take upto five years to induct its first such submarine, as it will have to go through the process of trying out offers from various global bidders before ordering the vessels.

The Indian Navy has a bigger fleet in terms of number but it is dwindling and will be down to eight conventional diesel-electric vessels by 2015. By then, the first of the six under-construction Scorpene submarines will join the fleet followed by five more till 2018. The AIP technology vessels will follow later. Going by estimates, Pakistan would complete the induction of its fleet of AIP technology vessels by the time India starts off with its line of such submarines.

However, India will maintain its edge over Pakistan in case of nuclear-powered submarines. It hopes to induct the Akula-II Class attack submarine K-152 Nerpa on a 10-year lease from Russia in the next few weeks while the first indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant is expected to be inducted by early-2012.

Indian Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma has already declared that nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant would be on ‘deterrent patrol’ to provide the ability of a retaliatory ‘second strike’ if the country faces a nuclear attack.

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Nation

Dear sir,

like your brethren and fellow government men, stop spreading false and in-accurate news.

Your enemy has not 1 but 5 active Subs, with 3 being AIP equipped or in the last phases of being retrofitted.

 

[alimobin memon]

who says chinese subs aren't good, if they weren't good chinese had bought western subs for their sea space.

 

[Mani2020]

i agree, german subs are very fine however they costs a boat load(haha no pun intended), i think what is worth consideration though is that, will Germany give tot and what level of tot, also the costs is of great concern due to pakistan's financial situation. what pakistan has been doing and must continue to do until the economy improves(if ever) is to get something cheap but "good enough" and many times in the past the Chinese items fit that bill i mean who else can provide billions of loans with no strings and sanction proof. perhaps pakistan can stend some money buying European for the high end and buy several chinese for the cheaper lower end or as the article suggests perhaps a chinese built hull with western systems.

There was no hard feeling from my side brother ,i know how China helped us and we will keep purchasing defence equipment form China but my point was Chinese Frigates,aircrafts and tanks etc are the things that can compete with western counterparts but when it comes to Subs they don't have mastered it yet although there are many local sub's serving PLAN but still there quality is bit shaky as already discussed with many Chinese members in another thread .

So my point is even if German/French subs are costly you can buy 3 instead of 4 or 4 instead of 5 atleast it assures you the quality . we can buy it later form China when we need till then let them master in this field

 

[ANG]

Hi, I would not discount Chinese subs that quickly. Kindly please recall that China is now building stealth jet fighters. They have also bought Russian Kilo class subs in the past, and have probably pulled them apart to learn.

Moreover, if you look at the link below, their conventional subs have gone though quite a few interations in the past few years, and their technology is starting to mature and develop.

Chinese Navy

A Chinese sub with western AIP, western navigation system (SUBTICs in the Agosta-90B), and Western attack systems would be fine for the PN's requirements. In addition, the PN would find it much easier and possible to modify these Chinese subs to launch Babur based LACMs. I highly doubt Germany would allow the PN to modify the U214 to launch a nuclear tipped LACM. Well my personal opinion at least... Take care.

 

[Black Knight]

Even as India has announced its intent to have new generation diesel-electric submarines, Pakistan has gone ahead and signed a deal with long-standing ally China to produce submarines with the same technology that India wants.
The Pakistan Navy and China’s Ship Building Corporation signed a deal that got the seal of finality during the visit of Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao to Pakistan last December. Indian security agencies in know of the matter have cautioned the government that this could tilt the balance in favour of the Pakistan Navy in the Arabian Sea.

India is looking to spend Rs 50,000 crore to acquire six new diesel-electric submarines that will be equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology to boost operational capabilities. Conventional diesel-electric submarines have to surface every couple of days for oxygen to recharge their batteries. A submarine using AIP technology can stay submerged for 12-15 days at a stretch, thus increasing its capacity to hunt down enemy warships without being detected. Nuclear powered submarines can stay underwater for even longer periods.

 

[ANG]

Hi, there is already a thread existing on this topic. Take care.

NewGen submarines: Pakistan Signs deal with China to co-produce six subs with AIP

 

[Black Knight]

ok sorry brother i did not know that