Pakistan - The future ?

[untitled]

First of all we definitely need to change our mentality here. Why should we join any regional block? Why not make it attractive for other countries to join a Pakistan-centric block?

 

[waz]

The whole of Asia period. The far east Asian states have a huge amount to offer all Asian countries.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Contemporary Iranians hold nothing in common with central Asia. Yes Persians once ruled central Asia but now they are on a divergent paths primarily because of religion. If any thing modern Pakistan has been ruled by Tajiks, Afghans and Uzbeks. There is also religious affinity and once Tashkent and Samarkand were considered cultural and spiritual capitals of the region. It has been Soviet Union and Pakistan's orientation towards India that has created a division which if Pakistan takes leadership can be healed and a healthy relationship could be achieved.

Pakistan can NEVER EVER form a block with india. It would never ever be allowed by the main power brokers in both Pakistan and india. Asking Pakistan to form a block with india is like asking the Palestinians to form an alliance with the israelis. Impossible and extremely ridiculous to even suggest. Two nations always on the verge of war and nuking eachother and some here suggest an alliance???? It' the height of madness. Ideally and geographically speaking, Pakistan should form a regional block with the Central Asian/Islamic nations but the Khazakhstan/Uzbekistan rivalry will prevent this. The only realistic block Pakistan can form is with Iran/Turkey/ Middle East and China. The Arab countries and China have always helped us financially and in many other ways. The bond is very strong and Pakistan has always had natural leanings to these nations and these nations only.

 

[Ceri]

Central Asian countries are Turkic in name sadly. These ex-soviet countries are heavily influenced and to some degree under the umbrella of Russia, still.
The only Turkic country that is truly close to Turkey is Azarbaijan, rest is out of our grib.

Some months ago i opened a thread suggesting alliance between the most reliable, developed and stable muslim countries - Turkey, Malaysia and Indonesia. These three muslim countries you want to look at, especially Turkey and Indonesia. If Turkey could free itself from NATO's grib in the near future, this alliance becomes highly feasible.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Few thoughts on this. This is looking at strategic vision therefore you have to look beyond the immediate problems. So a range of 50 years plus should be on your thoughts rather than 2016 politics. Don't forget anything can change.

In 1945 who would have thought that a continent that had seen 10s of millions kill each other in the largest human bloodbath in history would be united? So if history teaches us anything everything is possible as long as we have the determination and vision. Rest you need time.

As regards India I would like to just comment that we had united South Asia under the British. It was Jinnah and his cohorts who wrecked a ready made South Asian union. So it seems rather crazy now to want something that your forefathers wrecked in the first place or as they like saying "sacrificed" for.

And the world is moving into blocks. A few are so large that they are bigger than most blocks like China or India. However even powerful countries and economies like Germany or UK are part of larger blocks.

 

[Sabawoon_Noorzai]

I think Iraq is closer to Iran... some other errors on the map too. Indian influence is there in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh but those countries-both of them resent it deeply as does Nepal. If these were included in the Indian sphere of influence then Afghanistan should be included with Pakistan though Afghans have the same irate hatred of Pakistan the Sri Lankans or Nepalis have of India.

Can you please elaborate?

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Pakistan can NEVER EVER form a block with india. It would never ever be allowed by the main power brokers in both Pakistan and india. Asking Pakistan to form a block with india is like asking the Palestinians to form an alliance with the israelis. Impossible and extremely ridiculous to even suggest. Two nations always on the verge of war and nuking eachother and some here suggest an alliance???? It' the height of madness. Ideally and geographically speaking, Pakistan should form a regional block with the Central Asian/Islamic nations but the Khazakhstan/Uzbekistan rivalry will prevent this. The only realistic block Pakistan can form is with Iran/Turkey/ Middle East and China. The Arab countries and China have always helped us financially and in many other ways. The bond is very strong and Pakistan has always had natural leanings to these nations and these nations only.

I think you misconstrued my point i was building for a central Asia under Pakistani leadership. I know India is another civilization and will in time loose any semblance of affinity with Pakistan. Pakistan needs road and people to people connection with Afghanistan and CAR's.

 

[barbarosa]

First of all we definitely need to change our mentality here. Why should we join any regional block? Why not make it attractive for other countries to join a Pakistan-centric block?

Sir these blocks belong to trade not to war. the countries of the block related with each other in free trade free visa and perambulation such as EU.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Central Asian countries are Turkic in name sadly. These ex-soviet countries are heavily influenced and to some degree under the umbrella of Russia, still.
The only Turkic country that is truly close to Turkey is Azarbaijan, rest is out of our grib.

Some months ago i opened a thread suggesting alliance between the most reliable, developed and stable muslim countries - Turkey, Malaysia and Indonesia. These three muslim countries you want to look at, especially Turkey and Indonesia. If Turkey could free itself from NATO's grib in the near future, this alliance becomes highly feasible.

Shouldn't Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia and Malaysia form an alliance now? It'll help us in countering the enormous propaganda of West against Islam and Muslims. Let alone greatly benefiting each other from economy to defense. That alliance will be worth seeing. A block having some real punch and will also be useful in solving issues of Muslim world (Arab-Iran conflict particularly)

Alas!!! just if our leaders were far sighted

Muslims are bunch of idiots and deserve to be humiliated by others. We have become joke of the world.

 

[Ceri]

Shouldn't Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia and Malaysia form an alliance now? It'll help us in countering the enormous propaganda of West against Islam and Muslims. Let alone greatly benefiting each other from economy to defense. That alliance will be worth seeing. A block having some real punch and will also be useful in solving issues of Muslim world (Arab-Iran conflict particularly)

Alas!!! just if our leaders were far sighted

Muslims are bunch of idiots and deserve to be humiliated by others. We have become joke of the world.

If Pakistan can overcome it's economic hardships and infrastructural challenges in the near future i don't see any reason as to why Pakistan (a nuclear power) shouldn't join such an alliance. The reason i'm pointing these three countries is that all of them have impressing economic growth rates, high GDP/PPP per capita Turkey's is 20 thousand PPP etc., without any natural resources unlike Middle Eastern countries. Yet their economic performance far outweigh that of Middle Eastern oil rich countries. Futher, what binds these three countries together is pretty straightforward and simple, a version of Sunni islam that is not at odds with development and progress. On the quite contrary, in my view, their religious lifestyle boosts the economic performance. Not unlike Max Weber's thesis on the way in which protestantism in Europe gave way to economic success there:
"In the book, Weber wrote that capitalism in Northern Europe evolved when the Protestant (particularly Calvinist) ethic influenced large numbers of people to engage in work in the secular world, developing their own enterprises and engaging in trade and the accumulation of wealth for investment. In other words, the Protestant work ethic was an important force behind the unplanned and uncoordinated emergence[2] of modern capitalism. This idea is also known as the "Protestant Ethic thesis."
The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some years ago even NY times and BBC ran articles on this spirit in Turkey's Anatolia. Also known as the Anatolian Tigers. For the interested BBC NEWS | Business | Turkish toil brings new form of faith
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/11/business/worldbusiness/11iht-wbturkey.2450036.html?pagewanted=all

"Yet Kayseri and surrounding towns like Hacilar have produced so many successful Muslim entrepreneurs that the area has earned the title of "Anatolian tiger."
"The region's mix of Muslim values, hard work and raging capitalism has even prompted sociologists to coin a new term to describe the phenomenon: "Calvinist Islam."

 

[untitled]

Sir these blocks belong to trade not to war. the countries of the block related with each other in free trade free visa and perambulation such as EU.

That is exactly what I was referring too Sir

 

[Indus Pakistan]

If Pakistan can overcome it's economic hardships and infrastructural challenges in the near future i don't see any reason as to why Pakistan (a nuclear power) shouldn't join such an alliance. The reason i'm pointing these three countries is that all of them have impressing economic growth rates, high GDP/PPP per capita Turkey's is 20 thousand PPP etc., without any natural resources unlike Middle Eastern countries. Yet their economic performance far outweigh that of Middle Eastern oil rich countries. Futher, what binds these three countries together is pretty straightforward and simple, a version of Sunni islam that is not at odds with development and progress. On the quite contrary, in my view, their religious lifestyle boosts the economic performance. Not unlike Max Weber's thesis on the way in which protestantism in Europe gave way to economic success there:
"In the book, Weber wrote that capitalism in Northern Europe evolved when the Protestant (particularly Calvinist) ethic influenced large numbers of people to engage in work in the secular world, developing their own enterprises and engaging in trade and the accumulation of wealth for investment. In other words, the Protestant work ethic was an important force behind the unplanned and uncoordinated emergence[2] of modern capitalism. This idea is also known as the "Protestant Ethic thesis."
The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some years ago even NY times and BBC ran articles on this spirit in Turkey's Anatolia. Also known as the Anatolian Tigers. For the interested BBC NEWS | Business | Turkish toil brings new form of faith
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/11/business/worldbusiness/11iht-wbturkey.2450036.html?pagewanted=all

"Yet Kayseri and surrounding towns like Hacilar have produced so many successful Muslim entrepreneurs that the area has earned the title of "Anatolian tiger."
"The region's mix of Muslim values, hard work and raging capitalism has even prompted sociologists to coin a new term to describe the phenomenon: "Calvinist Islam."

You make great points however in Turkey your leadership has brewed a winning formula. Secularism has freed the human energy and zeal toward secular good. In Pakistan half that energy is wasted in fighting over religious minutiae with enormous energy wasted between sectarian groups and even killing. Pakistan is stuck in never ending theological debate that will go on forever. Mullah's in Pakistan can't even agree on definition of Muslim or common eid day.

Turkish nationalism as aggresively persued by Kemalists has built a strong united nation with deep and strong sense of self centred around "Turkishness". In Pakistan no two Pakistani's can even agree what extactly it is that "Pakistan" means. Some lie to themselves by rallying around "Pakistan reason is Islam" which is bare faced lie. Isreal's reason is Judaism. We know that because it will accept any Jew from any place on earth. Now why not see which Muslim's Pakistan will accept.

The other advantage Turkey has is your proximity to Europe. Being next to Europe is win win. As you have one of the largest and wealthiest market in the world. That provides enormous boot to your economy. Thus Turkey has got the right leadership, right vision and right location. Your going to go up, up and up, no doubt about it.

And as regards Europe your correct about the Protestant and their work ethic however never overlook the contribution of the Jews in creation of the western economic order. You scratch the surface and underneath you see Jewish capital that made and makes the wheels spin.

Muslims are bunch of idiots and deserve to be humiliated by others

Very succinctly said. Now may mention that in between Turkey and Indonesia we have Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, big huge gap with India, Bangladesh, big huge gap with Myanmarr, Thailand, Malaysia and then Indonesia.

Point being the "Muslims" are disunited and in state of conflict with each other. That is why "bunch of idiots" is very applicable. You know the "united we stand divided we fall"?

 

[Dukkar]

Future is extremely bright . The ONLY Islamic nuclear power ,whole muslim world looking at YOU ,nothing to worry ,the SUPER POWER of 2100