Pakistan tests Ghauri Missile

[Windjammer]

IF I remember correctly earlier Ghuri test were conducted for lesser range due to the Pakistan's geographical limitation but Ghauri range was 1300 form the beginning.

I think it all depends on payload. for the mission.

 

[HRK]

I think it all depends on payload. for the mission.

yap pay load is also one factor which effect range as Ghauri-1 with 700KG warhead have optimum range of 1500 KM
source: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

 

[LeGenD]

Yep. Cheaper missiles in greater numbers will always overwhelm any anti-aircraft weapon system. It doesn't matter how expensive and sophisticated the missile system is.

Those who are developing relevant defenses, understand the significance of making them robust, capable and difficult to defeat.

A defensive system might feature 6 - 8 TEL (24 - 140 interceptors) and an FTR which can track over 100 high-value targets, and develop a fire solution for like half of them (25 intercepts possible, assuming salvo engagement for each target). The FTR might also be much difficult to jam.

You would need to strike at the defensive system with a minimum of 30 cruise missiles, or ballistic missiles, or a mix of both. This much firepower to defeat a single high-value target - cost-prohibitive I would say.

While you are at it, there might be additional set of defenses in the vicinity which might also attempt to soften your strike package. Therefore, you might need to expend even more to defeat the same high-value target.

Pakistan is a cash-strapped country with low defense budget. There are no cheap solutions for defeating multi-layered defenses incorporating S-400 systems. There is also the probability of the enemy to not wait for Pakistan to strike at its defenses first.

Russia is not doing Pakistan favors by supplying India S-400 systems. Pakistan would need to go back to the drawing board in regards to what to do next. Either China give Pakistan everything it have (which I doubt) or we exit from the costly arms race with India and declare LOC the border. Alternative is to transform Pakistan into an economic and industrial powerhouse which is a daunting task as well.

I agree with the view of PTI-led government to establish good relations with all neighbors; choice between prosperity (or) bankruptcy.

I say we continue to strengthen our defenses to the best of our capacity, but we need to think long-term.

 

[Royal Blue007]

Pakistan would need to go back to the drawing board in regards to what to do next. Either China give Pakistan everything it have (which I doubt) or we exit from the costly arms race with India and declare LOC the border. Alternative is to transform Pakistan into an economic and industrial powerhouse which is a daunting task as well.

I agree with the view of PTI-led government to establish good relations with all neighbors; choice between prosperity (or) bankruptcy.
I say we continue to strengthen our defenses to the best of our capacity, but we need to think long-term.

my openion
Lets just maintain status quo for couple of decades or so. talks or whatever will come later.

 

[CriticalThought]

Those who are developing relevant defenses, understand the significance of making them robust, capable and difficult to defeat.

A defensive system might feature 6 - 8 TEL (24 - 140 interceptors) and an FTR which can track over 100 high-value targets, and develop a fire solution for like half of them (25 intercepts possible, assuming salvo engagement for each target). The FTR might also be much difficult to jam.

You would need to strike at the defensive system with a minimum of 30 cruise missiles, or ballistic missiles, or a mix of both. This much firepower to defeat a single high-value target - cost-prohibitive I would say.

While you are at it, there might be additional set of defenses in the vicinity which might also attempt to soften your strike package. Therefore, you might need to expend even more to defeat the same high-value target.


Pakistan is a cash-strapped country with low defense budget. There are no cheap solutions for defeating multi-layered defenses incorporating S-400 systems. There is also the probability of the enemy to not wait for Pakistan to strike at its defenses first.

Russia is not doing Pakistan favors by supplying India S-400 systems. Pakistan would need to go back to the drawing board in regards to what to do next. Either China give Pakistan everything it have (which I doubt) or we exit from the costly arms race with India and declare LOC the border. Alternative is to transform Pakistan into an economic and industrial powerhouse which is a daunting task as well.

I agree with the view of PTI-led government to establish good relations with all neighbors; choice between prosperity (or) bankruptcy.

I say we continue to strengthen our defenses to the best of our capacity, but we need to think long-term.

The calculus changes significantly with cheap drones and EW.

I always propose a defensive posture, but a defence that is impregnable. And I have no dreams of any kind of peace with India. They have a Hindu fundamentalist mindset, and they are looking for regional hegemony. The American agenda is to have India as the regional power with its powerbase ranging from Afghanistan to Vietnam. It sees Pakistan bending backwards to appease Indian whims. This is untenable for Pakistan, hence why we are labelled as revisionist. Our national interests DO NOT align with the World Order.

 

[LeGenD]

my openion
Lets just maintain status quo for couple of decades or so. talks or whatever will come later.

Friend,

We need to express our reservations to Russia regarding supply of S-400 systems to India.

China have imposed economic sanctions on South Korea for hosting a THAAD battery in its territory. China have conveyed its reservations to South Korea in a strong manner, and wants it removed from the region - no ifs and buts. Sooner or later, South Korea might give in.

US is not comfortable with sales of S-400 systems to any country. Pakistan should join US in this endeavor (India-focused intentions). Find common grounds with an ally, and capitalize on them.

At minimum, Russia would know that Pakistan have a say in the affairs of subcontinent.

 

[CriticalThought]

Friend,

We need to express our reservations to Russia regarding supply of S-400 systems to India.

China have imposed economic sanctions on South Korea for hosting a THAAD battery in its territory. China have conveyed its reservations to South Korea in a strong manner, and wants it removed from the region - no ifs and buts. Sooner or later, South Korea might give in.

US is actually opposing sales of S-400 systems to every country. Pakistan should join US in this endeavor. Find common grounds with an ally, and capitalize on them.

At minimum, Russia would know that Pakistan have a say in the affairs of subcontinent.

It is in American interest to have a non-NATO ally with S-400. They will use them for practice just like they used the Su-30 for practice. I expect major exercises with IAF in the future.

 

[SecularNationalist]

so no progress in missile range yet?Any news on ICBM?

 

[ashok mourya]

Yeah Ghouri koun hai?

 

[Royal Blue007]

Friend,

We need to express our reservations to Russia regarding supply of S-400 systems to India.

China have imposed economic sanctions on South Korea for hosting a THAAD battery in its territory. China have conveyed its reservations to South Korea in a strong manner, and wants it removed from the region - no ifs and buts. Sooner or later, South Korea might give in.

US is not comfortable with sales of S-400 systems to any country. Pakistan should join US in this endeavor (India-focused intentions). Find common grounds with an ally, and capitalize on them.

At minimum, Russia would know that Pakistan have a say in the affairs of subcontinent.

there is a lot of deficiencies in achieving what you are saying.
first thinfg first china is a giant (@wanglaokan you were right to say that) pakistan is not. China can enforce a lot of things due to its economic and military might, pakistan can not impos economic sanction on anyone barring maybe afghanistan.

IMO russia cares a dam about pakistan ,india or any one. the are businessmen, they need money in the age of CAATSa.

us and pak are going tangent at best case scnerio. india US relations are better than ever.


anyay you should do what you have to do

 

[Ultima Thule]

Yeah Ghouri koun hai?

A MUSLIM KING FROM AGHANISTAN WHO DEFEATS PRETHIVI RAJ CHOHAN @ashok mourya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_of_Ghor

 

[Royal Blue007]

Friend,

We need to express our reservations to Russia regarding supply of S-400 systems to India.

China have imposed economic sanctions on South Korea for hosting a THAAD battery in its territory. China have conveyed its reservations to South Korea in a strong manner, and wants it removed from the region - no ifs and buts. Sooner or later, South Korea might give in.

US is not comfortable with sales of S-400 systems to any country. Pakistan should join US in this endeavor (India-focused intentions). Find common grounds with an ally, and capitalize on them.

At minimum, Russia would know that Pakistan have a say in the affairs of subcontinent.

[Off-topic : I always enjoy reading your unbiased knowledgeable and cool-headed analysis on defense systems.Kudos]

 

[ashok mourya]

A MUSLIM KING FROM AGHANISTAN WHO DEFEATS PRETHIVI RAJ CHOHAN @ashok mourya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_of_Ghor

Oh a Afghani....I see, they are in Pakistani heart n mind since millennia...

 

[django]

Yeah Ghouri koun hai?

A chap who rubbed Prithvi Raj Choahans face into the mud!!!

 

[LeGenD]

The calculus changes significantly with cheap drones and EW.

I always propose a defensive posture, but a defence that is impregnable. And I have no dreams of any kind of peace with India. They have a Hindu fundamentalist mindset, and they are looking for regional hegemony. The American agenda is to have India as the regional power with its powerbase ranging from Afghanistan to Vietnam. It sees Pakistan bending backwards to appease Indian whims. This is untenable for Pakistan, hence why we are labelled as revisionist. Our national interests DO NOT align with the World Order.

Russian forces experienced this kind of attack in Syria in 2018: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/11/swa...s-attacks-russian-military-base-in-syria.html

As you can see, that attack flopped.

Again, we need to keep in mind that S-400 will not be operating in isolation. Expect additional set of defenses around it.

EW sounds good but S-400 is jamming resistant to large extent. According to Russian military professionals, only US have sufficient airborne EW capabilities to affect/disable S-400 and similar systems. Surface-based EW systems will not do.

PAF Blinders squadron strength: 3 x French Dassault Falcon 20F EW aircraft. Not sure if these are up to the task since S-400 is 21st century Russian product. India will induct 6 in total.

If India position S-400 systems near Pakistan, they would be able to track movement of various aircraft deep inside Pakistan, and keep IAF informed. Conversely, standard interceptor of S-400 (i.e. 48N6E2) can take out an aircraft from up to 200 KM away.

Indians might not operate S-400 FTR at full capacity on 24/7 basis (expensive). Maintenance breaks can also be expected. However, they will not be sleeping in times of escalation.

S-400 systems might change the calculus of engagement between India and Pakistan, depending upon how India deploy them and secure them. Situation will not be the same.