Pakistan Taliban (TTP) Regrouping Outside Waziristan

[BATMAN]

if the TTP is really regrouping in afganistan it is upto the pakistan rangers (i am not aware if there is some other para military force acting there, please enlighten me) to stop them from crossing. no matter how powerful US army is, it simply does not have enough boots on the ground to block the border.

If US does not have enough boots than why are the hell bent to start wars all over the world?
If TTP is regrouping inside Afghanistan, than we have right to hit their supply lines…….. or not?
I strongly believe Pakistan forces moving in to these mountains in such uncertain scenario where we have doubts that indian regulars are operating along side TTP and TTP operatives are equipped with very very high-tech US surveillance electronics, and they are highly motivated and increasing due to known high salaries and incentives, it is suicide to go after TTP in unknown and inhabited territories without proper equipment.

 

[Moorkh]

Now this is again your half knowledge Moorkh. Let me tell u straight TTP never crossed the Durand line to put US in trouble and also US never tried to stop them doing this as TTP till this date never fired a single bullet on US troops in Afghanistan.

Rest assure, Pakistan army is doing whatever possible to stop them but why not u please run an image search in google about FATA to get an idea about terrain.

my point was not that the TTP will cross the border to fight the US army.

i was replying to the assertion that the TTP was regrouping in afganistan after being routed in pakistan.

If US does not have enough boots than why are the hell bent to start wars all over the world?
If TTP is regrouping inside Afghanistan, than we have right to hit their supply lines…….. or not?
I strongly believe Pakistan forces moving in to these mountains in such uncertain scenario where we have doubts that indian regulars are operating along side TTP and TTP operatives are equipped with very very high-tech US surveillance electronics, and they are highly motivated and increasing due to known high salaries and incentives, it is suicide to go after TTP in unknown and inhabited territories without proper equipment.

TTP is not directly hurting US interests is it?
so US is in effect protecting its interests without "enough boots on the ground"
US had sent troops to protect its interests, its later that it found out that they were inadequate. now its planning to send more. but rest assured that even those extra troops will not protect ur interests by blocking the border unless they believe that the afgan taliban is regrouping in pakistan.

as to hitting the supply lines in afganistan. you will have to talk to the afgan govt and US.

 

[Moorkh]

Moorkh don't have any idea who was behind Afghan resistance (US+KSA+Pakistan). So, let me say he has zero knowledge let alone half one.

care to elaborate on KSA+US+pakistan being behind the afgan resistance.

i know that the people who fought the soviets were supported by the above mentioned .

how is it relevant to the TTP or the afgan taliban which is fighting now?

on a lighter note,
anyone who calls me foolish or without half my brain or dernaged or ill informed, etc etc, plz make an effort and pay attention to my name

 

[niaz]

There are clearly two parties involved in terrorism and suicide bombings.

Afghan Taliban claim that they are against any action against Pakistan and only trying to oust NATO forces from Afghanistan whom they consider as foreign occupiers.

TTP on the other hand want to take over Pakistan and convert it into a Sunni Wahabi State on the model of what was in Swat for a short period. To achieve this purpose TTP are willing to kill whosoever or do whatever it takes for them to achieve their goal.

The fact however remains that Mulla Omer’s regime provided sanctuary to all the sectarian killers and criminals who ran across the border after committing their heinous crimes inside Pakistan. Also TTP does and would always provide safe haven to the Afghan Taliban whenever the need arises.

What is there to be done? I have heard excerpts of the speech by Obama on this subject. Two points he makes are valid.

- One cannot separate TTP and Afghan Taliban. As long as either of the two organizations remains active the threat of terrorism remains.
- With the deep anti US feeling inside Pakistan (IMO quite justified) the possibility of nukes falling into the hands of TTP; even though remote; cannot be ruled out altogether.

However what he omitted to mention is the influence of the neighbors such as Iran and India. As long as these two countries continue to support Tajiks (Abdulla Abdulla) against the Pashtoons, many in Pakistan will continue to support Afghan Taliban considering them a bulwark against Indian influence on our northern border.

In my opinion, for the time being we should not differentiate between TTP and Afghan Taliban and continue the military operation until such time that GOP writ is established inside all of FATA. Once this is achieved, we need to rethink on our strategy and have a brain storming session as to how to eliminate Afghan Taliban without compromising Pashtoon interests. For this we may have to negotiate/mediate with followers of Mulla Omer or support an alternate to President Karzai who is not seen as US stooge but also acceptable to the US.

One thing is however certain; seeking outside help in eliminating TTP will backfire. We must on no account provide ammunition to bigoted media anchors such as Hamid Mir and naïve politicians such as Imran Khan or Syed Munawar Hassan (who have nothing to lose anyway) to enable them to claim that PA are fighting USA’s war.

Continued government by liberal parties such as PPP, ANP and MQM is of course essential. PML (N) is the party which opposed even minor modifications of the infamous Hudood Ordinance. Thus PML (N) must have many followers who are covert bigots, therefore this party cannot be trusted to effectively eliminate TTP.

 

[seekers]

There are clearly two parties involved in terrorism and suicide bombings.

Afghan Taliban claim that they are against any action against Pakistan and only trying to oust NATO forces from Afghanistan whom they consider as foreign occupiers.

TTP on the other hand want to take over Pakistan and convert it into a Sunni Wahabi State on the model of what was in Swat for a short period. To achieve this purpose TTP are willing to kill whosoever or do whatever it takes for them to achieve their goal.

The fact however remains that Mulla Omer’s regime provided sanctuary to all the sectarian killers and criminals who ran across the border after committing their heinous crimes inside Pakistan. Also TTP does and would always provide safe haven to the Afghan Taliban whenever the need arises.

What is there to be done? I have heard excerpts of the speech by Obama on this subject. Two points he makes are valid.

- One cannot separate TTP and Afghan Taliban. As long as either of the two organizations remains active the threat of terrorism remains.
- With the deep anti US feeling inside Pakistan (IMO quite justified) the possibility of nukes falling into the hands of TTP; even though remote; cannot be ruled out altogether.

However what he omitted to mention is the influence of the neighbors such as Iran and India. As long as these two countries continue to support Tajiks (Abdulla Abdulla) against the Pashtoons, many in Pakistan will continue to support Afghan Taliban considering them a bulwark against Indian influence on our northern border.

In my opinion, for the time being we should not differentiate between TTP and Afghan Taliban and continue the military operation until such time that GOP writ is established inside all of FATA. Once this is achieved, we need to rethink on our strategy and have a brain storming session as to how to eliminate Afghan Taliban without compromising Pashtoon interests. For this we may have to negotiate/mediate with followers of Mulla Omer or support an alternate to President Karzai who is not seen as US stooge but also acceptable to the US.

One thing is however certain; seeking outside help in eliminating TTP will backfire. We must on no account provide ammunition to bigoted media anchors such as Hamid Mir and naïve politicians such as Imran Khan or Syed Munawar Hassan (who have nothing to lose anyway) to enable them to claim that PA are fighting USA’s war.

Continued government by liberal parties such as PPP, ANP and MQM is of course essential. PML (N) is the party which opposed even minor modifications of the infamous Hudood Ordinance. Thus PML (N) must have many followers who are covert bigots, therefore this party cannot be trusted to effectively eliminate TTP.

Mr. Niaz! Most of your points are valid.But i don't understand logic behind negotiating with mullah omer even you don't find difference between Afghanistan taliban and TTP.
Didn't we learn the negotiating with TTP in swat???

 

[Windjammer]

yeha bro, that is indeed a fact and in fact it is PAF making all the difference between current and previous ops. against TTP be it in Swat or in FATA.

You can run but you can't hide.

 

[niaz]

Hon Seekers,

You will remember that initial fight with the Taliban in Afghanistan was carried out by the Northern Alliance forces with US help. Therefore in addition to ousting the foreign occupiers (US & NATO); some leaders fighting the NATO forces such as Hikmatyar are not really part of the Taliban but support them because Pashtoon belt wouldn’t accept Northern Alliance (Tajik & Uzbek) hegemony.

Naturally you can’t kill them all. Eventually there has to be a political settlement. I am not suggesting that we should negotiate with Mullah Omer; I said negotiate with the followers of Mullah Omer which are overwhelmingly Pashtoon.

 

[seekers]

Hon Seekers,

You will remember that initial fight with the Taliban in Afghanistan was carried out by the Northern Alliance forces with US help. Therefore in addition to ousting the foreign occupiers (US & NATO); some leaders fighting the NATO forces such as Hikmatyar are not really part of the Taliban but support them because Pashtoon belt wouldn’t accept Northern Alliance (Tajik & Uzbek) hegemony.

Naturally you can’t kill them all. Eventually there has to be a political settlement. I am not suggesting that we should negotiate with Mullah Omer; I said negotiate with the followers of Mullah Omer which are overwhelmingly Pashtoon.

I think you also remember that When Northern Alliance was on front in war with Taliban, taliban had withdraw kabul, Kandhar and big cities, but scenario had changed when US and Nato ground forces had took over the command .

Northern Alliance has not even share in Political govt. of Afghanistan, croupt karzai govt. is also responsible for failure of US.

Northren Alliance is only Force in Afghanistan which can fight and take over taliban in Afghanistan with support of Air strike of US Air force.

This is the same strategy that PA adopt in Swat and Wazaristan.

 

[PakShaheen79]

care to elaborate on KSA+US+pakistan being behind the afgan resistance.

i know that the people who fought the soviets were supported by the above mentioned .

how is it relevant to the TTP or the afgan taliban which is fighting now?

on a lighter note,
anyone who calls me foolish or without half my brain or dernaged or ill informed, etc etc, plz make an effort and pay attention to my name

Yes all three were behind that resistance... Pakistan providing man power, KSA pumping in money whereas US came up with weapons.

TTP and Afghan Taliban don't enjoy any of these... atleast not from these sources. TTP is indeed getting its supply from Afghanistan. Multiple actors are involved off course including India.

I am not trying to imply that Afghan resistance was or is relevant ... but that was a reply to one of your post where u suggested that Pakistan army must learn from Russian mistake.

 

[Moorkh]

Yes all three were behind that resistance... Pakistan providing man power, KSA pumping in money whereas US came up with weapons.

TTP and Afghan Taliban don't enjoy any of these... atleast not from these sources. TTP is indeed getting its supply from Afghanistan. Multiple actors are involved off course including India.

I am not trying to imply that Afghan resistance was or is relevant ... but that was a reply to one of your post where u suggested that Pakistan army must learn from Russian mistake.

my assertion about learning from the soviet experience was more about tactical lessons.

i was not talking about the source of support at all. i was talking about the guirella tactics being used against the soviets and which might be used against the PA now. the afgan resistance during the soviet occupation never gave a direct battle, just as the TTP is not giving a direct battle. since the soviet troops could not be in large enough number everywhere, the resistance simply avoided them and stayed where the soviets were not present.
similarly the TTP is avoiding fighting the PA and simply relocating to places where the PA is not present. they are waiting for the PA to leave.

hopefully by the time the PA leaves those areas, they will have state institutions strong enough to ensure that the life of the TTP is very very difficult and short.

 

[Moorkh]

Afghan Taliban claim that they are against any action against Pakistan and only trying to oust NATO forces from Afghanistan whom they consider as foreign occupiers.

TTP on the other hand want to take over Pakistan and convert it into a Sunni Wahabi State on the model of what was in Swat for a short period. To achieve this purpose TTP are willing to kill whosoever or do whatever it takes for them to achieve their goal.

i have to disagree about this point. the AT had enforced the sharia in afganistan when they ruled. the US invasion might have allowed them a second reason to rally support but it still is hard to believe that they will not go back to imposing the kind of laws they had earlier.

surely their aims are not limited to only ousting the US. they have to have a slightly longer term plan. the AT will not disband when the US leaves. they will go back to being the ways they were before the US came along. that i believe was the wahabi state you mentioned.

this wahabi system was not very different from the one the TTP want to enforce in pakistan.

so in essence the TTP and AT are ideological brothers. they both want to enforce the same thing. the ends for both are the same.

the difference in means are not great either. both attack security personnel, engage in guirella tactics and terrorism.

so the assertion that the TTP and AT are different because the TTP wants to enforce their system of sharia in pakistan and the AT do not want to enforce sharia in afganistan is not well founded.

However what he omitted to mention is the influence of the neighbors such as Iran and India. As long as these two countries continue to support Tajiks (Abdulla Abdulla) against the Pashtoons, many in Pakistan will continue to support Afghan Taliban considering them a bulwark against Indian influence on our northern border.

In my opinion, for the time being we should not differentiate between TTP and Afghan Taliban and continue the military operation until such time that GOP writ is established inside all of FATA. Once this is achieved, we need to rethink on our strategy and have a brain storming session as to how to eliminate Afghan Taliban without compromising Pashtoon interests. For this we may have to negotiate/mediate with followers of Mulla Omer or support an alternate to President Karzai who is not seen as US stooge but also acceptable to the US.

One thing is however certain; seeking outside help in eliminating TTP will backfire. We must on no account provide ammunition to bigoted media anchors such as Hamid Mir and naïve politicians such as Imran Khan or Syed Munawar Hassan (who have nothing to lose anyway) to enable them to claim that PA are fighting USA’s war.

i support all of the points mentioned here with slight alterations and additions. atleast these will be the best options for pakistan.

i just want to add that there is a need for economic and propaganda elements in addition to the military element to ensure that the TTP loses whatever little support it enjoys in pakistan. hopefully that propaganda wont be anti-india

also i would like to say that much of the concern in pakistani minds is less out of concern for the pashtoons but out of a concern that the government in afganistan is pro india creating the fears of pakistan getting surrounded by enemies. even a pathan(i think they r the same people as pushtoons. please let me know if i m wrong there) if supported by india will create the same anxieties as a person belonging to the minority groups.

as for the last part i cant say anything as i am not well versed with pakistani politics.