Pakistan striving for glorification of Islam

[zraver]

Can you back up your claim that Hinduism is the only true religion?

No more than anyone can. Religion cannot be proven to the person who does not want to believe and it cannot be disproven to the beleiver.

 

[MirBadshah]

In America where the seperation is iron clad islamis growing by somethign other thsan imigration or birth but by recruitment. other religions here enjoy the same type of growth beucase they are free to concentrate on God's will not political power games.

Well if Islam is growing by recruitment then there are certain relagions which are declining by such recruitment, it is very natural. Same can be case with Hinduism if Islam grows it will decline as a result, but what I have seen the conversion form Hinduism (which to Bull is only true religion) is not only directed towards Islam but Christianity and Budhism are also benifiting for the process.

That means the process of delcine of Hinduism is faster then anyother religion as there are three main religions attracting its followers. Just recently I have seen 50,000 Hindu's conversion as a group to Budhism, it was on world media.

May be you say that it was a recruitment as well, but to me the religion will only attract the followers of other religion if they are convinced by the teachings, can you further explain why conversion to Hinduism from other religions is almost equal to none?

 

[1pakistan]

I think speration of church and state is a good thing, mixing religious and politcal power results in tyranny. Not jsut in the west but in caliphate after caliphate as well. Men have a hard enough time when in power, giving them divine right only makes it worse. This also backe dup by the fact that not one theocraic society is among the top nations on earth when comparing standards of living. When a goverment is concerned about the people not God, the people benifit. Leave religion for the clerics and politics for the politicians and hopefully the two shall never meet. Even Jesus who you respect as a phrophet said this- Render unto ceaser what is ceasers, and rende runto God what is Gods. A very clear disticntion between temporal and secular authority.

A fact borne out in Islam'sown history- Muhammed ruled a small following as the caliphates grew in power they lost track of God except to manipulate the masses with calls for jihad that were really wars of conquest for thier own ambition. It was this type of greed that got the last true caliph trampled by mongol ponies.

In America where the seperation is iron clad islamis growing by somethign other thsan imigration or birth but by recruitment. other religions here enjoy the same type of growth beucase they are free to concentrate on God's will not political power games.

First and Foremost it is really not good comparing the Christianity and Islam in regards to governce of nations. Jesus (peace be upon him) him stated that he has brough no new laws he is only here to call people back to the path of God (ALLAH). The people for whom Jesus (PBUH) was sent were the JEWS. However Islam and Prophet Mohammad came for whole manking and not arabia or the pagans of qurash. Beside Islam is not a religion but a deen, a way for life. It has laws for indivduals to follow at individual level as well as laws for running a government.

So to say keep religion separate from Politics might be true as there were no particular laws introduced by Jesus(PBUH) so governece of Churchs become dodgy due to the factor mentioned b4. But Islam as deen has every relevance in running the goverment. Islam has all jursidiction from criminal to civil and business. Hell it goes to the extent of governing the fact that an individual cant give false testmony which than would be a matter at personal level as well as Islamic state being able to legislate that area. So its not easy to swallow this.

As for caliphates, its interesting but u are once again trying to distort the facts. Prophet Mohammad(SAW) passed away and at that time the islamic state was very small as u mentioned. But What happend after that is undenable fact that as Islam spread as religion so did the government arm of it to whole islamic empire. Now i think u should study what these empires achieved... I cant be bothered giving u all the stuff. But just have a look how they have changed our world of today....

So i dont believe Islam should be separate from state. But u need to have strong institution to breed ppl who can manage the state.

 

[zraver]

So i dont believe Islam should be separate from state. But u need to have strong institution to breed ppl who can manage the state.

The divine right of kings eh? The biggest empires on earth were not Caliphate based, but a Christian Woman, a Pagan Italian, and and a Pagan steppe warrior. I think Islam would be beter served as areligion than as a goverment. But this is true of all religions.

 

[1pakistan]

The divine right of kings eh? The biggest empires on earth were not Caliphate based, but a Christian Woman, a Pagan Italian, and and a Pagan steppe warrior. I think Islam would be beter served as areligion than as a goverment. But this is true of all religions.

Research does as help. Now i only find these comments funny becoz there is no legs for such comments to stand on. Now its ur job to teach ur self abt what ive said and not my.

 

[Samudra]

So can u please EXPLAIN TO ME THESE PART OF HINDUISM

If I were a Hindu believing in God I'd tell you this :

The relationship between God and all that she has created is like that of the relationship between dance and the dancer.

To us, there is divinity manifest in everything and there are no limits on how we want to worship them. We will worship in manners we see fit. Everything is true, everything is divine, everything leads to divinity.

Heck, the most religious on earth have these inherent hate for prostitutes. I, on the other hand, see divinity manifest in them as much as it is manifest in a temple. The truly spiritual people of India have never hesitated to prostrate at the feet of a sex worker.

If somebody wants to worship penis - why not ? Divinity is manifest in its entirety in everything.

A girl can think of the divine as her lover and yearn for 'him'. She will in the end attain what she sought. Vice versa.

If somebody wants to attain and perceive the divinity better with sex - they're free to do so and heck, they will perceive divinity in sex as much as any man who hugs his books and lives a very clean life.

These are hard to understand for the extremely religious people of Abrahamic faith. IMO, they will never be able to understand the beauty and honesty of Eastern philosophies until they realise that things in the books can always be wrong and spectacularly wrong at that!

They always look at other religious and people within the context of their religion and immediately start looking for a book or a set of rules when trying to understand other faiths.Such is the indoctrination they have undergone(suffered, if you ask me)

Honestly, I'm sure you wont understand any of this now and this post is actually invain. Get rid of your attitudes on religion - wipe the slate clean and THEN try to understand.

PS : I was at some of the happening places in London today. I saw a lot of people smooching and kissing and making out. I see love and divinity there. Can you?

 

[zraver]

Research does as help. Now i only find these comments funny becoz there is no legs for such comments to stand on. Now its ur job to teach ur self abt what ive said and not my.

Which would say has more true followers as a percentage of everyone claiming the religion. Suadi Arabia where everyon ehas to be Moslem wether or not they actually beleive. Or England where ypou are only Moslem if you want to be beucase the faith actually fullfills somethign in your life.

 

[Neo]

June 03, 2007

Mosques shouldn’t become centre of mischief: Imam: Sharia enforcement by individuals rejected

ISLAMABAD, June 2: Imam of Kaaba Sheikh Abdul Rehman Al-Sudais has observed that mosques should not become a centre of mischief, violence and conflict, adding that the holy places should not be used for demonstrating power.

He said he was surprised and shocked to hear about the Lal Masjid episode and hoped that its effects would not spill over to other parts of the country.

Talking to newsmen at the Punjab House on Saturday, he said individuals had no right to enforce Sharia in any country, adding that an Islamic state had its own institutions and systems and nobody else had the right to do this.

Saudi Ambassador to Pakistan Ali Awadh Al-Asseri and senior diplomats from the Saudi embassy, were present on the occasion.

The Imam of Kaaba called for resolution of the issue through dialogue between ulema and political leadership without involving women and students.

He urged the Lal Masjid administration and the government to ensure peace in Pakistan, warning that only enemies of Islam and Pakistan would benefit from their confrontation.

He noted that a large number of people in Pakistan understood the true spirit of religion and the wrong attitude of some people would not make a big difference. He said all problems should be resolved in line with broad objectives and principles of Islam.

“The sublime rule of Islam teaches us that it is a religion of moderation and accommodation which is opposed to compulsion and oppression,” the Imam said.

The Saudi dignitary said that Muslims should accrue benefits of Sharia and curb all mischief. He said Sharia did not allow such steps which caused chaos and anarchy in society, adding that it opposed all divisions that led to confrontations.

In reply to a question about inter-faith dialogue, he said Islam is a comprehensive and all inclusive religion which lays emphasis on the welfare of humanity.

He said all prophets spread the message of Allah through preaching and never imposed religion by force.

“Islam never failed in winning hearts and minds of the people through dialogue,” he observed.

He underlined the need for presenting the true face of Islam to the world, saying that unfortunately it was the most misunderstood religion in the world.

He said Islam is not merely a religion of rituals, but a complete code of life providing guidelines in diverse fields, including politics and economics.

He said there were many misconceptions about jihad. He said there were various ethics and conditions essential before giving a call for jihad, adding that it was not the duty of any individual to give a call for jihad.

He said the call for jihad must be preceded by formation of decisive opinion by the people enjoying the trust of the Ummah.

He said a state of preparedness was a prerequisite for it. He pointed out that holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had a different strategy in Makkah when Muslims had no capacity to go to war, but the strategy changed in Madina when Muslims had strength and capability.

“There are clear ethics for launching and continuing a war in Islam, which prohibit killing of women, children, elderly persons and those worshipping,” the Imam declared.

Responding to a question about sectarian disharmony, he said there was no room for sectarian strife and violence in Islam. He said it was the lack of knowledge about Islam which had led some people to get involved in sectarian violence.

http://www.dawn.com/2007/06/03/top9.htm

 

[1pakistan]

Which would say has more true followers as a percentage of everyone claiming the religion. Suadi Arabia where everyon ehas to be Moslem wether or not they actually beleive. Or England where ypou are only Moslem if you want to be beucase the faith actually fullfills somethign in your life.

well y not bak ur claims up by evidence that religion is being forced upon PPl in KSA. To have better discussion u need to have somthing to bak ur claim up and make sure that evidence u have is from repected place. Well ur from America u better know how to make false evidence and use that false evidence to bak up ur claims...

Well b4 we leave u havnt yet proved to me that Islamic empire under sharia law did no good. now uve just decided to change the direction of discussion. So lets go slow so we can have good and easy discussion.

 

[1pakistan]

If I were a Hindu believing in God I'd tell you this :
PS : I was at some of the happening places in London today. I saw a lot of people smooching and kissing and making out. I see love and divinity there. Can you?

Well that little emotion suites u alot better. Now what happens in london has nothing to do with divinity they dont claim it to be part of the religion. Beside i wasnt looking for these poetic reponse but rahter what is the basis for such in a religion.

On contrary my question was to bull, like always he cant bak up his statements.. He claimed HINDUISM to be true religion.. Now first what i posted is not HINDUISM, infact there was no religion called HINDUISM.... Hope u can research on these points and there is awful alot of conflict between hinduism as practice and what is writen in books.

DAMN i shouldnt be using word HINDUISM as it has no relvance because bunch of ppl who were lost for name took shelter under this name, not knowning what it really means...(no offence) im pretty sure u now what HINDU means and word HINDUISM seem quite odd to me.

 

[zraver]

well y not bak ur claims up by evidence that religion is being forced upon PPl in KSA. To have better discussion u need to have somthing to bak ur claim up and make sure that evidence u have is from repected place. Well ur from America u better know how to make false evidence and use that false evidence to bak up ur claims...

Well b4 we leave u havnt yet proved to me that Islamic empire under sharia law did no good. now uve just decided to change the direction of discussion. So lets go slow so we can have good and easy discussion.

I never said an Islamic empire did no good, but I did say it was not all good. Ther eis a world of differance there, EVERY religion when coupled with politcal power has used its posistion to persecute, expel, and kill others who did not beleive as they did, and used its power to enforce conformity with its politcal power over it's religious duties and doctrines. Now that is an easy enough claim to prove or disprove, all you have to do is find one guilt free example among any religous theocracy anywhre on Earth at any time. But it can't be done beucase the fac tis when religion and politics meet people die.

http://www.wes.org/ewenr/01nov/practical.htm description of the education system in KSA shows the level of indocrination form the very earliest levels.

Testifying before the Congressional Human Rights Caucus, Ali Al-Ahmed, Director of the Saudi Institute, stated:

Saudi Arabia is a glaring example of religious apartheid. The religious institutions from government clerics to judges, to religious curricula, and all religious instructions in media are restricted to the Wahhabi understanding of Islam, adhered to by less than 40% of the population. The Saudi government communized Islam, through its monopoly of both religious thoughts and practice. Wahhabi Islam is imposed and enforced on all Saudis regardless of their religious orientations. The Wahhabi sect does not tolerate other religious or ideological beliefs, Muslim or not. Religious symbols by Muslims, Christians, Jewish and other believers are all banned. The Saudi embassy in Washington is a living example of religious apartheid. In its 50 years, there has not been a single non-Sunni Muslim diplomat in the embassy. The branch of Imam Mohamed Bin Saud University in Fairfax, Virginia instructs its students that Shia Islam is a Jewish conspiracy. [9]

According to Alan Dershowitz, "in Saudi Arabia apartheid is practiced against non-Muslims, with signs indicating that Muslims must go to certain areas and non-Muslims to others." [12] On December 14, 2005, Republican Representative Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and Democrat Representative Shelley Berkley introduced a bill in Congress urging American divestiture from Saudi Arabia, and giving as its rationale (among other things) "Saudi Arabia is a country that practices religious apartheid and continuously subjugates its citizenry, both Muslim and non-Muslim, to a specific interpretation of Islam." [13] Freedom House shows, as an example of "religious apartheid in Saudi Arabia", a picture of a sign showing Muslim-only and non-Muslim roads.[14] Until March 1, 2004, the official government website stated that Jews were forbidden from entering the country.[15]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_Saudi_Arabian_apartheid

Thats the type of stuff you get when religious and political power are mixed.

 

[Samudra]

there is awful alot of conflict between hinduism as practice and what is writen in books.

You just vindicated my post.

Here is what I said :

"They always look at other religious and people within the context of their religion and immediately start looking for a book or a set of rules when trying to understand other faiths"

 

[ali786]

How about striving to make Pakistan a fully developed country with a modern outlook before we start to think about glorifying what is believed to the religion handed down by God himself ? Isnt it glorified enough already ?

God, if that thing, exists, will take care of his/her/its religion.

Man should take care of mankind first.

i disagree with you totaly

I dont know if I believe in God or not. I dont know if it exists or not. Neither do I buy any of the "my religion is this and that" sermons offered. I'm convinced I know a little more than that. Arrogance? Yes.

You should take a look into islam, its not how the media portray it; lifes too short dont waste it by "enjoying life to the full" as Atheists say. find the truth, its out their, in islam. i know your goning to say "of cource you will say that your a muslim" but think about it will it really hurt if you went and talked about islam to an imam.

This is what Islam is? But sadly thats not the way it is known around the world.

Only the dumbest can say 'Islam has to be glorified'....all relegions are glorified as they all were 'ways of life' preached by different preachers who blessed our world at different times.

islam is already glorified you just have to dig a little deeper past the media representation of islam to find islams true meaning, it is stupid to take the medias biased portrayal of islam to heart

 

[Samudra]

find the truth

Noticed that I said 'Neither do I buy any of the "my religion is this and that" sermons offered.' ? You dont read what I have written before penning a reply. Please ty to do that next time.

I can preach Islam better than an Imam without believing a single word of the Quran. Making people who want to believe believe is so easy. Goddamn Hitler showed it is possible to make a fool out of millions of people. You only need to know to speak and communicate.

Whats the big deal?
Any trained man can brainwash gullible people.

 

[zraver]

You should take a look into islam, its not how the media portray it; lifes too short dont waste it by "enjoying life to the full" as Atheists say. find the truth, its out their, in islam.

Prove it? Ali it might be truth for you, but is it the only truth? It is not tru for me, and I think you would reject my truth just as readily. Now doe sthat mean niethe rone of us truly loves God beucase we don't accept the others truth? Of course not, if we really sought after God then the truth we found os the truth he revealed.