'Pakistan still considers India as its principal enemy'

[kidwaibhai]

Why should Pakistan reoreint itself. and what right does the US have to ask us to do that.
Pakistan should do what ever is in the interest of pakistan. it is in our interest that their is a freindly government in Afghanistan.
The US has allowed all out genocide in latin america to have a friendly regimes there.

 

[omerhhh]

What a joke of a thread.
Face a bit of reality.

India is Pakistan’s #1 enemy and Pakistan is India’s #1 enemy. Why, because you have not really grown up.

RAW is playing with terror groups to stuff up Pakistan
ISI are playing with a different set of terrorists to stuff up India.

Both countries are playing with fire that in the end will burn both and at present both nations are starting to get their fingers burnt.

India and Pakistan have a BIG #1 enemy and that is TERRORISTS.

BUT both nations are so blind that neither can see this.

YOU, the people here on this board, are the new generation, one day part of the main stream of thought in your nations and yet you proliferate this constant Anti India/ Anti Pakistan mentality as if it is going out of stock.

You are the generation who should be telling your governments enough is enough and sort out the stupidity.
BUT no you just add fuel to the smouldering fire.

You do not help regional stability you help instability.

Thank you!!!!!!!!
finally someone who actually understands the problem fine india and pak have had alot of wars in the past but now they have a new enemy the terrorists and they should work together to eliminate this threat but the pakistan and india can never work together and they can never be friends until they stop playing flamethrowers that they point at each other and burn themselves in the process thank you sir for a very useful post.

 

[Screaming Skull]

I beg to defer, specially since India's foreign and regional policies are designed to isolate Pakistan and she's always been very vocal about any military sales to her smaller neighbor.
One wonders why she's never tried to block Russian military sales to China, eventhough she considers Beijing to be the prime enemy.

India always tries its best to pressure Russia from selling cutting edge technologies to China. But they are not very vocal about it as the relationship between India and China are not as bad as those with Pakistan. Moreover India knows that Pakistan is far more dependent on military imports than China and any kind of blockage can critically impair the Pakistani armed forces. Also traditionally Russia-China military relationship too has been better than that of Russia-Pakistan. Considering these dynamics it is not in India's interest to piss off China.

However India always ensures that we end up with better technologies from Russia. Akula, Gorky, Brahmos, MKI.....etc. are good examples. Also the primary reason why India dropped the idea of joint development of PAK-FA is because we wanted firm commitment from Russia that she won't supply tech to China, which Russia refused.

 

[Neo]

I am afraid many are not getting the point here. All that the author implies is that when confronted with multiple problems you have to prioritize your response based on which problem is causing more trouble. It is not about 'who is who's enemy number one'. It is about accepting that you have an equally bigger enemy in terrorism and your response should be as effective as it would be to India. Ignoring one at the expense of the other may be a big blunder.

We all accept that Pakistan is mighty effective in conventional war capabilities against any other military in the world. But, unfortunately the terrorists have a different approach than conventional militaries and it requires unconventional counter terrorism warfare techniques to eliminate the problem.

This is possible only when Pakistan acknowledges that the problem of terrorism is also huge if not as big as the Indian threat. So many terror attacks on both Pakistani and Indian soil could have been avoided if only we gave equal respect to our adversary that is terrorism.

Will Pakistan tolerate if India bombed any target within Pakistan? What would Pakistan's response be? Won't Pakistan do all that is there in its capacity to prevent a strike from India? Wont you strike back in such a scenario?

Why not the same response to the terrorists?

Terrorism is a comon enemy, both Indian and Pakistan are paying huge toll for the neglegence which allowed the terrorist to grow stronger. Whereas Pakistan took a clear stance that terrorist activities in Kashmir are part of indigenous strugle to combat Indian Occupation and Suppression of muslims, but failed to controll and prevent LeT and and other organisation to set foot on Indian ground and get support of homegrown cells. India is doing the same in Balochistan and using Afghanistan to further destabalise her arch rival and the sole country that denies her supremacy in regional affairs.

As long as both countries are engaged in same rhetorical approach and continue to play blame game the only party to gain power will be the terrorists.

We've done more than enough to show our good will, Musharraf practicaly ended the insurgency in Kashmir. Its time for India to endorse the courtesy.

 

[wtf]

Massive deployment by India (700.000-1.000.000 forces at peak) only reflects the weight she puts in it.

You talk about "minor infections" Well what country would deploy 80% of her forces against an a much smaller adversary and still deny that she's regarded a prime enemy?

The million number came from Kargil/Parliament time numbers. That is pretty much war time deployment and indicates how close the countries were to war. The question in Mullen's article is whether that is still justified.

 

[Neo]

India always tries its best to pressure Russia from selling cutting edge technologies to China. But they are not very vocal about it as the relationship between India and China are not as bad as those with Pakistan. Moreover India knows that Pakistan is far more dependent on military imports than China and any kind of blockage can critically impair the Pakistani armed forces. Also traditionally Russia-China military relationship too has been better than that of Russia-Pakistan. Considering these dynamics it is not in India's interest to piss off China.

However India always ensures that we end up with better technologies from Russia. Akula, Gorky, Brahmos, MKI.....etc. are good examples. Also the primary reason why India dropped the idea of joint development of PAK-FA is because we wanted firm commitment from Russia that she won't supply tech to China, which Russia refused.

So in other words, China poses no threat and doesn't qualify as India's prime enemy which leaves Pakistan at the top spot.

 

[Screaming Skull]

Terrorism is a comon enemy, both Indian and Pakistan are paying huge toll for the neglegence which allowed the terrorist to grow stronger. Whereas Pakistan took a clear stance that terrorist activities in Kashmir are part of indigenous strugle to combat Indian Occupation and Suppression of muslims, but failed to controll and prevent LeT and and other organisation to set foot on Indian ground and get support of homegrown cells. India is doing the same in Balochistan and using Afghanistan to further destabalise her arch rival and the sole country that denies her supremacy in regional affairs.

As long as both countries are engaged in same rhetorical approach and continue to play blame game the only party to gain power will be the terrorists.

We've done more than enough to show our good will, Musharraf practicaly ended the insurgency in Kashmir. Its time for India to endorse the courtesy.

So you accept that LeT was Pakistan's creation in the first place?

Coming back to the point, all I am saying is that terrorism is a well tested formula and to be very frank the formula has failed miserably. Kashmir is still where it was in 1948. So if Kashmir was the premise on which LeT etc. were created then I think they need a serious rethinking of strategy. Nothing has changed expect for a few wars fought and both parties badly bruised in the process.

I agree with you that good progress was made during the later half of Musharraf's rule. That was because both parties were willing to talk. It was possible because both parties agreed to bury the ghosts of the past and move on until Mumbai happened. I agree that the attitude of the Indian leaders, public and media were extremely hostile towards Pakistan. But when eventually the involvement of LeT was proved, Pakistan simply refused to take action.

Now you tell me when such is the case then how can one trust ur leaders? Believe me this is not hurting India at all. Instead India has used this to her advantage to malign Pakistan at the world stage (not that I approve of it).

 

[wtf]

So in other words, China poses no threat and doesn't qualify as India's prime enemy which leaves Pakistan at the top spot.

A man's worth is not in how many enemies he has, but how many friends he has. Surprised to see the smiley at the end!

 

[Screaming Skull]

So in other words, China poses no threat and doesn't qualify as India's prime enemy which leaves Pakistan at the top spot.

Yes I will not deny that. India considers China as a potential threat and Pakistan as an eternal enemy (this perception could and should change). There is a lot of difference between the two perceptions.

The size, economy, and military might of China makes India nervous and thus India always prepares for the worst scenario.

I guess you will agree that China can do more harm to India than Pakistan and thus it is absolutely important to at least match China militarily.

China is India's threat number one because we feel that out of all our neighbors China is the only power that has the capability to carry out an offensive attack (least likely from Pakistan) and win!

 

[KnightRyder]

The fact is that both countries are at war with each other. Both have hundreds of thousands soldiers stationed at their borders. Both share a disputed border and claim ownership of Kashmir. Both support militant groups to launch attacks against each other. Both are engaged in covert wars in effect. And this does not end here, in fact both are engaged in a media as well as intellectual propaganda warfare against each other.

Do these signs denote "friendship" amongst countries? Hell no...

Therefore anyone that pretends India to be Pakistan's friend is an idiot and away from ground realities.

 

[ajpirzada]

I think his point is that Pak, US and Indian interests in this case are exactly aligned - Fight terror wherever it is.

I saw that as the general point of the article. We don't need to waste time ranking enemies while we all have urgent and dangerous threat facing us. All the three countries together have surrounded the terrorists, but since we are in a circle around them, each of us sees the other as "behind" the terrorists.
US can't move into Pakistan, Pakistan can't attack camps in Afghanistan and India can't attack camps in Pak-border (and Pakistan won't be happy with Indian troops in Afghanistan). 3 way stalemate. Meanwhile Afghans and Pakistani people continue to lose life to terror attacks. (And to some extent India and US).

i agree with u that terrorism is threat to all of us.
however wat we need to understand is that there are various groups out there with different objectives though the end product of their activity might be terrorism. now the thing is that each country has their own top priority which is to fight the group threatnin her. none of the countries have got the capability to fight all the groups at same time. also each country has their own way of fightin this war.
we think that the way US is tryin to fight this war is not worth tryin coz it has not produced any results over last 7yrs. wat frustrates us is when US tells us to fight this war how they want us to fight and with whom they want us to fight. when we dont do that, US in return obviously gets frustrated and start blamin us for their failure.
hope u get wat im tryiin to say

 

[third eye]

If immidiate threats are not countered properly the lessor would cease to exist. Therefor its in the interest of the lessor to keep the status quo as it is and not feel intimated, keep the defence programme up and running and move along. Thats exactly what Pakistan did after the Delhi Parliament attack and what she's doing now. Despite having a front open at the western boundries, we still have plenty to send to the eastern borders to keep the enemy behind the lines.
Massive deployment by India (700.000-1.000.000 forces at peak) only reflects the weight she puts in it.

You talk about "minor infections" Well what country would deploy 80% of her forces against an a much smaller adversary and still deny that she's regarded a prime enemy?

A principal enemy would be one who has the ability to stretch you & your resources to / beyond limits should the need arise to counter.... & put a spanner in the works of a nations national ambitions both in the near & far term. Pak does not qualify here.

Countering an enemy is done in more ways than one. Exercising the military arm is only one of the options. Needless to say that it also should be the last.

Also, just as all infections are not treated by the same medicine or drug, all enemies and potential enemies require attention ( including contingency planning) but not the same method of engagement.

The ' cure' varies based on a No of inputs. Surgery like war is among the last options. Till then ' non invasive' options are exercised both to wage war & to treat infections.

 

[Tombstone]

Why shouldn't we consider India as principal enemy? We fought many wars, you try to weaken Pakistan thorugh Afghanistan and Balochistan, you whine whenever a deal goes through for Pakistan, Mumbai Attacks showed your character, so why shouldn't we consider India as enemy No.1?

Exactly my friend. You couldn't be more right. Reality is that we are arch enemies and rivals. And no matter how much peace process keeps going on, we'll never consider ourselves friends. I think peace would be good in south asia but India, being a developing country and of course a power in the region should act more mature towards its neighbours first. Delusional peace could only be made into a reality if India first accepts Pakistan's sovereignty and it's right to deal with it's internal problem itself.