Pakistan should persuade world to sign nuclear deals

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

exactly you are correct "just around the time" but the contract was signed earlier. I that contract contains more number of reactors can be built then no problem. signing new contract will be a problem.

I am not sure if the Chasma 1 contract had options for Chasma 2 built in - the contract for Chasma 2 was signed a month before China joined the NSG.

Thats close enough for the West to have raised issues, so we shall have to wait and see what happens with future discussions. I do agree that nothing earth shattering is goign to happen soon in terms of contracts being signed with China, but nonetheless, it is important that Pakistan continues to campaign for more NPP's, and its own domestic program.

 

[Always Neutral]

You are reading my post out of context - it was largely a response to ZK's argument that campaigning for a nuclear deal would pose a risk to Pakistan's nuclear program, when it would in fact solidify Pakistan's status.

Who said anything about the US helping Pakistan?

Chasma-2 was signed and implemented long after the US knew of AQ and his activities.

AM,

I assure you I am not reading your post out of context. My personal views on the deal is that its good for India but bad for the world at large unless u work or own shares in the nuclear field.

I am sure down the line even Pakistan should get a similiar deal but there is no way the world will not use the AQ episode to bargain with the deal given to you. Also there is a great difference in USA holding your hands in the NSG and China holding your hand.

Not to mention Russia remaining neutral.

Regards

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I have no doubt that china will give you a deal but nothing which will be as clean as the NSG waiver can do. Please see in addition to the uranium and refinement tech what else Indians can get from the NSG. For eg now India can pursue cold fusion (research) and thorium reactors (trial reactor) in their own country as they can get the equipment from Swiss and the Canadians on a platter instead of going overseas.

Regards

But then I wasn't suggesting that we would get anything 'as clean as teh NSG waiver'. You are for whatever reason assuming that I am demanding parity with India in this context, when the primary concern for Pakistan that I see is more NPP"s for addressing its power shortage and reliance on fossil fuels for power gen.

Research into the next gen. nuclear tech. is still decades away from offering practical solutions - provided Pakistan remains a democracy, continues to build up its non-proliferation record, and expands its civilian nuclear program, the time for a deal as expansive as that of India's will come. But that is not the priority right now.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM,

I assure you I am not reading your post out of context. My personal views on the deal is that its good for India but bad for the world at large unless u work or own shares in the nuclear field.

I am sure down the line even Pakistan should get a similiar deal but there is no way the world will not use the AQ episode to bargain with the deal given to you. Also there is a great difference in USA holding your hands in the NSG and China holding your hand.

Not to mention Russia remaining neutral.

Regards

read post above.

 

[Always Neutral]

But then I wasn't suggesting that we would get anything 'as clean as teh NSG waiver'. You are for whatever reason assuming that I am demanding parity with India in this context, when the primary concern for Pakistan that I see is more NPP"s for addressing its power shortage and reliance on fossil fuels for power gen.

Research into the next gen. nuclear tech. is still decades away from offering practical solutions - provided Pakistan remains a democracy, continues to build up its non-proliferation record, and expands its civilian nuclear program, the time for a deal as expansive as that of India's will come. But that is not the priority right now.

Dear AM,

You sign NPT and CTBT and you will get a better deal than India but will the Govt. who signs it survive ?

Please see the chaos in India and you will note how tough that would be.

Pakistan will be isolated for years to come in the nuclear field whether you like it or not.

Regards

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Dear AM,

You sign NPT and CTBT and you will get a better deal than India but will the Govt. who signs it survive ?

Please see the chaos in India and you will note how tough that would be.

Pakistan will be isolated for years to come in the nuclear field whether you like it or not.

Regards

Again, the priorities for now are not a 'nuclear deal better or equal to India'.

When the time does come, the precedence for not signing the NPT and CTBT has been set - global power dynamics shift all the time and it would be foolish to try and predict how the chips may fall at some time in the future.

 

[nitesh]

I am not sure if the Chasma 1 contract had options for Chasma 2 built in - the contract for Chasma 2 was signed a month before China joined the NSG.

Thats close enough for the West to have raised issues, so we shall have to wait and see what happens with future discussions. I do agree that nothing earth shattering is goign to happen soon in terms of contracts being signed with China, but nonetheless, it is important that Pakistan continues to campaign for more NPP's, and its own domestic program.

exactly that is my point the contract were signed before china becoming member of NSG if it contains more number of reactors can be built then no issue typical politics will be played nd everything will be ok, but if not then getting new reactors now there will be issues so we need to see how chinese over come these.

 

[Rohit]

Indo-US deal was a big slap on the face of China, which tried to sabotage the deal behind the screens.

The should realize the power of India.

India is moving from strength to strength.

 

[Keysersoze]

Indo-US deal was a big slap on the face of China, which tried to sabotage the deal behind the screens.

The should realize the power of India.

India is moving from strength to strength.

Rohit Jingoism is nice but try to add a little more substance to your posts. And if the Chinese were trying to do things "behind the screens" how do you know about it?

 

[dr.umer]

Pak not on par with India, so no nuke deal: US - Express India

The US on Tuesday ruled out the possibility of entering into a civil nuclear deal with Pakistan, rejecting apparent demands by China in this regard.
"I don't think there is one," US Ambassador David C Mulford said when asked about the possibility of Washington having a civil nuclear deal with Islamabad on the lines of Indo-US agreement.

Ever since negotiations started on the Indo-US nuclear deal in July 2005, Pakistan has been pleading for a similar agreement citing parity with India.

China has lately started taking up Pakistan's case in a veiled manner.

At the meeting of Nuclear Suppliers Group in Vienna last week to consider waiver for India, a Chinese representative had said the 45-nation grouping should address similar ‘aspirations’ of other countries too.

Though Mulford did not elaborate, the US feels that Pakistan cannot be treated on par with India in the civil nuclear field considering its bad track record in this area.

Pakistan is known to be a source of nuclear proliferation, with even its former chief scientist A Q Khan being found guilty of indulging in this act.

To a question on China's negative role at the NSG, Mulford refused to comment, merely saying ‘In the end, they did the right thing’.

China, which had assured India that it will not create problems for the waiver at NSG, had tried to block the initiative during the grouping's meeting in Vienna last week before coming around on the issue

Zee News - Sino-Pak nuclear impossible

New Delhi, Sept 09: The US Ambassador to India, David Mulford, on Wednesday stated that a nuclear deal between China and Pakistan is not possible as the 45-member Nuclear Suppliers Group won’t grant a waiver to Islamabad.

Incidentally, government sources in India also sounded confident that the Sino-Pak nuke deal is neither viable nor possible.

Their conviction is based on Pakistan’s poor non-proliferation record and disgraced scientist A Q Khan’s complicity in it, which will virtually make it impossible for the deal to muster support at the NSG or IAEA.

The statements by US and India come in the wake of Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari’s proposed China visit next week to negotiate a nuclear deal similar to the one between India and the US.

"Pakistan is already in touch with China for the nuclear deal to meet its energy crisis and the talks would start during Zardari's visit," an official said on condition of anonymity.

Zardari, who was elected President last Saturday, will be sworn in today and has already announced that his first foreign visit will be to China.

The official said that under the proposed deal, China will supply nuclear material to Pakistan to meet its energy crisis.

"This has nothing to do with the US-India deal but that has certainly provided us a way out to meet our energy crisis," he said.

Pakistan and China have a long history of close co-operation, including in the nuclear sector. China is said to be the brain behind Pakistan’s nuclear weapons programme.

This all crap is from China & Pakistan phobic indian media. I wish it held some credibility.

Sino-Pak nuclear deal is impossible.

Nothing is impossible specially when China & Pakistan are involved.

NSG and IAEA will not approve it.

Any good reasons for that?

However, undercover activities can be done as usual.

India also did lot of undercover activities for this deal. Is it not ok if any other nation do that including Pakistan?

Indo-US deal was a big slap on the face of China, which tried to sabotage the deal behind the screens.

The should realize the power of India.

India is moving from strength to strength.

India is no match to China. Please stop wet dreaming now.

Comments like these are alright in political rallies but not when you are debating.

 

[dr.umer]

Mods,

Same issue if being debated here as well. Why don't you merge the threads?

 

[Munir]

I think there is no value left for NPT. If nations can get nuclear deals like this and still stay out of NPT then it does no longer represent anything. It is comparable with someting like getting the backing for war from UN... It is not wrong that certain figures are dead and burried but still it did kill Geneve human convention, UN and a lot more democracy principles. So, you can see these instruments as legal in reality it can be part of something quite different... Just check EEC... The European dump their products cheap on the world market and destroy lots of economies. On the other hand countries have to beg to sell theor products in Europe... You can call that legal instrument but we all know what it is... IF you go to the basic of systems you will see that there is lot of fraud... Unfortunately.

On the other hand, who would offer Pakistan something like this if they are not destroying Al Qaida/Taleban terrorists... Would you go for that if you know that the party which has the power isn't exactly democratic or reliable... Neither are the rest of mullahs or low grade politicians...

So... There is no real positive part on any side...

 

[BATMAN]

Sure Munir, just look at the industrial track record of india in places around nuclear facilities people are exposed to radioactivity and yet IAEA overlooked everything and clearly ignored the danger just because in case of any accident, it is only Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sirilanka, Oman, Qatar and Dubai will be effected most. EU and US are not in immediate vicinity.
What guarantees does IAEA provide to the surrounding countries that they will remain immune to imminent accidents at indian nuclear facilities?
What guarantees does NSG provide that nukes made of their uranium and machines will not kill humans?
I think NSG should be made liable for paying risk charges to the neighboring countries. This is law in west that population around highways, industries are compensated and population around nuclear plant gets subsidized electricity.
Open question is where the hell india is planning to dump the piles of nuclear waste?

 

[nitesh]

what are you saying here? can you please prove your points. And how does other countries are going to get effected when any incident happens in India?

NSG approval is for civilian purpose not for military.

Nuclear waste is going to be be dumped in rajasthan or any new facility can be built for that purpose.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Threads merged.